Why is Cannabis still illegal?
Discussion
Davos123 said:
GOATever said:
Yes, which makes it even more bizarre that our lot haven’t worked it out yet.
We are already profiting from taxing legal weed. British sugar and GW pharmaceuticals are making a s
t tonne of money from the legal market abroad.Norman Baker, another ex-Drugs chief, has recently become patron of the charity that lobbies for medicinal-use decriminalisation.
GOATever said:
Lannister902 said:
The thought of a 'recreational' drug being taken, and half the population being stoned out their heads roaming the streets like zombies fills me with dread.
Walk down Camden High street on a Saturday at midday. It doesn’t need drugs.Irrespective it's significantly more pleasant than drunks.
Biggest pet peeve I have with the anti-weeders is that they say it's dangerous etc.
But they romanticize alcohol..... which is statistically more dangerous.
Davos123 said:
1602Mark said:
Davos123 said:
Macski said:
i would argue cannabis is far more unhealthy then tobacco.
Please show your working
Source: https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2019/06/2...
Alcohol and tobacco much more harmful than cannabis.
Lannister902 said:
The thought of a 'recreational' drug being taken, and half the population being stoned out their heads roaming the streets like zombies fills me with dread.
That actually happens on most highstreets at chucking-out time, just the drug in (ab)use is alcohol. My useless anecdote is that unlike the bevvy merchants falling out of pubs people on weed generally don't start fights ending up in A&E or police cells.Davos123 said:
Macski said:
i would argue cannabis is far more unhealthy then tobacco.
Please show your workingSmoking is unhealthy because your inhaling something you are burning, BBQ are not that healthy for you for the same reason. If you work in certain industries like diesel mechanics, chimney sweeps you are susceptible to the same health risks.
So if you are smoking cannabis how would the health risks be less?
Although eating may not have as negative short term inpact I really don't get the point as the effect as I understand it are delayed and are unpredictable?
People don't commit suicide or murder after smoking tobacco,
Often it is pointed out to studies that show little or no increase in accidents involving cannabis in states that have legalized it, but it does show up a lot in accident reports.
Who would be comfortable having a surgical procedure done on them by a Doctor or being flown in a plane by a pilot who has taken cannabis?
I’m honestly amazed at some of the ignorance in this thread that flies completely in the face of the mountains of evidence available (particular those comparing alcohol and tobacco to cannabis)
Also the cognitive dissonance of some posters who have claimed they are small government, small c conservative types who are in favour of policing what natural substances people can ingest in privacy.
Also the cognitive dissonance of some posters who have claimed they are small government, small c conservative types who are in favour of policing what natural substances people can ingest in privacy.
Macski said:
Do people seriously believe that a substance that has such an effect on the body does no harm?
That's not what I said. I asked someone saying it was worse than tobacco, an incredibly harmful substance, to provide evidence. It is not as unhealthy as tobacco. Macski said:
Smoking is unhealthy because your inhaling something you are burning, BBQ are not that healthy for you for the same reason. If you work in certain industries like diesel mechanics, chimney sweeps you are susceptible to the same health risks.
This is far too simplistic. what you are burning and inhaling makes a huge difference to the health risks associated with smoking. If you smoke anything regularly it's not going to be great for you, but tobacco is far more carcinogenic than most things (including cannabis) that people smoke. Nicotine is also highly addictive, meaning that you will smoke far more than a cannabis user would, thus exposing yourself to much greater risk, even if the substances were equally as unhealthy (which they aren't). Macski said:
Although eating may not have as negative short term inpact I really don't get the point as the effect as I understand it are delayed and are unpredictable?
It takes longer to have an effect, yes. It's not unpredictable in controlled doses.Macski said:
People don't commit suicide or murder after smoking tobacco,
Untrue. Every cigarette smoker who's ever committed suicide have done so after smoking tobacco and being under its influence. Correlation does not imply causation. There haven't been peer-reviewed studies that establish cannabis use with severe mental health issues from consumption in adulthood, though there have been some which suggest use in teenage years can have an impact. I think a regulated, legal market can reduce use in young people. Macski said:
Often it is pointed out to studies that show little or no increase in accidents involving cannabis in states that have legalized it, but it does show up a lot in accident reports.
