Can Sir Keir Starmer revive the Labour Party?
Discussion
Vanden Saab said:
86 said:
Delta poll today. Drastic reduction in Labour lead to only 10 points
Their polls are a bit strange, 16% two weeks ago then a jump to 23% then back to 10%. Looking back it is almost as if they have two completely different groups of people answering the question.frisbee said:
Vanden Saab said:
86 said:
Delta poll today. Drastic reduction in Labour lead to only 10 points
Their polls are a bit strange, 16% two weeks ago then a jump to 23% then back to 10%. Looking back it is almost as if they have two completely different groups of people answering the question.Vanden Saab said:
frisbee said:
Vanden Saab said:
86 said:
Delta poll today. Drastic reduction in Labour lead to only 10 points
Their polls are a bit strange, 16% two weeks ago then a jump to 23% then back to 10%. Looking back it is almost as if they have two completely different groups of people answering the question.86 said:
Delta poll today. Drastic reduction in Labour lead to only 10 points
Maybe people are realizing there won't be much, if any, change under new new labour or however SKS is branding it.They've repeatedly refused to give a figure on NHS (or any other) pay negotiations. Everyone "accepts" Brexit (for better or worse). They don't seem to know if they want to increase tax or reduce tax, or increase / decrease spending for that matter. There seems to be a default assumption that taxes will go down (for the average person) and spending will increase and it will all be fairies and unicorns. Unfortunately that doesn't hold up to
johnboy1975 said:
Maybe people are realizing there won't be much, if any, change under new new labour or however SKS is branding it.
They've repeatedly refused to give a figure on NHS (or any other) pay negotiations. Everyone "accepts" Brexit (for better or worse). They don't seem to know if they want to increase tax or reduce tax, or increase / decrease spending for that matter. There seems to be a default assumption that taxes will go down (for the average person) and spending will increase and it will all be fairies and unicorns. Unfortunately that doesn't hold up tomuch any scrutiny, which is kinda where we are.
He's also done absolute wonders to alienate left leaning supporters, firstly by being an absolute ghost during the largest showing of industrial action in a generation, and with his whole, 'if you don't like it leave' rhetoric They've repeatedly refused to give a figure on NHS (or any other) pay negotiations. Everyone "accepts" Brexit (for better or worse). They don't seem to know if they want to increase tax or reduce tax, or increase / decrease spending for that matter. There seems to be a default assumption that taxes will go down (for the average person) and spending will increase and it will all be fairies and unicorns. Unfortunately that doesn't hold up to
Many, including myself, are calling his bluff, leaving the party and withdrawing support for the party.
SKS is probably playing the only sensible game.
Don't appear too left in order to remain attractive to those leaving the Tories.
He doesn't need to man the pickets - those on the pickets aren't voting Tory anyway.
Equally - don't split your vote with policy, if it's any good the Tories will nab it. If its radical you'll split your share of the vote.
As long as the conservatives keep making a hash of things then SKS is laughing.
Don't interrupt your opposition when they are busy making mistakes.
The thing that'd force Labour to get off the fence is for the Conservatives to sort themselves out and start delivering a strategy and policies that the electorate can get behind.
I don't think they can.
Don't appear too left in order to remain attractive to those leaving the Tories.
He doesn't need to man the pickets - those on the pickets aren't voting Tory anyway.
Equally - don't split your vote with policy, if it's any good the Tories will nab it. If its radical you'll split your share of the vote.
As long as the conservatives keep making a hash of things then SKS is laughing.
Don't interrupt your opposition when they are busy making mistakes.
The thing that'd force Labour to get off the fence is for the Conservatives to sort themselves out and start delivering a strategy and policies that the electorate can get behind.
I don't think they can.
But it’s not exactly the worlds biggest shock that SKS isn’t a rollicking revolutionary leader. He’s Labours equivalent of a May Major crossover - strong and stable meets peas. Nobody can say they expected more from him. His entire shtick is Not Corbyn and Not Tory. That’s it.
At some point it’s going to dawn on him that he will actually have to go out and *win* the GE, not just stand around being “Not somebody else”. For all the hopeful pining that some have of him winning exactly because of that, I’m afraid that simply isn’t how GEs are won. It will at least be vaguely interesting to see who comes out once SKS decides it’s game time.
At some point it’s going to dawn on him that he will actually have to go out and *win* the GE, not just stand around being “Not somebody else”. For all the hopeful pining that some have of him winning exactly because of that, I’m afraid that simply isn’t how GEs are won. It will at least be vaguely interesting to see who comes out once SKS decides it’s game time.
Interesting thought piece in yesterday's Times
https://archive.is/6FMsF
https://archive.is/6FMsF
Times Article said:
“If we only scrape a small majority, or end up the biggest party in a hung parliament,” a shadow cabinet minister says, “then all of a sudden these people are relevant again. John McDonnell will be in and out of No 10 like Steve Baker. We’ll have to have another general election to get rid of them.” As the polls narrow, that sounds less and less like scaremongering.
Ooopppsss...
Telegraph said:
The Labour leader has pledged to force other wealthy savers to be subject to a cap on their pension savings and on Tuesday night led a Parliamentary attempt to overturn the centrepiece of Jeremy Hunt's Budget.
