HS2, whats the current status ?

[P5BNij]

popeyewhite said:

Ian Geary said:

popeyewhite said:

There's more to life than continuously grasping for money and economic happiness. I couldn't give a monley's about "future proofing "

I'm curious about what stage in their careers a lot of the objectors are? Many of the types protecting ancient woodland round my way are retired professional types with expensive houses.

It's fine for them to now say "there's more to life than money" or "the cost is too high", but I wonder what their reaction would have been if their ability to develop a career / build up equity had been curtailed when they were 20 odd.

Walk a mile in someone else's shoes and all that (or perhaps drive 20 miles in their van trying to get to a customer on time so you can make end meet).

Similar to the nimbys near me who decry losing our green heritage to new housing. But your house was once green space? Mumble mumble that's different...it's not me.

I'm afraid I don't fit your stereotype as an HS2 objector. I'm 50-odd, no intention of retiring soon, live in a small detached house next to an estate, do the same job in the fitness and healthcare sector I've done for the past 35 years. I don't use the trains, nor does anyone else I know, and HS2 won't come anywhere near me, destroy the countryside near me, or flatten anyone's house that I know. I still object though, as i would if anyone threw such a vast sum of money away with the justification it will benefit the country as a whole, which is absolute and total deluded rubbish. If IF the northern section is completed trans Pennine then it will make life easier for those who travel across the country, but it will still only benefit a tiny tiny percent of the population even in that area. Rather than focusing on lazy stereotyping why don't you try and explain why someone who never uses trains and whom HS2 won't benefit geographically should welcome this huge waste of money?

Alternatively, perhaps you could explain exactly why it is 'absolute and total deluded rubbish', using facts, not just your opinion.

[Digga]

P5BNij said:

popeyewhite said:

Ian Geary said:

popeyewhite said:

There's more to life than continuously grasping for money and economic happiness. I couldn't give a monley's about "future proofing "

I'm curious about what stage in their careers a lot of the objectors are? Many of the types protecting ancient woodland round my way are retired professional types with expensive houses.

It's fine for them to now say "there's more to life than money" or "the cost is too high", but I wonder what their reaction would have been if their ability to develop a career / build up equity had been curtailed when they were 20 odd.

Walk a mile in someone else's shoes and all that (or perhaps drive 20 miles in their van trying to get to a customer on time so you can make end meet).

Similar to the nimbys near me who decry losing our green heritage to new housing. But your house was once green space? Mumble mumble that's different...it's not me.

I'm afraid I don't fit your stereotype as an HS2 objector. I'm 50-odd, no intention of retiring soon, live in a small detached house next to an estate, do the same job in the fitness and healthcare sector I've done for the past 35 years. I don't use the trains, nor does anyone else I know, and HS2 won't come anywhere near me, destroy the countryside near me, or flatten anyone's house that I know. I still object though, as i would if anyone threw such a vast sum of money away with the justification it will benefit the country as a whole, which is absolute and total deluded rubbish. If IF the northern section is completed trans Pennine then it will make life easier for those who travel across the country, but it will still only benefit a tiny tiny percent of the population even in that area. Rather than focusing on lazy stereotyping why don't you try and explain why someone who never uses trains and whom HS2 won't benefit geographically should welcome this huge waste of money?

Alternatively, perhaps you could explain exactly why it is 'absolute and total deluded rubbish', using facts, not just your opinion.

Or spend less than 30 minutes, watching this video which explains the project better than anything else I've seen or read: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nf5avCUNP0M&fe...

[Condi]

popeyewhite said:

Rather than focusing on lazy stereotyping why don't you try and explain why someone who never uses trains and whom HS2 won't benefit geographically should welcome this huge waste of money?

In the same way most people don't benefit from most government spending directly, but overall the country becomes more efficient, and the wealth that generates benefits everyone.

When the motorways were built you could say the same, but you use them now, even if just occasionally. Someone without a car would have had the same objections as you do now.

You derive little, it any, benefit from defence spending, but the country is safer because of it.

The investment the government makes in science and technology provides no direct benefit to you, but in 10 years you could well use products derived from that investment.

I could go on. The reality is there is very little government spending you derive a direct benefit from. Far far less than you spend in tax each year, more than likely. But that doesnt mean the money which is spent on other things is wasted, or you don't benefit indirectly.



Or should we only support things which benefit us, right now, and to hell with everyone else or 'progress', in whatever form that may be?

[ettore]

I’ve been ambivalent about this but have actually looked into it - the posted video is good as is some of the commentary from the specialist press. Talk of upgrading existing infrastructure is completely impractical, will hobble the network for 30 years and probably cause more environmental damage and incur greater cost. HS2 is a strategic no-brainer but only if linked thoughtfully to the Northern sections.

This will benefit people of all backgrounds; commercially, socially and environmentally.

Trans-pennine link equally needed and when bolted to the rest really does offer transformative potential.

[Digga]

ettore said:

I’ve been ambivalent about this but have actually looked into it - the posted video is good as is some of the commentary from the specialist press. Talk of upgrading existing infrastructure is completely impractical, will hobble the network for 30 years and probably cause more environmental damage and incur greater cost. HS2 is a strategic no-brainer but only if linked thoughtfully to the Northern sections.

