Nurses, Rail Staff and Now Driving Examiners
Discussion
Evanivitch said:
vulture1 said:
Type R Tom said:
vulture1 said:
Yes the conditions are terrible. 9am start, 11.00 break till 11.15 12.30 break till 13.30 finish at 1530
I make that 5hours 45 of work. If you added in 15:30-17:30for homework marking and prep time a pretty normal working day of nearly 8 hours.
I really hope I'm due a parrot because if not that comment is disgusting. I make that 5hours 45 of work. If you added in 15:30-17:30for homework marking and prep time a pretty normal working day of nearly 8 hours.
I'd love you to look my mate in the eye and say that after he gets home at 7pm on a Saturday night, having spent the day taking kids from deprived backgrounds, often from families with no male role models to Charlton home matches, all for 0 extra compensation.
I guess your come back will be, don't like it, quit.
Obviously it's an easy job with easy pay, because the retention rate is so appalling...
https://www.theguardian.com/education/2022/apr/11/...
My judgement is clouded by my own education and the sheer amount of abuse I saw the teachers get, up to and including physical attacks.
A couple of my friends have moved from s
t state schools to private schools and that's the only thing that has kept them in the industry. Nursing by comparison looks like a walk in the park.
ChocolateFrog said:
Teaching is one of those jobs where you literally couldn't pay me enough.
My judgement is clouded by my own education and the sheer amount of abuse I saw the teachers get, up to and including physical attacks.
A couple of my friends have moved from st state schools to private schools and that's the only thing that has kept them in the industry.
Nursing by comparison looks like a walk in the park.
I know people that are teachers in schools with very good discipline and with senior leadership teams that actually protect their staff from such abuse. Similarly, I also know the opposite, where kids run amok.My judgement is clouded by my own education and the sheer amount of abuse I saw the teachers get, up to and including physical attacks.
A couple of my friends have moved from s
t state schools to private schools and that's the only thing that has kept them in the industry. Nursing by comparison looks like a walk in the park.
But, that doesn't mean the former has an easier time. Higher achieving schools (that includes state) have higher expectations of teaching resources and quality of marking.
Teachers don't help themselves, there's very little sharing of resources which means teachers are all too often teaching the same material but having each spent hours creating material. But then it's all waste anyway because politicians are constantly messing with the curriculum and so materials are rewritten on an almost annual basis.
ChocolateFrog said:
Gecko1978 said:
I believe good starting pay is Aldi manager trainiee IIRC its 40k plus car straight out of uni, is it less stressful than being a nurse?
It's a st job. A couple of my Army mates went into Aldi's program and left pretty soon after.
IIRC it's quite a bit more than 40k, nearer 50 now I think.
Evanivitch said:
ChocolateFrog said:
Teaching is one of those jobs where you literally couldn't pay me enough.
My judgement is clouded by my own education and the sheer amount of abuse I saw the teachers get, up to and including physical attacks.
A couple of my friends have moved from st state schools to private schools and that's the only thing that has kept them in the industry.
Nursing by comparison looks like a walk in the park.
I know people that are teachers in schools with very good discipline and with senior leadership teams that actually protect their staff from such abuse. Similarly, I also know the opposite, where kids run amok.My judgement is clouded by my own education and the sheer amount of abuse I saw the teachers get, up to and including physical attacks.
A couple of my friends have moved from s
t state schools to private schools and that's the only thing that has kept them in the industry. Nursing by comparison looks like a walk in the park.
But, that doesn't mean the former has an easier time. Higher achieving schools (that includes state) have higher expectations of teaching resources and quality of marking.
Teachers don't help themselves, there's very little sharing of resources which means teachers are all too often teaching the same material but having each spent hours creating material. But then it's all waste anyway because politicians are constantly messing with the curriculum and so materials are rewritten on an almost annual basis.
y customers as well as all the staff's issues.vulture1 said:
I mean anything primary 1-7 how can a lesson plan change from year to year. save your planning from year 1 tweek what didnt work a bit rinse and repeat and then be better at the otehr parts of the job. Academy level different I suppose. Discipline becoming a bigger problem but no worse than your Mcdonalds assistant manager having to deal with y customers as well as all the staff's issues.
