The EU v UK vaccine tussle
Discussion
Jordan210 said:
Sky News understands the European Union is going to withdraw Article 16 of the Northern Ireland Protocol after invoking it earlier today to place controls on the movement of COVID-19 vaccines
https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak/status/1355276982...
Under the terms of the WA, does the EU have to seek permission from Ireland and UK to remove Art16 provisions?https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak/status/1355276982...
paulrockliffe said:
loafer123 said:
I think the contract is realtively clear, it is just that the EU is reading it in the way they want it to work, not the way it does work.
5.1 says that the Initial Europe Doses are made in the EU
5.4 says that AZ is allowed to make Doses in the EU and UK and if it struggles to deliver and the EU offers help, they have to work with them.
For clarity, 5.4 says if AZ fails to make the European Doses in the EU or the UK....... 5.1 says that the Initial Europe Doses are made in the EU
5.4 says that AZ is allowed to make Doses in the EU and UK and if it struggles to deliver and the EU offers help, they have to work with them.
5.1 means failure to make the European Doses in the UK is inevitable, it tells AZ not to do it. So the inclusion of the UK there is superfluous as it can have no practical effect.
So read the first part of the clause as EU and the second part as EU+UK. There is a permissive effect in that following a problem best reasonable efforts that include the UK don't need the permission that other countries would, but it's not the purpose of the clause.
I'm not sure it's a drafting error as it could be deliberate to ensure EU plants are prioritised. It's just backfired when they didn't work and the UK was busy.
5.1 requires AZ to make Best Reasonable Efforts to manufacture the Initial Europe Doses within the EU.
The term "Initial Europe Doses" is defined in the Recitals, as 300m Doses of the Vaccine.
"Dose" is defined in the Definitions section 1.20.
"the Vaccine" is the nCov-19 vaccine as per header paragraph of the APA.
5.4 requires AZ to use BRE to manufacture the Vaccine at Manufacturing Sites in the EU + UK.
With then prior notice to EC required if non-EU(+UK) manufacturing facilities are needed to make the Vaccine.
UK facilities can make Vaccine to be used as part of that initial 300m doses and for any Vaccine purchased under the further 2 possible options.
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail...
They are still threatening to invoke Art16 again.
"To tackle the current lack of transparency of vaccine exports outside the EU, the Commission is putting in place a measure requiring that such exports are subject to an authorisation by Member States.
In the process of finalisation of this measure, the Commission will ensure that the Ireland / Northern Ireland Protocol is unaffected. The Commission is not triggering the safeguard clause.
Should transits of vaccines and active substances toward third countries be abused to circumvent the effects of the authorisation system, the EU will consider using all the instruments at its disposal.
In the process of finalising the document, the Commission will also be fine-tuning the decision-making process under the implementing regulation.
The final version of the implementing regulation will be published following its adoption tomorrow."
They are still threatening to invoke Art16 again.
"To tackle the current lack of transparency of vaccine exports outside the EU, the Commission is putting in place a measure requiring that such exports are subject to an authorisation by Member States.
In the process of finalisation of this measure, the Commission will ensure that the Ireland / Northern Ireland Protocol is unaffected. The Commission is not triggering the safeguard clause.
Should transits of vaccines and active substances toward third countries be abused to circumvent the effects of the authorisation system, the EU will consider using all the instruments at its disposal.
In the process of finalising the document, the Commission will also be fine-tuning the decision-making process under the implementing regulation.
The final version of the implementing regulation will be published following its adoption tomorrow."
williamp said:
Why isnt ot relevant??
Customers need to be dealt with first come, first served unless there is another reason. What reason is that?
Delusions of grandeur from the EU.Customers need to be dealt with first come, first served unless there is another reason. What reason is that?
They spent 3 months bullying AZ into a lower price point thinking they were a big enough bully to remove the supply issues that delay would create.
They f
ked up.Nickgnome said:
paulrockliffe said:
Who cares about the contract dates? They signed a contract with AZ Sweden, who have no manufacturing capacity in the UK anyway.
There's three massive fk ups in the contract, that's the biggest one. All three appear to be driven by a desire to include UK manufacture as a last resort and without anyone noticing because it's politically embarrassing to be reliant on Brexit Britain.
6.2 should bind AZ rather than the commission. 5.1 should include the UK. The contract should be with AZ UK.
You do wonder how all the legal talent in AZ and the EU end up with that document.There's three massive f
k ups in the contract, that's the biggest one. All three appear to be driven by a desire to include UK manufacture as a last resort and without anyone noticing because it's politically embarrassing to be reliant on Brexit Britain.6.2 should bind AZ rather than the commission. 5.1 should include the UK. The contract should be with AZ UK.
Sometimes it needs a third party view.
