20mph speed limits to be imposed to protect cyclists
Discussion
mybrainhurts said:
OpulentBob said:
I was the 20mph officer for a City Council a year ago
Please stand still for a minute...I have a
round here somewhere.OpulentBob said:
mybrainhurts said:
OpulentBob said:
I was the 20mph officer for a City Council a year ago
Please stand still for a minute...I have a
round here somewhere.
mybrainhurts said:
That's what the Nazi military said. They're still being prosecuted.....
Even Oskar Groening and he was just a book-keeper (of Auschwitz) 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-32336353
964Cup said:
Good Lord, 7 pages and no-one has yet pointed out that speed limits only apply to motorised vehicles.
Well, with the notable exception of Royal Parks, they do.
So cyclists can't break the speed limit, because there isn't one, for them.
Riding furiously is still on the statute isn't it?Well, with the notable exception of Royal Parks, they do.
So cyclists can't break the speed limit, because there isn't one, for them.
Mind you, there's no one around to enforce it.
I would imagine sales of "dash cams" and the like might be strong for a while.
964Cup said:
Good Lord, 7 pages and no-one has yet pointed out that speed limits only apply to motorised vehicles. >>> So cyclists can't break the speed limit, because there isn't one, for them.
Excellent point 
Clearly we need you 
Does cyclist's exemption apply to red traffic lights and overtaking rules as well ?
Old thread,but worth a rant!
I drive in London every day and by and large have no issue with cyclists. I don't see how this will be of benefit to them.
The spread of 20mph zones seems to be done without rhyme or reason and in the vast majority of cases completely inappropriately. As such, they are routinely ignored by everyone (except over the Tower Bridge average speed section). I can also think of a couple of roads where 20mph would be far more suitable but I note those have been left as 30s.
I've seen a couple of GATSOs in 20mph zones (formerly 30 zones) in and around Peckham but it appears they haven't been altered to trigger at the lower speed (yet!).
I drive in London every day and by and large have no issue with cyclists. I don't see how this will be of benefit to them.
The spread of 20mph zones seems to be done without rhyme or reason and in the vast majority of cases completely inappropriately. As such, they are routinely ignored by everyone (except over the Tower Bridge average speed section). I can also think of a couple of roads where 20mph would be far more suitable but I note those have been left as 30s.
I've seen a couple of GATSOs in 20mph zones (formerly 30 zones) in and around Peckham but it appears they haven't been altered to trigger at the lower speed (yet!).
Edited by g3org3y on Tuesday 18th August 06:29
bigdog3 said:
mybrainhurts said:
That's what the Nazi military said. They're still being prosecuted.....
Even Oskar Groening and he was just a book-keeper (of Auschwitz) http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-32336353
g3org3y said:
Old thread,but worth a rant!
I drive in London every day and by and large have no issue with the vast majority of cyclists. I don't see how this will be of benefit to them.
The spread of 20mph zones seems to be done without rhyme or reason and in the vast majority of cases completely inappropriately. As such, they are routinely ignored by everyone (except over the Tower Bridge average speed section). I can also think of a couple of roads where 20mph would be far more suitable but I note those have been left as 30s.
I've seen a couple of GATSOs in 20mph zones (formerly 30 zones) in and around Peckham but it appears they haven't been altered to trigger at the lower speed (yet!).
Always worth a rant but a couple of minor corrections, if I may? I drive in London every day and by and large have no issue with the vast majority of cyclists. I don't see how this will be of benefit to them.
The spread of 20mph zones seems to be done without rhyme or reason and in the vast majority of cases completely inappropriately. As such, they are routinely ignored by everyone (except over the Tower Bridge average speed section). I can also think of a couple of roads where 20mph would be far more suitable but I note those have been left as 30s.
I've seen a couple of GATSOs in 20mph zones (formerly 30 zones) in and around Peckham but it appears they haven't been altered to trigger at the lower speed (yet!).
20mph is only suitable where existing traffic is sub-25mph. If the average traffic flow is higher, then it is not within the guidelines for a 20 zone.
And most 20 zones are installed at the instruction of your local elected representative. It's not without rhyme or reason at the whim of your local car hating highways dept as many seem to think - there are set criteria. I spent a long time arguing to exclude certain roads, only to be told by people that lived on those roads that they hoped my children (and specifically MY children) that were knocked down and killed. Damned if you do...
Google "Setting Local Speed Limits", it's an easy to read DfT document which gives good advice on when and where 20mph is suitable.
OpulentBob said:
Always worth a rant but a couple of minor corrections, if I may?
20mph is only suitable where existing traffic is sub-25mph. If the average traffic flow is higher, then it is not within the guidelines for a 20 zone.
And most 20 zones are installed at the instruction of your local elected representative. It's not without rhyme or reason at the whim of your local car hating highways dept as many seem to think - there are set criteria. I spent a long time arguing to exclude certain roads, only to be told by people that lived on those roads that they hoped my children (and specifically MY children) that were knocked down and killed. Damned if you do...
Google "Setting Local Speed Limits", it's an easy to read DfT document which gives good advice on when and where 20mph is suitable.