Because the curriculum changes all too often...y customers as well as all the staff's issues.my memories of primary 1-7 math was just adding a zero onto each sum as you went up the years. ie 10s 100s 1000s etc. A bit of (now useless) long division.
Spelling hasn't changed in forever neither has reading. Pretty sure writing is the same too.
Kids are probably less disciplined with bigger social disorders and conditions but that is the same for anyone doing any job nowadays.
Spelling hasn't changed in forever neither has reading. Pretty sure writing is the same too.
Kids are probably less disciplined with bigger social disorders and conditions but that is the same for anyone doing any job nowadays.
vulture1 said:
my memories of primary 1-7 math was just adding a zero onto each sum as you went up the years. ie 10s 100s 1000s etc. A bit of (now useless) long division.
Spelling hasn't changed in forever neither has reading. Pretty sure writing is the same too.
If you don't have a clue about the subject being discussed sometimes it's worth just not posting, think about that in future.Spelling hasn't changed in forever neither has reading. Pretty sure writing is the same too.
Evanivitch said:
vulture1 said:
my memories of primary 1-7 math was just adding a zero onto each sum as you went up the years. ie 10s 100s 1000s etc. A bit of (now useless) long division.
Spelling hasn't changed in forever neither has reading. Pretty sure writing is the same too.
If you don't have a clue about the subject being discussed sometimes it's worth just not posting, think about that in future.Spelling hasn't changed in forever neither has reading. Pretty sure writing is the same too.
part of the subject is how how difficult a teachers job is. There have been zero changes in the learing of basic math reading/ writing since Latin was dropped or the calculator was invented enmass.
Gecko1978 said:
ChocolateFrog said:
Gecko1978 said:
I believe good starting pay is Aldi manager trainiee IIRC its 40k plus car straight out of uni, is it less stressful than being a nurse?
It's a st job. A couple of my Army mates went into Aldi's program and left pretty soon after.
IIRC it's quite a bit more than 40k, nearer 50 now I think.
We need more jobs like this - it shows the rest of the staff what hard work is, and how they can improve their own situation.
LukeBrown66 said:
Driving examiners is utterly pathetic, basically taking the whole of December off from next weekend, they should be utterly ashamed of themselves, it is a total captive audience, what have they really got to bh about?
Yeah, get the army in or robots or sack ‘em all. Too many managers - that’s their problem. Would never happen in Thatcher’s day I can tell you. Who needs to pass a test these days anyway? Totally outmoded and people will adapt. h about?Where’s me Werthers Originals? I need a lie down.
vulture1 said:
Evanivitch said:
vulture1 said:
my memories of primary 1-7 math was just adding a zero onto each sum as you went up the years. ie 10s 100s 1000s etc. A bit of (now useless) long division.
Spelling hasn't changed in forever neither has reading. Pretty sure writing is the same too.
If you don't have a clue about the subject being discussed sometimes it's worth just not posting, think about that in future.Spelling hasn't changed in forever neither has reading. Pretty sure writing is the same too.
part of the subject is how how difficult a teachers job is. There have been zero changes in the learing of basic math reading/ writing since Latin was dropped or the calculator was invented enmass.
glazbagun said:
vulture1 said:
Evanivitch said:
vulture1 said:
my memories of primary 1-7 math was just adding a zero onto each sum as you went up the years. ie 10s 100s 1000s etc. A bit of (now useless) long division.
Spelling hasn't changed in forever neither has reading. Pretty sure writing is the same too.
If you don't have a clue about the subject being discussed sometimes it's worth just not posting, think about that in future.Spelling hasn't changed in forever neither has reading. Pretty sure writing is the same too.
part of the subject is how how difficult a teachers job is. There have been zero changes in the learing of basic math reading/ writing since Latin was dropped or the calculator was invented enmass.
