Rishi Sunak - Prime Minister
Discussion
Sway said:
At the moment, the only policy presented by either Cons or Lab is the public school VAT one...
Ultimately, at the moment there's not a lot to talk about. The fact he got soggy and might well be an utter plum on his timings (of both announcement and GE) has already been done.
I'm quite attracted to the admonishment that I'm ploughing an old farrow with things can only get wetter in a thread that has been hijacked for days on end by people sore about a policy that has nothing to do with this thread at all.Ultimately, at the moment there's not a lot to talk about. The fact he got soggy and might well be an utter plum on his timings (of both announcement and GE) has already been done.
And you're right Sway, how silly of me to forget the embargo. We can't possibly discuss anything Sunak says or does until the manifesto comes out. See you back here whenever they launch.
Unreal said:
S600BSB said:
blueg33 said:
2 part leaders making speeches yesterday whilst is was raining
One chose to stand outside and get soaked
One chose to stand inside and stay dry
I want a PM who can make sensible choices
Standing in the rain and pretending everything is going well pretty much sums up this government.
Agree. The visuals were shockingly bad for Rishi. Why did they let that happen? Can’t imagine Tony Blair - or even Dave - being put in that position. Just a shambolic way to kick off a campaign. They really are a poor.One chose to stand outside and get soaked
One chose to stand inside and stay dry
I want a PM who can make sensible choices
Standing in the rain and pretending everything is going well pretty much sums up this government.
President Merkin said:
Sway said:
At the moment, the only policy presented by either Cons or Lab is the public school VAT one...
Ultimately, at the moment there's not a lot to talk about. The fact he got soggy and might well be an utter plum on his timings (of both announcement and GE) has already been done.
I'm quite attracted to the admonishment that I'm ploughing an old farrow with things can only get wetter in a thread that has been hijacked for days on end by people sore about a policy that has nothing to do with this thread at all.Ultimately, at the moment there's not a lot to talk about. The fact he got soggy and might well be an utter plum on his timings (of both announcement and GE) has already been done.
And you're right Sway, how silly of me to forget the embargo. We can't possibly discuss anything Sunak says or does until the manifesto comes out. See you back here whenever they launch.
But, in the absence of policies - all we've got is a couple of press conferences which Sunak looked a plum in, and a Sky reported getting kicked out of campaign launch due to pooling. That's it.
Unreal said:
S600BSB said:
blueg33 said:
2 part leaders making speeches yesterday whilst is was raining
One chose to stand outside and get soaked
One chose to stand inside and stay dry
I want a PM who can make sensible choices
Standing in the rain and pretending everything is going well pretty much sums up this government.
Agree. The visuals were shockingly bad for Rishi. Why did they let that happen? Can’t imagine Tony Blair - or even Dave - being put in that position. Just a shambolic way to kick off a campaign. They really are a poor.One chose to stand outside and get soaked
One chose to stand inside and stay dry
I want a PM who can make sensible choices
Standing in the rain and pretending everything is going well pretty much sums up this government.
This lot cant make good minor decisions, no wonder that major ones are a total disaster.
768 said:
That's exactly the class war argument I see being made.
But the policy does nothing to address it, if anything it just makes it worse.
You are correct, to make things better the UK would need to ban private education. That would see a lot of very good teachers move across to state schools because they really dont want to live in Dubia or America or some other god awful place. The rich would still be able to send their kiddies to private school out But the policy does nothing to address it, if anything it just makes it worse.
And evidence that this might work, well just look at Finland where there are no private schools - Finland ranked seventh in the world in OECD's student assessment chart in 2018, well above the UK and the United States, where there is a mix of private and state education.
Private education does away with the idea of natural selection of the best / brightest across, it just promotes those that can pay for it. Just because your parents / grandparents are bright, doesn't mean that you will be as well. That is why I find private education unfair, not in the best interests of the country as a whole and something that ultimately the state should at a level that is the best for the country.
blueg33 said:
Riff Raff said:
President Merkin said:
Lol. Class war, good one.
I remember when this used to be the Sunak thread. Bit of a head scratcher why none of you want to talk about the guy who insists he has a plan while literally stood in a rain storm without an umbrella in his own thread.
Armando Iannucci on Twitter.I remember when this used to be the Sunak thread. Bit of a head scratcher why none of you want to talk about the guy who insists he has a plan while literally stood in a rain storm without an umbrella in his own thread.
"I have a plan for an umbrella. The umbrella has been purchased, and is ready to go".
One chose to stand outside and get soaked
One chose to stand inside and stay dry
I want a PM who can make sensible choices
Standing in the rain and pretending everything is going well pretty much sums up this government.
Unreal said:
If anyone was watching prior, it had stopped raining and presenters had put their umbrellas away. The announcement started late, probably due to the rain. It restarted as Rishi began his speech and that left three options - have a lackey hold an umbrella over him, abandon and restart later or carry on. I think in the circumstances, the vast majority would carry on, SKS included. If you think his decision opened him up to mockery, think what the mockers could have done with the other two options. It's a non-story outside the bubble.
