Rishi Sunak - Prime Minister
Discussion
Mr Penguin said:
I don't think he should have taken her. Parties are naturally coalitions and some are in their parties for non-ideological reasons but there are limits to how broad a church they can go. It also seems to have ruffled a lot of feathers in the Labour benches and will cause problems for Starmer after the election. He can get away with it for now because he is leading in the polls and we are a few months from the election.
I don’t think that’s how it works. The positives of taking her outweigh the negatives, key battleground issues like boats, borders and housing are a big election plus for Labour. I’m sure it won’t all be plain sailing but I very much doubt Starmer will come to regret his decision. AIUI she’s not going to stand at the next election. Blue62 said:
I don’t think that’s how it works. The positives of taking her outweigh the negatives, key battleground issues like boats, borders and housing are a big election plus for Labour. I’m sure it won’t all be plain sailing but I very much doubt Starmer will come to regret his decision. AIUI she’s not going to stand at the next election.
What are the positives? All I see is the papers and Labour MPs saying they are unhappy with it. This is only six or seven hours after being announced and now the press have an obvious set of questions to catch out any Labour MPs and cause mischief.Mr Penguin said:
What are the positives? All I see is the papers and Labour MPs saying they are unhappy with it. This is only six or seven hours after being announced and now the press have an obvious set of questions to catch out any Labour MPs and cause mischief.
The positive is that Labour dominate the (political) news headlines for a day or so. It's a positive story for Labour. It's another piece of 'evidence' which supports their narrative about the current government "failing" blah blah. And they don't need to worry about her real views as she is standing down. And it's another set of questions for Sunak, which he would rather not deal with.Putting it another way, in the political grind you are either applying pressure or taking pressure. This is Labour applying pressure.
The grumblings of a few MPs are irrelevant in the national context, particular at this phase before an election.
EddieSteadyGo said:
It's a positive story for Labour.
Yet these are the headlines from across the spectrum:The Times: "Elphicke defection stokes anger in Labour ranks" and "Why this defection is awkward for Labour too" and "Elphicke’s fireworks display risks burning down the house"
The Guardian: "Keir Starmer sparks Labour anger with decision to admit Natalie Elphicke"
Independent: "Labour face angry backlash over Tory defector’s women’s rights record" and "Natalie Elphicke’s defection was handled with brutal efficiency"
FT: "Tory MP Elphicke defects to Labour in fresh blow to Sunak"
Telegraph: "Lord Kinnock leads backlash against Starmer over Tory defection"
Some others which are matter of fact, but the articles mostly talking about the impact on Labour, what she said about Sunak seems to be getting buried (although it was prominent for the first hour or so).
EddieSteadyGo said:
It's another piece of 'evidence' which supports their narrative about the current government "failing" blah blah. And they don't need to worry about her real views as she is standing down.
Stewie has already 'leaked' the journalists' questions for the next couple of days. Defections tend to be forgotten about after a week or so so he may have lost the short term bump that it would normally give. It just seems like an unforced error to me. Not just exposing rifts but creating a completely unnecessary one.James6112 said:
S600BSB said:
One should forgive and support rehabilitation when people genuinely see the error of their ways. Even if they are at the loony end of the political spectrum.
On that note, Steve Baker next?Jacob Rees-Mogg will discover his fluffy side and defect to the Greens later in the week
Mr Penguin said:
Yet these are the headlines from across the spectrum:
The Times: "Elphicke defection stokes anger in Labour ranks" and "Why this defection is awkward for Labour too" and "Elphicke’s fireworks display risks burning down the house"
The Guardian: "Keir Starmer sparks Labour anger with decision to admit Natalie Elphicke"
Independent: "Labour face angry backlash over Tory defector’s women’s rights record" and "Natalie Elphicke’s defection was handled with brutal efficiency"
FT: "Tory MP Elphicke defects to Labour in fresh blow to Sunak"
Telegraph: "Lord Kinnock leads backlash against Starmer over Tory defection"
Some others which are matter of fact, but the articles mostly talking about the impact on Labour, what she said about Sunak seems to be getting buried (although it was prominent for the first hour or so).