This will benefit people of all backgrounds; commercially, socially and environmentally.

Trans-pennine link equally needed and when bolted to the rest really does offer transformative potential.

:thumbup;

As the engineer in the video says, HS2 really will help the rail passenger in Aberystwyth.

[popeyewhite]

ettore said:

This will benefit people of all backgrounds; commercially, socially and environmentally.

For the vast majority it will make no difference whatsoever.

[powerstroke]

Ok so its going ahead , open cheque book ,money spraying about .. no questions asked got to be done regardless..so
How does one get on the teat , start a business? if so what ?? or best company to work for that has a HS2 contract
must be 20+ years of gravy if done right ...

[ettore]

popeyewhite said:

For the vast majority it will make no difference whatsoever.

With the greatest of respect, bks x

[Digga]

popeyewhite said:

ettore said:

This will benefit people of all backgrounds; commercially, socially and environmentally.

For the vast majority it will make no difference whatsoever.

It'll make a colossal difference to many. Watch the video (originally linked by PRTVR) and you might be surprised. I was.

[popeyewhite]

powerstroke said:

Ok so its going ahead , open cheque book ,money spraying about .. no questions asked got to be done regardless..so
How does one get on the teat , start a business? if so what ?? or best company to work for that has a HS2 contract
must be 20+ years of gravy if done right ...

The pigs have been lining up for a while now. As usual contractors will make fantastic sums of money, there will be shortcomings, enquiries, extended time frames, extended budgets and when the next big project comes up in 100 years, perhaps something truly progressive, people will say not to make the same mistakes we did on HS2.

[popeyewhite]

Digga said:

It'll make a colossal difference to many. Watch the video (originally linked by PRTVR) and you might be surprised. I was.

I'll have a look later.

[powerstroke]

ettore said:

popeyewhite said:

For the vast majority it will make no difference whatsoever.

With the greatest of respect, bks x

Exactly !!well said .....it will suck money from everyone ,

[valiant]

popeyewhite said:

powerstroke said:

Ok so its going ahead , open cheque book ,money spraying about .. no questions asked got to be done regardless..so
How does one get on the teat , start a business? if so what ?? or best company to work for that has a HS2 contract
must be 20+ years of gravy if done right ...

The pigs have been lining up for a while now. As usual contractors will make fantastic sums of money, there will be shortcomings, enquiries, extended time frames, extended budgets and when the next big project comes up in 100 years, perhaps something truly progressive, people will say not to make the same mistakes we did on HS2.

About 30% of the increased cost is purely down to the government changing procurement policy which has greatly affected the costs incurred by the contractors involved. The government is trying to shift the infrastructure risk onto the contractors for the next 30 years rather than simply signing off the work as done and then the government (via NR) taking full ownership and responsibility for it.

As was said in another thread, it’s like buying a car and buying an extended warranty to last 30 years on it. They’ll sell you one but you’ll wanna sit down when you get the quote.

[anonymous-user]

powerstroke said:

Ok so its going ahead , open cheque book ,money spraying about .. no questions asked got to be done regardless..so
How does one get on the teat , start a business? if so what ?? or best company to work for that has a HS2 contract
must be 20+ years of gravy if done right ...

I suspect there are a lot of contractors who will be thinking this will be their last every job and pay for their retirement.

As you say, once the chequebook is opened it won't be closed until the end, budgets and cost estimates will be irrelevant.

[Condi]

Joey Deacon said:

I suspect there are a lot of contractors who will be thinking this will be their last every job and pay for their retirement.

As you say, once the chequebook is opened it won't be closed until the end, budgets and cost estimates will be irrelevant.

But as has been said above, the reasons for that are more around the length of time they are responsible for the work for than any price gouging now.

If you had to do a piece of work, and in 29 years time be prepared to fix whatever had gone wrong with it, what would you charge now?

[Digga]

The elephant in the room for infrastructure is the growth in population, in conjunction with the growth of the economy.



You can only put the cart before the horse for so long.

[dazwalsh]

scottydoesntknow said:

PRTVR said:

A YouTube video with views on HS2 and re opening old lines.

https://youtu.be/Nf5avCUNP0M

Very interesting.

i have no interest in trains whatsoever but i could probably enjoy a few hours in the pub with that chap.

He also talks a lot of sense, and shows how the whole rail network improves because of HS2.

[Digga]

dazwalsh said:

scottydoesntknow said:

PRTVR said:

A YouTube video with views on HS2 and re opening old lines.

https://youtu.be/Nf5avCUNP0M

Very interesting.

i have no interest in trains whatsoever but i could probably enjoy a few hours in the pub with that chap.

He also talks a lot of sense, and shows how the whole rail network improves because of HS2.

A natural video 'explainer' isn't he? I really enjoyed that anyway and found it ten times more useful and instructive than any of the ste the mainstream media have peddled on the subject.

[anonymous-user]

That video above is very informative so thanks for posting.

I learned a lot from it and I love a school day

[amgmcqueen]

A sickening waste of taxpayers money. Then again the fat charlatan likes pissing our money up the wall!

tt.