Lots of angry people today.

[Gandahar]

SeeFive said:

Gandahar said:

Amazingly with this referendum we will be making Conservatives, Labour and the look at reform

From the EU itself

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getDoc.do?pubR...

Stresses that the current challenges require reflection on the future of the EU: there is a
need to reform the Union and make it better and more democratic

You don't say ! Shame it took a political tsunami for it to dawn....

No no no, you're not listening. The EU would be saying all of that and more if we had voted to remain. They are big cuddly benefactors just looking to help everyone, honest - ask any remainer.

Good point.

When you say the EU you mean Germany, France and Italy of course. Those are the club within the club who are meeting today. The rest of the "little countries" get a bit of a say later...

[Gandahar]

Strocky said:

don4l said:

Fantastic news for British exporters.

And as the UK is a net importer, how does that work?

Well it means we will export more and import less. So in future we might be a net exporter.

Is that bad?

[Einion Yrth]

sealtt said:

a 50.3% to 49.7% win for remain.

Which would, of course, be hailed as a decisive victory.

[maffski]

jamoor said:

...So people really didn't know what they were voting for when voting out, except it would change things.

Invigorating isn't it

lostkiwi said:

Not until its all signed. At the moment its still a possibility. Until the European parliament ratify it is worth nothing.
It also took the Canadians 7 years to get to this point. We don't have 7 years before article 50 kicks in.

But we do have a couple of years to agree nice simple trade deals with all those nations that were having such trouble getting deals with the 28 vested interests of the EU.

[Murph7355]

Kermit power said:

Nevertheless, at every step, it was a democratically elected British government with a mandate from the people that signed the treaties.

And the democratic process has resulted in a democratic referendum as a direct result of the decisions made by those governments since 1975. Enough people felt those decisions weren't good enough to prompt a need for the vote. And enough people feel that we haven't been best served by being part of the EU hence we are now starting the process of untangling ourselves from it.

No one has suggested our democracy is perfect. But it's not been improved by an additional layer of bureaucracy over it.

Maybe the electorate won't be quite so easily conned in future and will hold our own government to account more in future. Then again....

[Murph7355]

SeeFive said:

And everyone seemed to be suggesting that change was required (change from within).

So, your missus is playing the field to her own rules and ignoring you, and you are effectively making a major contribution to her doing that by helping finance it. You Work at it with her for 40 years, and suddenly realise that despite your protestations about her behaviour, she is actually moving further away from your life goals and dreams, holding you back in many ways and you have less say in the relationship than when you took your vows.

What do you do?

Is "shoot her with my shotgun and bury her in the garden" the right answer?

[TeamD]

lostkiwi said:

pgh said:

lostkiwi said:

That agreement is unsigned and has not been approved by the EU member states.

So it's a fresh example of what is possible in negotiating with the current day EU - perfect.

Not until its all signed. At the moment its still a possibility. Until the European parliament ratify it is worth nothing.
It also took the Canadians 7 years to get to this point. We don't have 7 years before article 50 kicks in.

And this makes the EU good how?

Just shows what a bureaucratic dinosaur the whole shower is.

[Strocky]

Gandahar said:

Well it means we will export more and import less. So in future we might be a net exporter.

Is that bad?

Who gets to push the shiny button to get this to happen?

[Tuna]

sealtt said:

16,141,241 remain
17,410,742 leave

4% of remain = 484,237
7% of leave = 1,218,751

remain + 7% of leave - 4% of remain = 16,875,755
leave + 4% of remain - 7% of leave = 16,676,228

remain now 16,875,755 from 16,141,241 = +734,515 = +4.5% change
leave now 16,676,228 from 17,410,742 = -734,514 = -4.2% change

In terms of totals.

Total voters = 33,551,983
Total voters changing opinions according to poll = 1,702,988 = 5.1%
Total net shift to remain = 2.2%

According to the poll, remain would now win with a majority of 199,527 people = 0.6% of voters, i.e. a 50.3% to 49.7% win for remain.

Give it a week or two for the hysteria to die down and that very narrow margin would be gone. So yeah, let's have another referendum shall we?

[mattmurdock]

TeamD said:

And this makes the EU good how?

Just shows what a bureaucratic dinosaur the whole shower is.

It doesn't make the EU good.

It just shows the reality of all the people claiming we will magically arrange efficient, free trade agreements with the EU without any conditions at all around free movement of people.

If the EU is a bureaucratic dinosaur, why is it suddenly going to change all that for us?

[SeeFive]

Murph7355 said:

Is "shoot her with my shotgun and bury her in the garden" the right answer?

As good an idea as that sounds, I would suggest that a legal divorce is probably a better way to go. And even then, all her mates and family would be shouting and crying that you are the bd who decided to Brexit divorce her.