Still then we would not have a thread or big bucks being made by some.
5.1 requires AZ to make Best Reasonable Efforts to manufacture the Initial Europe Doses within the EU.
The term "Initial Europe Doses" is defined in the Recitals, as 300m Doses of the Vaccine.
"Dose" is defined in the Definitions section 1.20.
"the Vaccine" is the nCov-19 vaccine as per header paragraph of the APA.
5.4 requires AZ to use BRE to manufacture the Vaccine at Manufacturing Sites in the EU + UK.
With then prior notice to EC required if non-EU(+UK) manufacturing facilities are needed to make the Vaccine.
UK facilities can make Vaccine to be used as part of that initial 300m doses and for any Vaccine purchased under the further 2 possible options.
Edited by anonymous-user on Saturday 30th January 01:21
Edited by anonymous-user on Saturday 30th January 01:23
Coolbananas said:
Ooo not by accident, by design 
Our plan is to build the military while acquiring Scotland and NI - thereby surrounding England and then invading and using the land as one large concentration camp for all our undesirables. 
PH mentality, hey? I don't have any interest in cars anymore but it is amusing just to have a look around to see what is on display now and then for a laugh.
Re. the AZ issue, no doubt the subtleties and vagaries of the Agreement/Contract will be debated by actual legal experts at the highest courts and they will decide how this proceeds from that perspective. I would think that AZ will want to please everyone, they are after all a business with shareholders, those shareholders will want to protect their interests and they will side with whatever solution ensures the largest market and profit share for the products they make money from.
Has the EU handled this well? Not entirely so far, but early days so we'll see...most Politicians - certainly every Government - make poor judgement calls from time to time and it is how they deal with that going forward that matters albeit it is only Article 16 that I thought a step too far in this - I have no issue with the EU debating an Agreement that they believe is not being upheld properly indeed, I encourage them to challenge it.
As for mistakes, like the Article 16 threat, the UK Government, for example, get harshly criticised daily. I remain very much pro-EU and this one issue bothers me not at all in the grand scheme of things and they have done the right thing and rolled back so well done them - a spat with a business that the Courts will ultimately decide if necessary should not involve that step. It is an issue between the EU and AZ, I'm not interested in the UK at all, no more than I would be Nigeria but if it does get involved, then I would side with the best interests of the EU where I live and whose ambitions I wholly support, obviously, but one would hope for a negotiated amicable solution.
The EU have handled it very badly - like a petulant toddler through their teddy out of the pram and have shown the whole world what a bunch of gravy train riding incompetent fools trying to bulls Our plan is to build the military while acquiring Scotland and NI - thereby surrounding England and then invading and using the land as one large concentration camp for all our undesirables. PH mentality, hey? I don't have any interest in cars anymore but it is amusing just to have a look around to see what is on display now and then for a laugh.
Re. the AZ issue, no doubt the subtleties and vagaries of the Agreement/Contract will be debated by actual legal experts at the highest courts and they will decide how this proceeds from that perspective. I would think that AZ will want to please everyone, they are after all a business with shareholders, those shareholders will want to protect their interests and they will side with whatever solution ensures the largest market and profit share for the products they make money from.
Has the EU handled this well? Not entirely so far, but early days so we'll see...most Politicians - certainly every Government - make poor judgement calls from time to time and it is how they deal with that going forward that matters albeit it is only Article 16 that I thought a step too far in this - I have no issue with the EU debating an Agreement that they believe is not being upheld properly indeed, I encourage them to challenge it.
As for mistakes, like the Article 16 threat, the UK Government, for example, get harshly criticised daily. I remain very much pro-EU and this one issue bothers me not at all in the grand scheme of things and they have done the right thing and rolled back so well done them - a spat with a business that the Courts will ultimately decide if necessary should not involve that step. It is an issue between the EU and AZ, I'm not interested in the UK at all, no more than I would be Nigeria but if it does get involved, then I would side with the best interests of the EU where I live and whose ambitions I wholly support, obviously, but one would hope for a negotiated amicable solution.
t their way through something entirely of their own making.How come the Germans have secured vaccines from Pfizer when than is banned by the EU?
Invoking article 16 is a very big issue and not a mistake - they don’t deserve the power they have - the whole thing should be disbanded and each country should have its own sovereignty.
“Emmanuel Macron claimed that the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine was "quasi-ineffective" for over-65s, just hours before it was approved for use on all adults in the EU.
In a press briefing in Paris on Friday afternoon, the French president said the jab “doesn't work the way we were expecting to”.”
If this turns into the wider EU view, then the Oxford AZ problem has gone away..
I assume that the EU will be vaccinating in much the same order as everyone else. Eg the oldies first.
Therefore they need Pfizer now. Oxford AZ later in the year.
