Cummings and goings...
Discussion
rover 623gsi said:
Unknown_User said:
paulw123 said:
Downing Street statement just makes it worse
Agreed.Whoever voted for this tory Gov must be furious right now... The country's beloved nana's and grampy's have taken the brunt of this insidious virus and all the tory's can do is close ranks and protect their 'special advisors'. Utterly despicable.
ks from the press office makes me feel fking infuriated. The absolute fking cheek of it. 
to all of this.It’s absolutely incredible and demonstrates just how untouchable a large majority makes a government feel.
Ah, seeing the spin now (the usual suspects wheeling out tweets they have been handed). It is being politicised, below the belt. Really need to take a long hard look in the mirror etc. Face it hard on I suppose.
I expect they will try to slap down any questions with rolling of eyes this evening. Which sap are they wheeling out?
I expect they will try to slap down any questions with rolling of eyes this evening. Which sap are they wheeling out?
ClaphamGT3 said:
Red 4 said:
mikeiow said:
Red 4 said:
Here's the legislation in force at the time;
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/350/regula...
Can someone explain how a 264 mile trip - as per the circumstances explained in Downing Street's sycophantic, sickening statement - fits with the law.
Clue; it doesn't.
Good job you are a solid barrister!http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/350/regula...
Can someone explain how a 264 mile trip - as per the circumstances explained in Downing Street's sycophantic, sickening statement - fits with the law.
Clue; it doesn't.
I’d say paragraph (d) gives some leeway, and technically, as worded, paragraph (l)
Don’t see anything specifying 264miles as a particular issue either
As I’ve said elsewhere, I dislike the man intensely, but being a Libra, I can sit on the fence all day long....if I had been in his shoes, and my sister, 264miles away, was best placed to look after my small offspring whilst my wife could get worse and I might too.....I would very likely have taken the same steps and been willing to defend them later.
Clearly you would not. & that’s fine: the more who stayed at home at that point in time, the better!
I don't think it fits, unfortunately for Cummings.
Pars 1 relates to reasonable excuse.
Given the journey undertaken, the fact that he was conveying someone with symptoms of coronavirus almost the entire length of England, the fact that other, simpler, local solutions to Cummings situation were available, etc etc etc and that argument is very flawed.
It seems he may have a point.
It's obvious the trip was all about him and he didn't care about any potential (or actual) consequences to anybody else.
Transporting someone with symptoms of coronavirus 264 miles in a car is reckless.
The rest of the country was being told, in no uncertain terms, not to travel at the time.
Do as I say - not as I do. Disguting, in my view. He needs to go.
Hippea said:
Brave Fart said:
I suppose if one was representing one's client, Mr Cummings, in court, one would argue that:
That may be the case for if he is being held account in a court of law.- the 264 mile point is irrelevant, since the Regulations make no mention of distance
- Mr Cummings was not unwell at the time but feared that he and/or his wife soon might be
- seeking medical assistance is expressly stated as a reasonable excuse in the Regulations
- assisting a vulnerable person (a child, in this case) is also permitted by the Regulations
- Government guidance separate to the Regulations is just that, an expression of official opinion
I think what will be more telling is his/governments trial by the media and public which will determine the outcome. Whether he broke the law doesn’t matter as much with this more whether he took the complete and utter piss.
People may believe that the law allows folk to "take the piss". That just tells you how poorly worded some laws are. Of course, if you are keen to criticise the government at every moment, like Red 4 on here, I guess the actual law doesn't much matter to you.
Red 4 said:
David Cameron described Cummings as as psychopath iirc.
It seems he may have a point.Some would say that trying to do the right thing for your child is, well, the right thing.
It's obvious the trip was all about him and he didn't care about any potential (or actual) consequences to anybody else.
OK, you were obviously there at the time then? Didn't realise you and Dominic were friends.
Transporting someone with symptoms of coronavirus 264 miles in a car is reckless.You have a different notion of reckless to me, then.
The rest of the country was being told, in no uncertain terms, not to travel at the time.The country was told - not advised, ignore that - to obey the law. Which it appears Cummings did.
Do as I say - not as I do. Disgusting, in my view. He needs to go.
Only the law commands what you must do, and it applies to all of us, equally.
It seems he may have a point.Some would say that trying to do the right thing for your child is, well, the right thing.
It's obvious the trip was all about him and he didn't care about any potential (or actual) consequences to anybody else.
OK, you were obviously there at the time then? Didn't realise you and Dominic were friends.
Transporting someone with symptoms of coronavirus 264 miles in a car is reckless.You have a different notion of reckless to me, then.
The rest of the country was being told, in no uncertain terms, not to travel at the time.The country was told - not advised, ignore that - to obey the law. Which it appears Cummings did.
Do as I say - not as I do. Disgusting, in my view. He needs to go.
Only the law commands what you must do, and it applies to all of us, equally.
Brave Fart said:
People may believe that the law allows folk to "take the piss". That just tells you how poorly worded some laws are. Of course, if you are keen to criticise the government at every moment, like Red 4 on here, I guess the actual law doesn't much matter to you.
I only criticise government when they deserve to be criticised.I have said repeatedly that I am neither a red or a blue.
My motivation is not partisan.
Take your pick of the fiascoes this government have overseen in relation to the Covid19 pandemic.
This is just the latest in a long line of embarrassments and disasters.
I'll continue to criticise, thanks.
If they were doing a good job then I really wouldn't be able to, would I ?
I know that offends you but you should take a look around.
This government is finished - and rightly so.
I see little to praise them for.
Brave Fart said:
You are probably correct to observe that the court of public opinion is more influential than the Regulations. However, that should not be the way in which we judge people. Cries of "burn the rule-breaking witch!" should be ignored in favour of "was the law broken?" in my view.
