Fox Hunting

[NomduJour]

gadgetmac said:

Thats for food or out of fear.

Ah, OK - so it’s acceptable in certain situations (I’m pretty sure the average domestic cat pulling a songbird to pieces is neither hungry nor scared, though).

[gadgetmac]

NomduJour said:

gadgetmac said:

Thats for food or out of fear.

Ah, OK - so it’s acceptable in certain situations (I’m pretty sure the average domestic cat pulling a songbird to pieces is neither hungry nor scared, though).

A cat is doing what it does naturally out of instinct and has no morals or preception of good and bad or charity and mercy.

And apt comparison.

[Jasandjules]

NomduJour said:

What about animals killing other animals?

And how is that relevant to humans on horses hunting foxes with dogs ?

Pro hunting by any chance?

[NomduJour]

The issue is surely the unacceptable cruelty, however or by whatever it is caused. Any other assessment is double standards.

[gadgetmac]

NomduJour said:

The issue is surely the unacceptable cruelty, however or by whatever it is caused. Any other assessment is double standards.

Bullst.

You can’t compare a cat killing a bird to a man with hounds seeking his kicks from hunting foxes with dogs.

[popeyewhite]

gadgetmac said:

A cat is doing what it does naturally out of instinct and has no morals or preception of good and bad or charity and mercy.

And apt comparison.

I'm sure people who hunt have morals, just not the same as yours. I'll add it's also pretty charitable to chickens to get rid of foxes.

[NomduJour]

gadgetmac said:

Bullst.

You can’t compare a cat killing a bird to a man with hounds seeking his kicks from hunting foxes with dogs.

I see; there are different kinds of “cruelty”, some acceptable, some not - and you are the self-appointed arbiter.

[Davos123]

gadgetmac said:

Bullst.

You can’t compare a cat killing a bird to a man with hounds seeking his kicks from hunting foxes with dogs.

I think you can, in both cases the issue is man thinking they should hold dominion over animals. We shouldn't be breeding cats for pets.

[Jasandjules]

NomduJour said:

The issue is surely the unacceptable cruelty, however or by whatever it is caused. Any other assessment is double standards.

I can't quite determine if you are seriously attempting to posit this view as a defence to a dozen humans on horseback chasing foxes with dogs to tear them apart.

Do you think if we issue a law banning foxes from hunting chickens (well without a rifle let's say for the clean kill) they will obey?

[NomduJour]

I have no need to defend anything - hounds kill foxes, rifles kill foxes, snares kill foxes. Sometimes cars kill foxes. End result of all is a dead fox - I suspect the rest is largely peripheral from the fox’s point of view, however much men in red coats wind you up.

[Jasandjules]

NomduJour said:

I have no need to defend anything - hounds kill foxes, rifles kill foxes, snares kill foxes. Sometimes cars kill foxes. End result of all is a dead fox - I suspect the rest is largely peripheral from the fox’s point of view, however much men in red coats wind you up.

To be clear, you would be happy to be hung, drawn and quartered? What about zamochit? Or die in your sleep.. Because all are the same to you correct?

[NomduJour]

My expectation and anticipation of death is very different from an animal’s, as you well know. I’d happily take my chances as a fox hunt country, though.

[LDN]

NomduJour said:

Jasandjules said:

Humane traps only. Is it so hard to appreciate that some people care about animals?

What about animals killing other animals?

God, wading though the thickness on PH can be exhausting.

Some animals kill their own young; do you want to use that as a benchmark also? We are animals, yes. We have moral agency though. Comparing our actions to that of a cat and a cats instinct - is just idiocy on another level. I think that deep down, you must know that. I do hope so. Otherwise... well.

[NomduJour]

Does your moral agency require you to equate the life of an animal with that of a human? If not, how do you apportion your concern? Cuddly-looking things at the top? Cats, for example, are cuddly and clever, but they also torture for fun. Is there a checklist I can refer to?

[Davos123]

NomduJour said:

Does your moral agency require you to equate the life of an animal with that of a human? If not, how do you apportion your concern? Cuddly-looking things at the top? Cats, for example, are cuddly and clever, but they also torture for fun. Is there a checklist I can refer to?

You can place value in the life of an animal without equating it to the life of a human.

[colonel c]

Rovinghawk said:

colonel c said:

Well the first thing is to make your chicken run and henhouse secure and secondly to close the henhouse up at night. It’s not difficult.

Presumably if I get burgled it's my fault for having unsufficient locks rather than the burglar's for breaking in?

colonel c said:

I note the emotive language used to convey how horrible the fox is. It’s not bloodlust that will induce a fox to kill many birds in one go.

They keep killing until there's nothing left to kill.

colonel c said:

It’s simply instinct and being opportunistic in ensuring a food supply. Left to their own devices the fox will return and remove the other carcases for later.

I could accept that argument for a few chickens- when it's many thousands then the argument weakens. At that point it's a killing frenzy.

I think we are stumbling into the realms of fantasy here.

[colonel c]

popeyewhite said:

wiggy001] said:

Are you seriously saying you can't stop a fox getting into a henhouse?

Actually foxes are pretty hard to stop. Like rats they gnaw and tear at wire over time.

That’s right. They usually come equipped with bolt croppers and crowbars.
It’s not been unknown for them to steal mini diggers from building sites too.

[Brads67]

colonel c said:

That’s right. They usually come equipped with bolt croppers and crowbars.
It’s not been unknown for them to steal mini diggers from building sites too.

So we can take it you have little experience of foxes then ?

[popeyewhite]

colonel c said:

That’s right. They usually come equipped with bolt croppers and crowbars.
It’s not been unknown for them to steal mini diggers from building sites too.

You're thinking of p*keys. Different species old chap, but some say equally verminous.

[LDN]

colonel c said:

popeyewhite said:

wiggy001] said:

Are you seriously saying you can't stop a fox getting into a henhouse?

Actually foxes are pretty hard to stop. Like rats they gnaw and tear at wire over time.

That’s right. They usually come equipped with bolt croppers and crowbars.
It’s not been unknown for them to steal mini diggers from building sites too.