It has been raining in London for 2 days. Rain was forecast. Doesn't take a genius to err on the side of caution and plan for something to happen indoors instead (that's not to say he wasn't thrown under the bus by his PR team, deliberately or due to incompetence).blueg33 said:
Unreal said:
S600BSB said:
blueg33 said:
2 part leaders making speeches yesterday whilst is was raining
One chose to stand outside and get soaked
One chose to stand inside and stay dry
I want a PM who can make sensible choices
Standing in the rain and pretending everything is going well pretty much sums up this government.
Agree. The visuals were shockingly bad for Rishi. Why did they let that happen? Can’t imagine Tony Blair - or even Dave - being put in that position. Just a shambolic way to kick off a campaign. They really are a poor.One chose to stand outside and get soaked
One chose to stand inside and stay dry
I want a PM who can make sensible choices
Standing in the rain and pretending everything is going well pretty much sums up this government.
This lot cant make good minor decisions, no wonder that major ones are a total disaster.
As said previously, it's all people have to talk about until we see the manifestos and that will be fun.
Edited by Unreal on Thursday 23 May 10:38
Durzel said:
It has been raining in London for 2 days. Rain was forecast. Doesn't take a genius to err on the side of caution and plan for something to happen indoors instead (that's not to say he wasn't thrown under the bus by his PR team, deliberately or due to incompetence).
He was asked about this earlier today, his reply (BBC) was:Sunak says he is the "first to admit that it was a bit wet" but that he is "not a fair weather politican" who "believes in the traditions of our country".
He said it felt right to deliver the speech on Downing Street come "rain or shine".
"I believe very strongly in the traditions of our country. And when prime ministers make important statements like that, they do it on the steps of Downing Street come rain or shine.
"And I believe in those traditions and that's why I did what I did
768 said:
You made it about class, if it's daft that's on you.
It's not a difficult choice for them. They can just send their kids to a school in Switzerland, or put them in state school. Either way they'll do fine and it's the state which loses out.
Lol, cant afford VAT on school fees, so they'll send them to school in Switzerland? It's not a difficult choice for them. They can just send their kids to a school in Switzerland, or put them in state school. Either way they'll do fine and it's the state which loses out.
WestyCarl said:
He was asked about this earlier today, his reply (BBC) was:
Sunak says he is the "first to admit that it was a bit wet" but that he is "not a fair weather politican" who "believes in the traditions of our country".
He said it felt right to deliver the speech on Downing Street come "rain or shine".
"I believe very strongly in the traditions of our country. And when prime ministers make important statements like that, they do it on the steps of Downing Street come rain or shine.
"And I believe in those traditions and that's why I did what I did
Exactly, it's great to see him following the example of one of our greatest leaders, Neil Kinnock.Sunak says he is the "first to admit that it was a bit wet" but that he is "not a fair weather politican" who "believes in the traditions of our country".
He said it felt right to deliver the speech on Downing Street come "rain or shine".
"I believe very strongly in the traditions of our country. And when prime ministers make important statements like that, they do it on the steps of Downing Street come rain or shine.
"And I believe in those traditions and that's why I did what I did
WestyCarl said:
Durzel said:
It has been raining in London for 2 days. Rain was forecast. Doesn't take a genius to err on the side of caution and plan for something to happen indoors instead (that's not to say he wasn't thrown under the bus by his PR team, deliberately or due to incompetence).
He was asked about this earlier today, his reply (BBC) was:Sunak says he is the "first to admit that it was a bit wet" but that he is "not a fair weather politican" who "believes in the traditions of our country".
He said it felt right to deliver the speech on Downing Street come "rain or shine".
"I believe very strongly in the traditions of our country. And when prime ministers make important statements like that, they do it on the steps of Downing Street come rain or shine.
"And I believe in those traditions and that's why I did what I did
sugerbear said:
Private education does away with the idea of natural selection of the best / brightest across, it just promotes those that can pay for it. Just because your parents / grandparents are bright, doesn't mean that you will be as well. That is why I find private education unfair, not in the best interests of the country as a whole and something that ultimately the state should at a level that is the best for the country.
Well... natural selection of the best/brightest seems to be rather something frowned on by large chunks of the labour party too.....Unreal said:
These announcements are traditionally made outside. Governments of all hues tend to observe traditions and conventions. You have an obvious rather visceral dislike of the Tories. That desire to see failure and negativity in everything they do blinds you from the reality that it was really no big deal. Someone who likes Rishi and the Tories (can't say I do) could easily say that carrying on the rain showed a bit of resolve.
As said previously, it's all people have to talk about until we see the manifestos and that will be fun.
I like Rishi and I intend to vote Conservative but I do think it was silly to do it outside in the rain, being drowned out by music. It's one of those bacon sandwich moments - it means nothing and shouldn't make a difference to how anyone votes but will be used on the front page of at least one paper on polling day with a headline containing the word shower or soggy or miserable because the picture sums up what a lot of people think about the government.As said previously, it's all people have to talk about until we see the manifestos and that will be fun.