[SpeckledJim]

maffski said:

jamoor said:

...So people really didn't know what they were voting for when voting out, except it would change things.

Invigorating isn't it

lostkiwi said:

Not until its all signed. At the moment its still a possibility. Until the European parliament ratify it is worth nothing.
It also took the Canadians 7 years to get to this point. We don't have 7 years before article 50 kicks in.

But we do have a couple of years to agree nice simple trade deals with all those nations that were having such trouble getting deals with the 28 vested interests of the EU.

And with all due respect to the Canadians, there isn't very much business to be done.

The job losses across Europe if the EU don't keep us as good customers will result in lots of unexpected job losses at the top of various European parliaments.

Europrole boots will meet Euroelite backsides, and the Euroelites are grraaadduaallllly realising as much.

The brinksmanship will be fun to watch, but the deals WILL get done.

[Hosenbugler]

Jinx said:

S. Gonzales Esq. said:

That depends how easily worried you are.

The Today Programme this morning quoted a survey indicating that 7% of Leave voters and 4% of Remain voters would change sides. A net 3% change would give Leave a 400k majority.

Because surveys and polls have been so reliable.......

Yup, the polls were so accurate , no reason to beleive this one either. Fact is there is an awful lot of desperate remainers, the rigged .Gov online petition shows that amply. As well as the hysterics they are exhibiting.

[maffski]

SpeckledJim said:

And with all due respect to the Canadians, there isn't very much business to be done.

The job losses across Europe if the EU don't keep us as good customers will result in lots of unexpected job losses at the top of various European parliaments.

Europrole boots will meet Euroelite backsides, and the Euroelites are grraaadduaallllly realising as much.

The brinksmanship will be fun to watch, but the deals WILL get done.

Indeed. The unelected might say it will not be amicable divorce, but others will see it differently; jobs are votes. However it will do our position no harm to get off our backsides and start engaging with the rest of the world before then.

[gooner1]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendu...

Lord King blames,Cameron, Osborne,and the Remain Campaign.

[Kermit power]

pgh said:

I take it he forgot to mention what the Canadians are paying per-capita for access to the EU market (without freedom of movement). Funny that

Would that be the agreement that doesn't provide a financial passport to Canada's financial institutions? Yeah, that would be great for the UK!

[Leicester Loyal]

gooner1 said:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendu...

Lord King blames,Cameron, Osborne,and the Remain Campaign.

He's right. Add the EU to that as well, they thought the Remain campaign would easily win and we'd just fall back in line and do as we were told for the foreseeable future.

[dandarez]

gooner1 said:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendu...

Lord King blames,Cameron, Osborne,and the Remain Campaign.

He also sensibly said share volatility was 'No reason for any of us to panic.'

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendu...

Can we now also get rid of the useless Carney whose forecasts have almost all been wrong, and have a Brit back at the helm of the BoE, not a Canadian.

While at it, kick out another Canadian, Moya Greene, as head of Royal Mail and have a Brit.

Are we that f. useless that no Brit is qualified enough for these roles?

Fresh start needed. In many areas.

[gooner1]

dandarez said:

He also sensibly said share volatility was 'No reason for any of us to panic.'

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendu...

Can we now also get rid of the useless Carney whose forecasts have almost all been wrong, and have a Brit back at the helm of the BoE, not a Canadian.

While at it, kick out another Canadian, Moya Greene, as head of Royal Mail and have a Brit.

Are we that f. useless that no Brit is qualified enough for these roles?

Fresh start needed. In many areas.

Come, come, no xenophia, please.

[stupidbutkeen]

sealtt said:

16,141,241 remain
17,410,742 leave

4% of remain = 484,237
7% of leave = 1,218,751

remain + 7% of leave - 4% of remain = 16,875,755
leave + 4% of remain - 7% of leave = 16,676,228

remain now 16,875,755 from 16,141,241 = +734,515 = +4.5% change
leave now 16,676,228 from 17,410,742 = -734,514 = -4.2% change

In terms of totals.

Total voters = 33,551,983
Total voters changing opinions according to poll = 1,702,988 = 5.1%
Total net shift to remain = 2.2%

According to the poll, remain would now win with a majority of 199,527 people = 0.6% of voters, i.e. a 50.3% to 49.7% win for remain.

your maths are wrong. 4% of 16,141,241 is 645,648.
7% of 17,410,742 is indeed 1,218,751
so now the sums are
leave 17,410,742 - 1,218,751 = 16,191,991 + 645,648 final total= 16,837,639

remain 16,141,241 - 645,648 = 15,495,593 + 1,218,751 + final total 16,714,350

leave still win

I think you only took 3% of the remain side instead of the 4%, You do know its the leave side are the ones that are uneducated.

Edited by stupidbutkeen on Monday 27th June 14:52