Vulture has gone surprisingly quiet since this was pointed out
My wife retrained from accountancy into teaching, and is now nqt + 2. Probably works 50-55 hours a week
There are about 10% of teachers who put in bare minimum and about 50% who go above and beyond to tailor lessons to kids, and make it engaging.
I do agree lesson planning is inefficient, as most of the extra hours is reworking inadequate plans from last year, or that colleagues have done (ie trying to get an expanded noun phrase into a sentence, yet all the examples given are adjectives etc)
Tbh, where the pressure is is the teaching assistant level.
What used to be parent helpers, who cut things out and stuck them into books, have now become defacto teachers - leading the class during planning time, carrying out interventions, babysitting send kids who shouldn't be in mainstream.
They are the ones getting a pittance, and stacking shelves for Lidl would be far better paid. They generally do it because they care about children's educations.
Note: it is this tier that is about to be axed due to unfunded inflation costs.
Without teaching support, teaching standards would collapse. I know pH loves a military similie, so I think of it as having an aircraft carrier or battleship deployed somewhere, but not investing in a fleet to support it.
It could only achieve a fraction of its potential capability. That's the same with teachers and teaching assistants.
(Yes, I have just compared my wife to a battleship!)
There are about 10% of teachers who put in bare minimum and about 50% who go above and beyond to tailor lessons to kids, and make it engaging.
I do agree lesson planning is inefficient, as most of the extra hours is reworking inadequate plans from last year, or that colleagues have done (ie trying to get an expanded noun phrase into a sentence, yet all the examples given are adjectives etc)
Tbh, where the pressure is is the teaching assistant level.
What used to be parent helpers, who cut things out and stuck them into books, have now become defacto teachers - leading the class during planning time, carrying out interventions, babysitting send kids who shouldn't be in mainstream.
They are the ones getting a pittance, and stacking shelves for Lidl would be far better paid. They generally do it because they care about children's educations.
Note: it is this tier that is about to be axed due to unfunded inflation costs.
Without teaching support, teaching standards would collapse. I know pH loves a military similie, so I think of it as having an aircraft carrier or battleship deployed somewhere, but not investing in a fleet to support it.
It could only achieve a fraction of its potential capability. That's the same with teachers and teaching assistants.
(Yes, I have just compared my wife to a battleship!)
Ian Geary said:
My wife retrained from accountancy into teaching, and is now nqt + 2. Probably works 50-55 hours a week
There are about 10% of teachers who put in bare minimum and about 50% who go above and beyond to tailor lessons to kids, and make it engaging.
I do agree lesson planning is inefficient, as most of the extra hours is reworking inadequate plans from last year, or that colleagues have done (ie trying to get an expanded noun phrase into a sentence, yet all the examples given are adjectives etc)
Tbh, where the pressure is is the teaching assistant level.
What used to be parent helpers, who cut things out and stuck them into books, have now become defacto teachers - leading the class during planning time, carrying out interventions, babysitting send kids who shouldn't be in mainstream.
They are the ones getting a pittance, and stacking shelves for Lidl would be far better paid. They generally do it because they care about children's educations.
My mum has been a TA for over 30 years, starting off, as you say, as a parent to help out. For half of that, she has been a "teacher" and has since retired twice but gone back to help due to sickness and other reasons at the school on the proviso that she wouldn't be a teacher. Due to retire again in Feb, till they ask her to come back and help out again!There are about 10% of teachers who put in bare minimum and about 50% who go above and beyond to tailor lessons to kids, and make it engaging.
I do agree lesson planning is inefficient, as most of the extra hours is reworking inadequate plans from last year, or that colleagues have done (ie trying to get an expanded noun phrase into a sentence, yet all the examples given are adjectives etc)
Tbh, where the pressure is is the teaching assistant level.
What used to be parent helpers, who cut things out and stuck them into books, have now become defacto teachers - leading the class during planning time, carrying out interventions, babysitting send kids who shouldn't be in mainstream.
They are the ones getting a pittance, and stacking shelves for Lidl would be far better paid. They generally do it because they care about children's educations.