John Major with his head in his hands is another such picture that sums up the popular narrative. These pictures may come about naturally but why would you want to hand one to your opponents?
Having an umbrella and better mic settings or processing would have solved this problem. I think doing it inside doesn't look as Prime Ministerial but would have been better than what he did.
Killboy said:
Lol, cant afford VAT on school fees, so they'll send them to school in Switzerland?
Well it may be all part of the same package.As a country we are fairly reliant on high end professional services to pay our way in the world but have a tax system that is not competitive for high earners. Labour come along and pile on extra taxes, including on education for children, and many more people might well decide to base themselves elsewhere, particularly those who are not UK citizens but choose to base themselves here.
None of this is happening in a vacuum and there are a number of countries who are now targeting high earning ex-pats in addition to the usual tax havens.
sugerbear said:
Private education does away with the idea of natural selection of the best / brightest across, it just promotes those that can pay for it.
Whereas the state sector promotes those who can afford to live in a catchment area where the demographics are such that the teachers spend more time on education than crowd control, and where resources are not eaten up dragging the low achievers up to passes.Realistically, generational privilege is very hard to undermine. Even if you were to succeed in killing private schools, parents with more resources would spend money on tutoring and educational materials and experiences and make sure they live in an area with other people like themselves. If you were to somehow stop them paying to educate their kids, they'd save the money and get them on the housing ladder. And short of taking all kids into state care, you will never remove the advantages of children of intelligent people who have physical resources and social capital, value education, and understand how to get on in life.
otolith said:
sugerbear said:
Private education does away with the idea of natural selection of the best / brightest across, it just promotes those that can pay for it.
Whereas the state sector promotes those who can afford to live in a catchment area where the demographics are such that the teachers spend more time on education than crowd control, and where resources are not eaten up dragging the low achievers up to passes.Realistically, generational privilege is very hard to undermine. Even if you were to succeed in killing private schools, parents with more resources would spend money on tutoring and educational materials and experiences and make sure they live in an area with other people like themselves. If you were to somehow stop them paying to educate their kids, they'd save the money and get them on the housing ladder. And short of taking all kids into state care, you will never remove the advantages of children of intelligent people who have physical resources and social capital, value education, and understand how to get on in life.
As in, egalitarian delusion is so named for good reason. Who'd think equality in mediocrity is a good idea anyway.
Mr Penguin said:
I like Rishi and I intend to vote Conservative but I do think it was silly to do it outside in the rain, being drowned out by music. It's one of those bacon sandwich moments - it means nothing and shouldn't make a difference to how anyone votes but will be used on the front page of at least one paper on polling day with a headline containing the word shower or soggy or miserable because the picture sums up what a lot of people think about the government.
John Major with his head in his hands is another such picture that sums up the popular narrative. These pictures may come about naturally but why would you want to hand one to your opponents?
Having an umbrella and better mic settings or processing would have solved this problem. I think doing it inside doesn't look as Prime Ministerial but would have been better than what he did.
Rules don’t allow it to be inside - or not in No.10 anyway. It’s party business, not state. Could have done it at CPHQ I guess.John Major with his head in his hands is another such picture that sums up the popular narrative. These pictures may come about naturally but why would you want to hand one to your opponents?
Having an umbrella and better mic settings or processing would have solved this problem. I think doing it inside doesn't look as Prime Ministerial but would have been better than what he did.
At least he avoided the ‘Wally with a Brolly’ headlines! It’s certainly going to be used again though.
turbobloke said:
Eugenics and state-run child rearing farms, just the job.
As in, egalitarian delusion is so named for good reason. Who'd think equality in mediocrity is a good idea anyway.
A notable clanging paradox on the right is the notion of British exceptionalsm - We don't need the EU, global Britain, comic foreigners etc. and the constant invective & disdain for the institutions that actually set us apart. Doesn't matter who. BBC, NHS, Education, judiciary, civil service, National Trust. Anything that rubs against the grain of right wing delusion is fair game. The irrationality is jarring.As in, egalitarian delusion is so named for good reason. Who'd think equality in mediocrity is a good idea anyway.
President Merkin said:
turbobloke said:
Eugenics and state-run child rearing farms, just the job.
As in, egalitarian delusion is so named for good reason. Who'd think equality in mediocrity is a good idea anyway.
A notable clanging paradox on the right is the notion of British exceptionalsm - We don't need the EU, global Britain, comic foreigners etc. and the constant invective & disdain for the institutions that actually set us apart. Doesn't matter who. BBC, NHS, Education, judiciary, civil service, National Trust. Anything that rubs against the grain of right wing delusion is fair game. The irrationality is jarring.As in, egalitarian delusion is so named for good reason. Who'd think equality in mediocrity is a good idea anyway.
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