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The problem with most of those headlines is that they are looking at the situation from their own perspective. But what matters politically is the perspective of the average voter. And that's where it wins. The Times: "Elphicke defection stokes anger in Labour ranks" and "Why this defection is awkward for Labour too" and "Elphicke’s fireworks display risks burning down the house"
The Guardian: "Keir Starmer sparks Labour anger with decision to admit Natalie Elphicke"
Independent: "Labour face angry backlash over Tory defector’s women’s rights record" and "Natalie Elphicke’s defection was handled with brutal efficiency"
FT: "Tory MP Elphicke defects to Labour in fresh blow to Sunak"
Telegraph: "Lord Kinnock leads backlash against Starmer over Tory defection"
Some others which are matter of fact, but the articles mostly talking about the impact on Labour, what she said about Sunak seems to be getting buried (although it was prominent for the first hour or so).
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BTW, I wish it wasn't so. I wish I could dunk on it. But annoyingly it makes sense.
biggbn said:
Those criticising Starmer for taking this MP surely see that it's all PR. She was quite a right wing voice and she is not only criticising the government, she is willing to join his version of Labour, indicating to Joe and Gemima Public who are wringing their hands about Labour that it is a broadchurch, all are welcome, come on in, the waters lovely...and some of it is blue. He'd have been bonkers to refuse her.
Exactly. Starmer has welcomed her for the same reason that Gordon Brown welcomed Margaret Thatcher into Downing Street and stood smiling with her for the cameras. It's sending a message that Labour is now the default party even for right-wingers.A poster mentions poor judgement
Another mentions Trojan Horse
I think its both I think she has resigned to infiltrate the enemy. It's got the feel of a Boris masterstroke to it
Sir Keir may be being taken for a ride. I would advise caution and to get this woman on a lie detector test to see if she now shares Labour values or not.
Admittedly they may have to wire up Sir Keir as well to check him out but its best to be on the safe side.
Another mentions Trojan Horse
I think its both I think she has resigned to infiltrate the enemy. It's got the feel of a Boris masterstroke to it
Sir Keir may be being taken for a ride. I would advise caution and to get this woman on a lie detector test to see if she now shares Labour values or not.
Admittedly they may have to wire up Sir Keir as well to check him out but its best to be on the safe side.
MC Bodge said:
James6112 said:
S600BSB said:
One should forgive and support rehabilitation when people genuinely see the error of their ways. Even if they are at the loony end of the political spectrum.
On that note, Steve Baker next?Jacob Rees-Mogg will discover his fluffy side and defect to the Greens later in the week
Mr Penguin said:
What are the positives? All I see is the papers and Labour MPs saying they are unhappy with it. This is only six or seven hours after being announced and now the press have an obvious set of questions to catch out any Labour MPs and cause mischief.
I’m honestly not sure if you’re serious or doing a ‘anonymous user’ thing. You can’t see the positives for Labour in a right wing loon crossing the house, one who has publicly chided the government for incompetence on some of the key election issues? Are you the biscuit or the Batman character? I’m only joking by the way, let’s not take any of this too seriously.
Meanwhile some policies, changes etc are being looked into that IMO do benefit people.
It may seem unimportant and maybe something to sneer at but this kind of stuff is the sort of thing that does benefit folk
I may well be serious
The Environment Department (Defra) announced on Friday that the same materials will be collected from homes, workplaces and schools across the country in order to end the confusion caused by councils operating different systems.
Under the new rules, people will be able to put plastic, metal, glass, paper and card in one bin.
Councils will also be able to co-collect food and garden waste.
Defra said the new measures will mean households no longer have to check which materials their specific council will accept for recycling.
It may seem unimportant and maybe something to sneer at but this kind of stuff is the sort of thing that does benefit folk
I may well be serious
The Environment Department (Defra) announced on Friday that the same materials will be collected from homes, workplaces and schools across the country in order to end the confusion caused by councils operating different systems.
Under the new rules, people will be able to put plastic, metal, glass, paper and card in one bin.
Councils will also be able to co-collect food and garden waste.
Defra said the new measures will mean households no longer have to check which materials their specific council will accept for recycling.
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