So what? This is probably just because legalisation doesn't cause an increase in usage. Macski said:
Who would be comfortable having a surgical procedure done on them by a Doctor or being flown in a plane by a pilot who has taken cannabis?
No. Wouldn't want them to be drunk, either. Don't think alcohol should be illegal.mouseymousey said:
Source: https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2019/06/2...
Alcohol and tobacco much more harmful than cannabis.
Art0ir said:
I’m honestly amazed at some of the ignorance in this thread that flies completely in the face of the mountains of evidence available (particular those comparing alcohol and tobacco to cannabis)
Also the cognitive dissonance of some posters who have claimed they are small government, small c conservative types who are in favour of policing what natural substances people can ingest in privacy.
It's a sort of meta thread answer to the title question. These people vote so drugs policy is shaped by their ignorance.Also the cognitive dissonance of some posters who have claimed they are small government, small c conservative types who are in favour of policing what natural substances people can ingest in privacy.
stuarthat said:
That graph may show one side but it doesn’t show the deaths related to suppling the drugs gangs ect .
Indeed. That's a forceful argument for legalisation of course.Personal experiences after 30 years as a copper:
I wasn’t spat on by a group of people high on weed.
I wasn’t attacked by three football supporters high on weed.
I wasn’t kicked repeatedly when on the ground by people high on weed.
I wasn’t punched by prisoners high on weed.
I never turned up at homes and seen a woman who had been beaten by a man high on weed, nor seen kids too terrified to move, speak or respond, huddling in a corner or locked in their bedroom.
I had no prisoner self-harm whilst high on weed.
I’m sure other coppers have had problems with people high on weed, although I’d bet that they’ve had many more with drunks.
It doesn’t prove anything about the safety of cannabis for the user of course, but I reckon you meet a nicer sort of person with weed smokers.
Edited by Derek Smith on Sunday 4th August 10:49
Macski said:
Who would be comfortable having a surgical procedure done on them by a Doctor or being flown in a plane by a pilot who has taken cannabis?
This could already be happening. It’s an inane argument as many things which are legal are carefully regulated in work places. I mean, it’s legal not to wash your hands but a surgeon would be reckless if they didn’t. It’s legal to stay awake for 2 days but a surgeon would be reckless if they did it before work.
You need much better arguments than this. Much better.
gregs656 said:
Macski said:
Who would be comfortable having a surgical procedure done on them by a Doctor or being flown in a plane by a pilot who has taken cannabis?
This could already be happening. It’s an inane argument as many things which are legal are carefully regulated in work places. I mean, it’s legal not to wash your hands but a surgeon would be reckless if they didn’t. It’s legal to stay awake for 2 days but a surgeon would be reckless if they did it before work.
You need much better arguments than this. Much better.
gregs656 said:
Macski said:
Who would be comfortable having a surgical procedure done on them by a Doctor or being flown in a plane by a pilot who has taken cannabis?
This could already be happening. It’s an inane argument as many things which are legal are carefully regulated in work places. I mean, it’s legal not to wash your hands but a surgeon would be reckless if they didn’t. It’s legal to stay awake for 2 days but a surgeon would be reckless if they did it before work.
You need much better arguments than this. Much better.
I know it could be happening but would you be comfortable knowing that your about to go into surgery with a team that has been using cannabis.
Macski said:
Why are you having surgery right now?
I know it could be happening but would you be comfortable knowing that your about to go into surgery with a team that has been using cannabis.
The answer is clearly no, but it has no bearing what so ever on the legalisation argument for the obvious reasons already pointed out to you. I know it could be happening but would you be comfortable knowing that your about to go into surgery with a team that has been using cannabis.
It’s such an obvious point that if you can’t work it out I am not surprised you are unable to think through the nuances of the arguments on both sides.
Indeed I would not be happy with someone who makes the kind of argument you are making here being on my surgery team.
Davos123 said:
Macski said:
Do people seriously believe that a substance that has such an effect on the body does no harm?