Problem solved
In a press briefing in Paris on Friday afternoon, the French president said the jab “doesn't work the way we were expecting to”.”
If this turns into the wider EU view, then the Oxford AZ problem has gone away..
I assume that the EU will be vaccinating in much the same order as everyone else. Eg the oldies first.
Therefore they need Pfizer now. Oxford AZ later in the year.
Problem solved
loafer123 said:
DayLate said:
5.1 does include UK imho. 5.4 doesn't mention Doses.
5.1 requires AZ to make Best Reasonable Efforts to manufacture the Initial Europe Doses within the EU.
The term "Initial Europe Doses" is defined in the Recitals, as 300m Doses of the Vaccine.
"Dose" is defined in the Definitions section 1.20.
"the Vaccine" is the nCov-19 vaccine as per header paragraph of the APA.
5.4 requires AZ to use BRE to manufacture the Vaccine at Manufacturing Sites in the EU + UK.
With then prior notice to EC required if non-EU(+UK) manufacturing facilities are needed to make the Vaccine.
UK facilities can make Vaccine to be used as part of that initial 300m doses and for any Vaccine purchased under the further 2 possible options.
I read it as;5.1 requires AZ to make Best Reasonable Efforts to manufacture the Initial Europe Doses within the EU.
The term "Initial Europe Doses" is defined in the Recitals, as 300m Doses of the Vaccine.
"Dose" is defined in the Definitions section 1.20.
"the Vaccine" is the nCov-19 vaccine as per header paragraph of the APA.
5.4 requires AZ to use BRE to manufacture the Vaccine at Manufacturing Sites in the EU + UK.
With then prior notice to EC required if non-EU(+UK) manufacturing facilities are needed to make the Vaccine.
UK facilities can make Vaccine to be used as part of that initial 300m doses and for any Vaccine purchased under the further 2 possible options.
Edited by anonymous-user on Saturday 30th January 01:21
Edited by anonymous-user on Saturday 30th January 01:23
5.1 says they should manufacture the Initial Doses in the Eu
5.4 says they are permitted to use manufacturing in the EU and U.K. for all stages of the contract
The implication is that 5.4 was to ensure quality and reduce supply chain risks. I don’t read it as an obligation to use U.K. plants as that directly conflicts with the very clear 5.1.
AZ is to use BRE to manufacture the Initial Europe Doses in the EU.
IED = 300m Vaccine Doses
Vaccine Doses as a single term is not defined
Vaccine is defined
Doses is defined
5.4 defines manufacture of the Vaccine to EU + UK
BRE requires AZ to use BRE to develop, manufacture, distribute etc the Vaccine.
5.4 also refers to Schedule A where the named manufacturing facilities are listed for the production of the IED. 3 of those facilities are in the UK. For PeterR's info none are in Sweden. ;-)
There is no Schedule B to add UK facilities after the IED delivery schedule has been completed.
That is rather important as Schedule A is also linked to the Initial Funding payments listed in Section 7. As the EUR 336m is only for the costs to develop, manufacture, distribute etc the IED as per Section 7 and Schedule A, why are UK facilities named as manufacturing sites for the IED in Schedule A and therefore receiving a proportion of that Initial Funding to cover the Upfront Costs of additional production capacity, supplies, staff, freight contracts, equipment etc etc if those UK facilities cannot be used to develop or manufacture the IED as per 5.1?
Stay in Bed Instead said:
Teddy Lop said:
I'm not going to say I told you so because it seems wrong to be smug when people will die because of the EU's utter incompetence, and because I didn't know for sure how or when it would happen. But I did vote brexit and said so at the time because the undemocratic and unaccountable EU sh!tshow is a runaway train that has to crash, and the crash will be smaller and we'd be better placed to help not being a part of it.
Face it, as its been said, if this was trump we'd be hearing screams for impeachment, if it were Boris he'd be stabbed by his own party, yet the eu train thunders on. Who's going to stop it.
At least I can say I'm proud to have voted brexit now. All those remainiacs that have been desperate trying to smear us as racists etc - look in the mirror - you're projecting your deluded cultist mindset on us. And right now, in this thread, you look like the blackshirts circa 1939 still ranting away "no guys seriously you got it all wrong, listen to us"
You can also argue people will die because of AZ's incompetence and failing to deliver on time.Face it, as its been said, if this was trump we'd be hearing screams for impeachment, if it were Boris he'd be stabbed by his own party, yet the eu train thunders on. Who's going to stop it.
At least I can say I'm proud to have voted brexit now. All those remainiacs that have been desperate trying to smear us as racists etc - look in the mirror - you're projecting your deluded cultist mindset on us. And right now, in this thread, you look like the blackshirts circa 1939 still ranting away "no guys seriously you got it all wrong, listen to us"
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff