The Future of Power Generation in Great Britain

[silentbrown]

Gary C said:

We have at least 300 years worth of coal under the uk.

I guess you mean the North Sea stuff?

BP energy review says just 70 million tons of Proved Resources, lasting a mere 17 years at our current (very low) consumption.

https://www.bp.com/content/dam/bp/en/corporate/pdf...

[Gary C]

silentbrown said:

Gary C said:

We have at least 300 years worth of coal under the uk.

I guess you mean the North Sea stuff?

BP energy review says just 70 million tons of Proved Resources, lasting a mere 17 years at our current (very low) consumption.

https://www.bp.com/content/dam/bp/en/corporate/pdf...

Under the mainland.

Cegb estimates in the 80's.

Few years lopped of but improved tech means more can be got too (except of course, the closed mines have written off some of it)

Let's face it, if it wasn't for co2 we would still have a majority of coal generation.

[V8 Fettler]

Gary C said:

V8 Fettler said:

What minimum utilisation ratios are you using? For wind, this was probably around 5% (or less!) in Jan 2017

I was using barrows 30-40% load factor so producing about 300gwhr in a year

If grid collapse is to be avoided then the minimum utilisation ratio should be identified. This ratio can also be used to determine total capacity required if no back-up is provided.

[silentbrown]

Gary C said:

What was interesting is that the latest turbines have ramped up nameplate capacity and reduced capital costs but seem to need similar area, but is suppose that to be expected as theirs only so much wind (unless we stack them ?)

I'd noticed that too and it surprises me. I'd have thought the amount of energy harvested would be proportional to the swept area of the blades, plus a bonus factor because windspeed tends in increase with height. Bigger turbines need more spacing but doesn't that go up proportionally to diameter rather than swept area?

[LongQ]

silentbrown said:

Gary C said:

What was interesting is that the latest turbines have ramped up nameplate capacity and reduced capital costs but seem to need similar area, but is suppose that to be expected as theirs only so much wind (unless we stack them ?)

I'd noticed that too and it surprises me. I'd have thought the amount of energy harvested would be proportional to the swept area of the blades, plus a bonus factor because windspeed tends in increase with height. Bigger turbines need more spacing but doesn't that go up proportionally to diameter rather than swept area?

I would guess that there are times when downwind turbulence becomes a factor thus requiring separation in 2 dimensions.

[V8 Fettler]

The UK has trillions of tons of coal, but access is not the easiest.

https://www.worldcoal.com/coal/31032014/coal_disco...

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/now-k...

[Gary C]

V8 Fettler said:

The UK has trillions of tons of coal, but access is not the easiest.

https://www.worldcoal.com/coal/31032014/coal_disco...

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/now-k...

As I said, even before this was found, assessments of future usage and reserves predicted 300 years of uk self sufficiency burning coal for electricity. Even where it is, we could get it out. There is a mine being sunk near Newcastle to go under the sea to get at a potash seam, so it's not something we can't do.

Pity we can't use it.

[Gary C]

In the theme of calculations I thought it would be interesting to see how much generation would be required to replace all the road cars with electric.

We drive 316 billion miles per year so in Nissan Leaf terms of 235 miles using 40kwhr

So that works out at an extra 53twhr to power complete electrification of the roads or another ~1000sqrkm of wind.

interestingly, we had a brief from our senior management a while back and they are convinced that at some point in the near future, gas will get too expensive (?) and homes will be built with/converted to electric heating. Now that would put a huge load onto the system.

[rolando]

Gary C said:

In the theme of calculations I thought it would be interesting to see how much generation would be required to replace all the road cars with electric.

We drive 316 billion miles per year so in Nissan Leaf terms of 235 miles using 40kwhr

So that works out at an extra 53twhr to power complete electrification of the roads or another ~1000sqrkm of wind.

interestingly, we had a brief from our senior management a while back and they are convinced that at some point in the near future, gas will get too expensive (?) and homes will be built with/converted to electric heating. Now that would put a huge load onto the system.

You've only just noticed what all this green propaganda will do?

[Gary C]

rolando said:

Gary C said:

In the theme of calculations I thought it would be interesting to see how much generation would be required to replace all the road cars with electric.

We drive 316 billion miles per year so in Nissan Leaf terms of 235 miles using 40kwhr

So that works out at an extra 53twhr to power complete electrification of the roads or another ~1000sqrkm of wind.

interestingly, we had a brief from our senior management a while back and they are convinced that at some point in the near future, gas will get too expensive (?) and homes will be built with/converted to electric heating. Now that would put a huge load onto the system.

You've only just noticed what all this green propaganda will do?

I'm not slanting this either way. Just trying to put facts.

So homes currently use 500twhr. but that's not split into electric or gas. So the simplest calc I can find is uk total energy consumption per year of 1700twhr which would be almost 50,000sqrkm of wind.

So that's impractical. What would be a reasonable estimate of the max size that uk off shore wind could grow too I wonder

[LongQ]

Gary C said:

In the theme of calculations I thought it would be interesting to see how much generation would be required to replace all the road cars with electric.

We drive 316 billion miles per year so in Nissan Leaf terms of 235 miles using 40kwhr

So that works out at an extra 53twhr to power complete electrification of the roads or another ~1000sqrkm of wind.

interestingly, we had a brief from our senior management a while back and they are convinced that at some point in the near future, gas will get too expensive (?) and homes will be built with/converted to electric heating. Now that would put a huge load onto the system.

Does that include Trucks, vans and buses or are they extra?

Generators, Tractors, boats and ships, other types of plant?

Even aircraft if Rolls Royce and partners make their project work.

[Gary C]

LongQ said:

Gary C said:

In the theme of calculations I thought it would be interesting to see how much generation would be required to replace all the road cars with electric.

We drive 316 billion miles per year so in Nissan Leaf terms of 235 miles using 40kwhr

So that works out at an extra 53twhr to power complete electrification of the roads or another ~1000sqrkm of wind.

interestingly, we had a brief from our senior management a while back and they are convinced that at some point in the near future, gas will get too expensive (?) and homes will be built with/converted to electric heating. Now that would put a huge load onto the system.

Does that include Trucks, vans and buses or are they extra?

Generators, Tractors, boats and ships, other types of plant?

Even aircraft if Rolls Royce and partners make their project work.

As far as I could make out, that was every vehicle on uk roads, so cars trucks buses etc.

The 1700twhr total uk energy consumption was from a gov website and is meant to cover everything, houses, vehciles, factories so should cover every single fuel type.

[Ali G]

Lego being all at sea?

[010101]

Could you clarify exactly to whom it is that gas will become too expensive?

[jshell]

010101 said:

Could you clarify exactly to whom it is that gas will become too expensive?

I'd like to know this too....

[V8 Fettler]

Paddy_N_Murphy said:

Clearing out some bumpf in the home office.

RenewablesUK did a handy handout at an exhibition - I think a year ago.

PH Worthy ?



A useful 52 page handbook for the uninitiated.
(bulk PH order then ?? )

Burn it to create steam

[rolando]

Paddy_N_Murphy said:

Clearing out some bumpf in the home office.

RenewablesUK did a handy handout at an exhibition - I think a year ago.

PH Worthy ?



A useful 52 page handbook for the uninitiated.
(bulk PH order then ?? )

Have Haynes seen this?

[V8 Fettler]

Coal-fired stations responding well to increased demand.

[Ali G]

Windy Miller back in the big floppy feet again.

Brrrrrr too cold to jfdi.

[rolando]

V8 Fettler said:

Coal-fired stations responding well to increased demand.

Is this a mirage or is it intermittency? We need answers