That's not what I said. I asked someone saying it was worse than tobacco, an incredibly harmful substance, to provide evidence. It is not as unhealthy as tobacco. Macski said:
Smoking is unhealthy because your inhaling something you are burning, BBQ are not that healthy for you for the same reason. If you work in certain industries like diesel mechanics, chimney sweeps you are susceptible to the same health risks.
Davos123 said:
This is far too simplistic. what you are burning and inhaling makes a huge difference to the health risks associated with smoking. If you smoke anything regularly it's not going to be great for you, but tobacco is far more carcinogenic than most things (including cannabis) that people smoke. Nicotine is also highly addictive, meaning that you will smoke far more than a cannabis user would, thus exposing yourself to much greater risk, even if the substances were equally as unhealthy (which they aren't).
It is not true that cannabis contains fewer carcinogenic then tobacco, there is a view that THC in cannabis counter some of the effects of carcinogenic in cannabis. Tobacco one of the most addictive substance there is, if injected directly into the blood stream, when smoked it is far less addictive. Smoking tobacco is not addictive in a true medical defined way, the defenition was altered when Bill Clinton wanted to bring in restrictions on smoking and found he couldn't.It is often pointed out that it is unheard off for people to smoke 20 joints of cannabis a day, the more accaptable it becomes I suggest this will change.
I believe cannabis gets absorbed by the body more then tobacco.
Macski said:
Although eating may not have as negative short term inpact I really don't get the point as the effect as I understand it are delayed and are unpredictable?
It takes longer to have an effect, yes. It's not unpredictable in controlled doses.Macski said:
People don't commit suicide or murder after smoking tobacco,
Davos123 said:
Untrue. Every cigarette smoker who's ever committed suicide have done so after smoking tobacco and being under its influence. Correlation does not imply causation. There haven't been peer-reviewed studies that establish cannabis use with severe mental health issues from consumption in adulthood, though there have been some which suggest use in teenage years can have an impact. I think a regulated, legal market can reduce use in young people.
It isn't untrue, cannabis use is linked to depression. There was a TV program the other day about a young woman jumping for no reason out of a window to her death after smoking cannabisMacski said:
Often it is pointed out to studies that show little or no increase in accidents involving cannabis in states that have legalized it, but it does show up a lot in accident reports.
So what? This is probably just because legalisation doesn't cause an increase in usage. Macski said:
Who would be comfortable having a surgical procedure done on them by a Doctor or being flown in a plane by a pilot who has taken cannabis?
Davos123 said:
No. Wouldn't want them to be drunk, either. Don't think alcohol should be illegal.
Well you can kill with a knife so should guns be freely available too?Derek Smith said:
Indeed. That's a forceful argument for legalisation of course.
Personal experiences after 30 years as a copper:
I wasn’t spat on by a group of people high on weed.
I wasn’t attacked by three football supporters high on weed.
I wasn’t kicked repeatedly when on the ground by people high on weed.
I wasn’t punched by prisoners high on weed.
I never turned up at homes and seen a woman who had been beaten by a man high on weed, nor seen kids too terrified to move, speak or respond, huddling in a corner or locked in their bedroom.
I had no prisoner self-harm whilst high on weed.
I’m sure other coppers have had problems with people high on weed, although I’d bet that they’ve had many more with drunks.
It doesn’t prove anything about the safety of cannabis for the user of course, but I reckon you meet a nicer sort of person with weed smokers.
You must have had a very sheltered life as a copper.Personal experiences after 30 years as a copper:
I wasn’t spat on by a group of people high on weed.
I wasn’t attacked by three football supporters high on weed.
I wasn’t kicked repeatedly when on the ground by people high on weed.
I wasn’t punched by prisoners high on weed.
I never turned up at homes and seen a woman who had been beaten by a man high on weed, nor seen kids too terrified to move, speak or respond, huddling in a corner or locked in their bedroom.
I had no prisoner self-harm whilst high on weed.
I’m sure other coppers have had problems with people high on weed, although I’d bet that they’ve had many more with drunks.
It doesn’t prove anything about the safety of cannabis for the user of course, but I reckon you meet a nicer sort of person with weed smokers.
Edited by Derek Smith on Sunday 4th August 10:49
I have seen people get confused and panick while high on cannabis,
Watch the various crime channels cannabis is very often a significant cause in murders
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