However, The Telegraph can reveal that under a special arrangement with the Government, Sir Keir's pension from his time as Director of Public Prosecutions (DPP) is exempt from tax rules he would apply to other workers who save more than £1m.
Just another brick in the wall...However, The Telegraph can reveal that under a special arrangement with the Government, Sir Keir's pension from his time as Director of Public Prosecutions (DPP) is exempt from tax rules he would apply to other workers who save more than £1m.
Vanden Saab said:
Ooopppsss...
Whilst it's rather crazy that a Statutory Instrument exists for one person's pension, it's also rather bizarre that it was approved by a Tory government...Telegraph said:
The Labour leader has pledged to force other wealthy savers to be subject to a cap on their pension savings and on Tuesday night led a Parliamentary attempt to overturn the centrepiece of Jeremy Hunt's Budget.
However, The Telegraph can reveal that under a special arrangement with the Government, Sir Keir's pension from his time as Director of Public Prosecutions (DPP) is exempt from tax rules he would apply to other workers who save more than £1m.
Just another brick in the wall...However, The Telegraph can reveal that under a special arrangement with the Government, Sir Keir's pension from his time as Director of Public Prosecutions (DPP) is exempt from tax rules he would apply to other workers who save more than £1m.
Evanivitch said:
Vanden Saab said:
Ooopppsss...
Whilst it's rather crazy that a Statutory Instrument exists for one person's pension, it's also rather bizarre that it was approved by a Tory government...Telegraph said:
The Labour leader has pledged to force other wealthy savers to be subject to a cap on their pension savings and on Tuesday night led a Parliamentary attempt to overturn the centrepiece of Jeremy Hunt's Budget.
However, The Telegraph can reveal that under a special arrangement with the Government, Sir Keir's pension from his time as Director of Public Prosecutions (DPP) is exempt from tax rules he would apply to other workers who save more than £1m.
Just another brick in the wall...However, The Telegraph can reveal that under a special arrangement with the Government, Sir Keir's pension from his time as Director of Public Prosecutions (DPP) is exempt from tax rules he would apply to other workers who save more than £1m.
Evanivitch said:
Vanden Saab said:
Ooopppsss...
Whilst it's rather crazy that a Statutory Instrument exists for one person's pension, it's also rather bizarre that it was approved by a Tory government...Telegraph said:
The Labour leader has pledged to force other wealthy savers to be subject to a cap on their pension savings and on Tuesday night led a Parliamentary attempt to overturn the centrepiece of Jeremy Hunt's Budget.
However, The Telegraph can reveal that under a special arrangement with the Government, Sir Keir's pension from his time as Director of Public Prosecutions (DPP) is exempt from tax rules he would apply to other workers who save more than £1m.
Just another brick in the wall...However, The Telegraph can reveal that under a special arrangement with the Government, Sir Keir's pension from his time as Director of Public Prosecutions (DPP) is exempt from tax rules he would apply to other workers who save more than £1m.
Vanden Saab said:
Ooopppsss...
The strange thing is that no-one forced them to take the stand they did. They even had their own shadow health secretary saying it should be abolished for doctors six months earlier. Telegraph said:
The Labour leader has pledged to force other wealthy savers to be subject to a cap on their pension savings and on Tuesday night led a Parliamentary attempt to overturn the centrepiece of Jeremy Hunt's Budget.
However, The Telegraph can reveal that under a special arrangement with the Government, Sir Keir's pension from his time as Director of Public Prosecutions (DPP) is exempt from tax rules he would apply to other workers who save more than £1m.
Just another brick in the wall...However, The Telegraph can reveal that under a special arrangement with the Government, Sir Keir's pension from his time as Director of Public Prosecutions (DPP) is exempt from tax rules he would apply to other workers who save more than £1m.
They decided this would be the cause that would rally people against the budget in a Truss style scenario and miscalculated as far as I can see.
JagLover said:
Vanden Saab said:
Ooopppsss...
The strange thing is that no-one forced them to take the stand they did. They even had their own shadow health secretary saying it should be abolished for doctors six months earlier. Telegraph said:
The Labour leader has pledged to force other wealthy savers to be subject to a cap on their pension savings and on Tuesday night led a Parliamentary attempt to overturn the centrepiece of Jeremy Hunt's Budget.
However, The Telegraph can reveal that under a special arrangement with the Government, Sir Keir's pension from his time as Director of Public Prosecutions (DPP) is exempt from tax rules he would apply to other workers who save more than £1m.
Just another brick in the wall...However, The Telegraph can reveal that under a special arrangement with the Government, Sir Keir's pension from his time as Director of Public Prosecutions (DPP) is exempt from tax rules he would apply to other workers who save more than £1m.
They decided this would be the cause that would rally people against the budget in a Truss style scenario and miscalculated as far as I can see.
768 said:
Vanden Saab said:
You have to wonder if theTories knew about Keirs law or whether it was just a lucky coincidence.
They way he's played it you have to wonder if Keir knew.Ironically Sir Desmond Swayne signed it off - no friend of 'lefty lawyers'
I've no problem with the DPP getting pension tax exemption for the same reason it makes sense for judges to get an exemption. They could make mountains of cash in private legal practice so you have to incentivise state paid work to get quality applicants.
Edited by oddman on Wednesday 22 March 08:35
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