ChocolateFrog said:
Evanivitch said:
vulture1 said:
Type R Tom said:
vulture1 said:
Yes the conditions are terrible. 9am start, 11.00 break till 11.15 12.30 break till 13.30 finish at 1530
I make that 5hours 45 of work. If you added in 15:30-17:30for homework marking and prep time a pretty normal working day of nearly 8 hours.
I really hope I'm due a parrot because if not that comment is disgusting. I make that 5hours 45 of work. If you added in 15:30-17:30for homework marking and prep time a pretty normal working day of nearly 8 hours.
I'd love you to look my mate in the eye and say that after he gets home at 7pm on a Saturday night, having spent the day taking kids from deprived backgrounds, often from families with no male role models to Charlton home matches, all for 0 extra compensation.
I guess your come back will be, don't like it, quit.
Obviously it's an easy job with easy pay, because the retention rate is so appalling...
https://www.theguardian.com/education/2022/apr/11/...
My judgement is clouded by my own education and the sheer amount of abuse I saw the teachers get, up to and including physical attacks.
A couple of my friends have moved from s
t state schools to private schools and that's the only thing that has kept them in the industry. Nursing by comparison looks like a walk in the park.
The idea that they have an easy job is insulting enough to be ignored. But I agree with the sentiment - I couldn't be one.
Typical work day is get to school between 7am and 745am (expectation to be there before 8am to get things set up before kids arrive).
Work through all breaks.
When kids leave you can actually start work of marking, planning, attending department meetings, doing admin.
Leave school at kick-out time of 6pm.
More of a problem for primary teaching, but typically work in the evening of 5 to 6 days a week. The little kids bring TONNES of marking as everything has to be evidenced on their progress. So each kid has a learning journey that has to have an audit-trail and that requires marking most days. And the teacher will have >30 kids. When I was with her, I did all the house chores (including all cooking) as she would be working through, stopping for food, then continuing. Finally pen down at around 9pm. Every work day. Every week. Every year. Over the 4 years we were togehter, I'd say an average of 60-65hrs a week working.
With secondary teaching the hours aren't so bad - the marking requirements actually reduce, but the kids are more stressful to deal with. My partner is dealing with one set of girls right now who are causing her to have to cry to let out the stress/frustration between classes. Kids who decide they just don't want to cooperate, and who have belligerent parents, really can run rough-shod over teachers and make their life misery. Average must be around 50hrs a week.
All for ~£30k (with a masters education).
No thanks.
GroundEffect said:
For some reason I am drawn to teachers as partners. My partner (of 5 years) is a secondary teacher in Spanish (she is Spanish) at a top grammar school. My ex (of 4 years) was a primary school teacher/head of department at a really challenging school in one of the most deprived parts of Basildon.
The idea that they have an easy job is insulting enough to be ignored. But I agree with the sentiment - I couldn't be one.
Typical work day is get to school between 7am and 745am (expectation to be there before 8am to get things set up before kids arrive).
Work through all breaks.
When kids leave you can actually start work of marking, planning, attending department meetings, doing admin.
Leave school at kick-out time of 6pm.
More of a problem for primary teaching, but typically work in the evening of 5 to 6 days a week. The little kids bring TONNES of marking as everything has to be evidenced on their progress. So each kid has a learning journey that has to have an audit-trail and that requires marking most days. And the teacher will have >30 kids. When I was with her, I did all the house chores (including all cooking) as she would be working through, stopping for food, then continuing. Finally pen down at around 9pm. Every work day. Every week. Every year. Over the 4 years we were togehter, I'd say an average of 60-65hrs a week working.
With secondary teaching the hours aren't so bad - the marking requirements actually reduce, but the kids are more stressful to deal with. My partner is dealing with one set of girls right now who are causing her to have to cry to let out the stress/frustration between classes. Kids who decide they just don't want to cooperate, and who have belligerent parents, really can run rough-shod over teachers and make their life misery. Average must be around 50hrs a week.
All for ~£30k (with a masters education).
No thanks.
So simply how much should they get paid and how should it be funded.The idea that they have an easy job is insulting enough to be ignored. But I agree with the sentiment - I couldn't be one.