Of course you may, always happy to hear the opinion of someone in the know. 20mph is only suitable where existing traffic is sub-25mph. If the average traffic flow is higher, then it is not within the guidelines for a 20 zone.
And most 20 zones are installed at the instruction of your local elected representative. It's not without rhyme or reason at the whim of your local car hating highways dept as many seem to think - there are set criteria. I spent a long time arguing to exclude certain roads, only to be told by people that lived on those roads that they hoped my children (and specifically MY children) that were knocked down and killed. Damned if you do...
Google "Setting Local Speed Limits", it's an easy to read DfT document which gives good advice on when and where 20mph is suitable.
I don't dispute what you say but the locations I'm thinking of in East London were in no way every sub 25mph on a regular basis unless average speeds were measured taking into account stopping at traffic lights.
In Central London when it's busy, you are lucky to reach 20mph with stop start traffic let alone exceed it. As such, a sign with 20 on it makes little difference so the limits are 'self regulating' (if you see what I mean). However, once traffic clears up the 20 zone is far too slow. Drive in the City late at night, the roads are completely clear, the pavements open and well sighted and no-one sticks to the 20mph.
I have no issues with 20 zones in principle but excessive (and seemingly inappropriate use) reduces their credibility and the likelihood of adherence. All IMVHO from a daily central London driver.
g3org3y said:
OpulentBob said:
Always worth a rant but a couple of minor corrections, if I may?
20mph is only suitable where existing traffic is sub-25mph. If the average traffic flow is higher, then it is not within the guidelines for a 20 zone.
And most 20 zones are installed at the instruction of your local elected representative. It's not without rhyme or reason at the whim of your local car hating highways dept as many seem to think - there are set criteria. I spent a long time arguing to exclude certain roads, only to be told by people that lived on those roads that they hoped my children (and specifically MY children) that were knocked down and killed. Damned if you do...
Google "Setting Local Speed Limits", it's an easy to read DfT document which gives good advice on when and where 20mph is suitable.
Of course you may, always happy to hear the opinion of someone in the know. 20mph is only suitable where existing traffic is sub-25mph. If the average traffic flow is higher, then it is not within the guidelines for a 20 zone.
And most 20 zones are installed at the instruction of your local elected representative. It's not without rhyme or reason at the whim of your local car hating highways dept as many seem to think - there are set criteria. I spent a long time arguing to exclude certain roads, only to be told by people that lived on those roads that they hoped my children (and specifically MY children) that were knocked down and killed. Damned if you do...
Google "Setting Local Speed Limits", it's an easy to read DfT document which gives good advice on when and where 20mph is suitable.
I don't dispute what you say but the locations I'm thinking of in East London were in no way every sub 25mph on a regular basis unless average speeds were measured taking into account stopping at traffic lights.
In Central London when it's busy, you are lucky to reach 20mph with stop start traffic let alone exceed it. As such, a sign with 20 on it makes little difference so the limits are 'self regulating' (if you see what I mean). However, once traffic clears up the 20 zone is far too slow. Drive in the City late at night, the roads are completely clear, the pavements open and well sighted and no-one sticks to the 20mph.
I have no issues with 20 zones in principle but excessive (and seemingly inappropriate use) reduces their credibility and the likelihood of adherence. All IMVHO from a daily central London driver.
OpulentBob said:
All fair points. Personally, I hate 20 limits. but the majority of people think of kittens and children and stuff like that and 20 seems to placate them. I would much rather have a 30 limit and observant/considerate drivers than a 20 limit and Picasso-driving mongs!
Wholeheartedly agree.
20mph limit imposed on major routes through London is neither accepted or adhered to yet - most traffic is still travelling faster. Police enforcement could be the answer to solving this disobedience.
Makes me wonder just how far this slower speeds initiative could extend but still retain any credibility. Could 10mph limit be workable or should cars be banned from city streets altogether ?
Makes me wonder just how far this slower speeds initiative could extend but still retain any credibility. Could 10mph limit be workable or should cars be banned from city streets altogether ?
bigdog3 said:
BrassMan said:
Red lights are best treated as give way signs.
Wonder how well that statement would hold up in court, after a fatal accident ? 
On a bike, you're not really on the same roads as the motorist. A car is big, it's speed is limited by the surrounding traffic, takes no effort from the driver and gives great protection. A bike is light enough to carry, it's speed is limited by the rider's fitness and gives no protection. Trying to make a bike behave like a car isn't really going to happen.
You think this is anti-motorist? You should hear what I have to say when I'm in my car.
Nikolai Petroff said:
Bicycles should be banned. They are 19th century technology and should be replaced with electrically powered personal transportation capsules. Bikes belong in a gym, not on the road. Anybody who wants his prostate stimulated by something long and hard should look elsewhere.
You fail at trollingBrassMan said:
On a bike, you're not really on the same roads as the motorist. >>> Trying to make a bike behave like a car isn't really going to happen.
Or in other words, bicycles and cars are not compatible on the same congested city streets. Is segregation necessary? And who gets eliminated - cars or bikes? Think I know the answer 
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