Agree with this.If Cummings survives this, then Ferguson is going to be rather understandably annoyed, I imagine. He never left his home during the reported infringements, so arguably didn’t even break the law himself. The following morning Hancock threw him under a bus and agree with the need to resign. Can’t see Hancock doing that over his master Cummings.
I think Cummings will survive this, regardless of whether the law was broken or not.
Brave Fart said:
You are probably correct to observe that the court of public opinion is more influential than the Regulations. However, that should not be the way in which we judge people. Cries of "burn the rule-breaking witch!" should be ignored in favour of "was the law broken?" in my view.
People may believe that the law allows folk to "take the piss". That just tells you how poorly worded some laws are. Of course, if you are keen to criticise the government at every moment, like Red 4 on here, I guess the actual law doesn't much matter to you.
You might also consider whether the spirit of the lockdown and associated protection of the British public (especially the more vulnerable members of our society) were ignored by Dom Cum? And whether the Gov right in closing ranks to defend their special advisor?People may believe that the law allows folk to "take the piss". That just tells you how poorly worded some laws are. Of course, if you are keen to criticise the government at every moment, like Red 4 on here, I guess the actual law doesn't much matter to you.
Red 4 said:
I only criticise government when they deserve to be criticised.
This government is finished - and rightly so.
I see little to praise them for.
Well you know wrong then Red 4. I'm not offended by your view, after all we're just two blokes wasting time on the internet. If you read my posts on Covid you'll find I'm very critical of the government too. Although I disagree that they are finished.- snip for brevity*
This government is finished - and rightly so.
I see little to praise them for.
danny0001uk1 said:
The UK prime minister's office has issued a statement saying his chief adviser, Dominic Cummings, did not break any rules when he travelled to his family home even though he was suffering with the virus. Here's the full statement:
"Owing to his wife being infected with suspected coronavirus and the high likelihood that he would himself become unwell, it was essential for Dominic Cummings to ensure his young child could be properly cared for. His sister and nieces had volunteered to help so he went to a house near to but separate from his extended family in case their help was needed. His sister shopped for the family and left everything outside. At no stage was he or his family spoken to by the police about this matter, as is being reported. His actions were in line with coronavirus guidelines. Mr Cummings believes he behaved reasonably and legally."
Must be a big rug at 10 Downing Street
I may be mistaken but I understood that if you, or anyone in your household had or showed symptoms, that the entire household should self isolate for 14 days...... "Owing to his wife being infected with suspected coronavirus and the high likelihood that he would himself become unwell, it was essential for Dominic Cummings to ensure his young child could be properly cared for. His sister and nieces had volunteered to help so he went to a house near to but separate from his extended family in case their help was needed. His sister shopped for the family and left everything outside. At no stage was he or his family spoken to by the police about this matter, as is being reported. His actions were in line with coronavirus guidelines. Mr Cummings believes he behaved reasonably and legally."
Must be a big rug at 10 Downing Street
Brave Fart said:
Red 4 said:
Can someone explain how a 264 mile trip - as per the circumstances explained in Downing Street's sycophantic, sickening statement - fits with the law.
I suppose if one was representing one's client, Mr Cummings, in court, one would argue that:- the 264 mile point is irrelevant, since the Regulations make no mention of distance
- Mr Cummings was not unwell at the time but feared that he and/or his wife soon might be
- seeking medical assistance is expressly stated as a reasonable excuse in the Regulations
- assisting a vulnerable person (a child, in this case) is also permitted by the Regulations
- Government guidance separate to the Regulations is just that, an expression of official opinion
This is how you both comply with and respect the spirit of what was in place at the time - this is how you minimise the spread of the virus.
Bit disappointing that he didn't think of that considering the position he's in, and what he would have known.
As it is, he's pretty much invincible for some reason so he'll carry on doing whatever the f
k he wants.Unknown_User said:
You might also consider whether the spirit of the lockdown and associated protection of the British public (especially the more vulnerable members of our society) were ignored by Dom Cum? And whether the Gov right in closing ranks to defend their special advisor?
Exactly!The law aspect of lockdown was always played down by the government. There was a much stronger appeal to us following guidance for the greater good, coming together etc etc
Short answer is, Cummings broke the spirit of lockdown
Hippea said:
paulw123 said:
Sambucket said:
Lots of enemies. Lots of noise.
But too much favour. So swept under carpet with Arcuri and the rest.
That may well be the case but it shouldn’t be. He should be held accountable But too much favour. So swept under carpet with Arcuri and the rest.
I’m struggling to see how they can make this go away, it’s not like they can just keep him away from the public eye to make people forget as he works in the shadows as it is.
te to fill their daily rags.
crankedup said:
It will go away when a bigger political story emerges, tabloid editors are desperate for some ste to fill their daily rags.
I remember the same remarks from people back in January about the virus.....those that expressed it was more serious were declared tinfoil hat wearing ste to fill their daily rags.t stirrers.Boris's favourite tool is Cummings. So this mess will shortly be yesterday's babywipe.
Had Cummings left home after a household positive test in the Isle of Man, then he would have been given an immediate 6 weeks in jail (along with a dozen other local Covidiots who each received a minimum of 4 weeks). Perhaps that decisive no kidding iapproach s a contributing factor to why IOM community now only has a handful of active cases.
Had Cummings left home after a household positive test in the Isle of Man, then he would have been given an immediate 6 weeks in jail (along with a dozen other local Covidiots who each received a minimum of 4 weeks). Perhaps that decisive no kidding iapproach s a contributing factor to why IOM community now only has a handful of active cases.
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