Typical work day is get to school between 7am and 745am (expectation to be there before 8am to get things set up before kids arrive).
Work through all breaks.
When kids leave you can actually start work of marking, planning, attending department meetings, doing admin.
Leave school at kick-out time of 6pm.
More of a problem for primary teaching, but typically work in the evening of 5 to 6 days a week. The little kids bring TONNES of marking as everything has to be evidenced on their progress. So each kid has a learning journey that has to have an audit-trail and that requires marking most days. And the teacher will have >30 kids. When I was with her, I did all the house chores (including all cooking) as she would be working through, stopping for food, then continuing. Finally pen down at around 9pm. Every work day. Every week. Every year. Over the 4 years we were togehter, I'd say an average of 60-65hrs a week working.
With secondary teaching the hours aren't so bad - the marking requirements actually reduce, but the kids are more stressful to deal with. My partner is dealing with one set of girls right now who are causing her to have to cry to let out the stress/frustration between classes. Kids who decide they just don't want to cooperate, and who have belligerent parents, really can run rough-shod over teachers and make their life misery. Average must be around 50hrs a week.
All for ~£30k (with a masters education).
No thanks.
Gecko1978 said:
GroundEffect said:
For some reason I am drawn to teachers as partners. My partner (of 5 years) is a secondary teacher in Spanish (she is Spanish) at a top grammar school. My ex (of 4 years) was a primary school teacher/head of department at a really challenging school in one of the most deprived parts of Basildon.
The idea that they have an easy job is insulting enough to be ignored. But I agree with the sentiment - I couldn't be one.
Typical work day is get to school between 7am and 745am (expectation to be there before 8am to get things set up before kids arrive).
Work through all breaks.
When kids leave you can actually start work of marking, planning, attending department meetings, doing admin.
Leave school at kick-out time of 6pm.
More of a problem for primary teaching, but typically work in the evening of 5 to 6 days a week. The little kids bring TONNES of marking as everything has to be evidenced on their progress. So each kid has a learning journey that has to have an audit-trail and that requires marking most days. And the teacher will have >30 kids. When I was with her, I did all the house chores (including all cooking) as she would be working through, stopping for food, then continuing. Finally pen down at around 9pm. Every work day. Every week. Every year. Over the 4 years we were togehter, I'd say an average of 60-65hrs a week working.
With secondary teaching the hours aren't so bad - the marking requirements actually reduce, but the kids are more stressful to deal with. My partner is dealing with one set of girls right now who are causing her to have to cry to let out the stress/frustration between classes. Kids who decide they just don't want to cooperate, and who have belligerent parents, really can run rough-shod over teachers and make their life misery. Average must be around 50hrs a week.
All for ~£30k (with a masters education).
No thanks.
So simply how much should they get paid and how should it be funded.The idea that they have an easy job is insulting enough to be ignored. But I agree with the sentiment - I couldn't be one.
Typical work day is get to school between 7am and 745am (expectation to be there before 8am to get things set up before kids arrive).
Work through all breaks.
When kids leave you can actually start work of marking, planning, attending department meetings, doing admin.
Leave school at kick-out time of 6pm.
More of a problem for primary teaching, but typically work in the evening of 5 to 6 days a week. The little kids bring TONNES of marking as everything has to be evidenced on their progress. So each kid has a learning journey that has to have an audit-trail and that requires marking most days. And the teacher will have >30 kids. When I was with her, I did all the house chores (including all cooking) as she would be working through, stopping for food, then continuing. Finally pen down at around 9pm. Every work day. Every week. Every year. Over the 4 years we were togehter, I'd say an average of 60-65hrs a week working.
With secondary teaching the hours aren't so bad - the marking requirements actually reduce, but the kids are more stressful to deal with. My partner is dealing with one set of girls right now who are causing her to have to cry to let out the stress/frustration between classes. Kids who decide they just don't want to cooperate, and who have belligerent parents, really can run rough-shod over teachers and make their life misery. Average must be around 50hrs a week.
All for ~£30k (with a masters education).
No thanks.
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