Taking the knee

[jimPH]

bhstewie said:

jimPH said:

For every young white chap who is murdered, 24 black chaps will be murdered.

It's a grim number.

Anyway this little diversion came about from pointing out how much Rashford has done to help all vulnerable children (imagine the outcry if he'd ran a campaign aimed only at black children) and Mike suggesting he could have chosen on an issue such as absent black fathers.

Either way it's got nothing to do with why someone who is doing nothing to the point they've been made an MBE for their work still receives banana and monkey emojis on a regular basis.

Whilst it's a reprehensible act, I don't think online racism is the reason the knee started. Online abuse is wide and varied and not just strictly racist, in fact online bullying has led to loss of life on more than a few occasions, but no one's taking a knee for them. All the Leicester players were getting snake emoji's when raneiri was let go, if you want to make it about online abuse, get some perspective.

[chrispmartha]

Oh and on the absent father thing causing crime, Asian families in the UK i believe have the highest percentage of ‘nuclear families’ but I can well imagine his thoughts on Muslims and young asian men in this country.

[Countdown]

jimPH said:

I wasn't addressing that, because they don't.

I was putting forward a known stat that underlines one of the biggest issues within that community and its not racism.

Racism does exist, but its no more or less prevalent than any other derogatory comment made between angry/upset/fighting/idiotic individuals.

At the risk of taking this thread off course I really don't think they're the same thing. Insults between two angry/upset individuals or groups is one thing. Getting abused or attacked by a random stranger (or group of strangers) purely because of the colour of your skin is something entirely different.

It's a bit like saying "Mugging exists but it's no more prevalent than derogatory comments made between individuals"

[bitchstewie]

chrispmartha said:

It is a grim number and the issues are far more complex than its just ‘blacks killing blacks’ or ‘blacks do most crime’ narratives that people like mikestroud come out with.

To say racism and historical systematic racism hasn’t got anything to do with socioeconomics and why certain ethnic groups are in there is naive at best.

I struggle with little gems such as this.

"I really don't think that taking a knee will change peoples perceptions as it completely fails to address the root cause of why people feel how they do."

"Championing taking the knee and cancel culture will NEVER address the ROOT causes of why racism exists towards black people."

Can someone let me know the ROOT cause that means Rashford and Sterling (both MBEs for their excellent work) get racist abuse?

[bitchstewie]

jimPH said:

Whilst it's a reprehensible act, I don't think online racism is the reason the knee started. Online abuse is wide and varied and not just strictly racist, in fact online bullying has led to loss of life on more than a few occasions, but no one's taking a knee for them. All the Leicester players were getting snake emoji's when raneiri was let go, if you want to make it about online abuse, get some perspective.

I have some perspective.

It's why I'm not losing my st over someone kneeling down for 5 seconds before a football match.

[popeyewhite]

bhstewie said:

I have some perspective.

It's why I'm not losing my st over someone kneeling down for 5 seconds before a football match.

Well when it's dispensed with altogether you won't have to even bother multiple posting on the subject.

[jimPH]

Countdown said:

jimPH said:

I wasn't addressing that, because they don't.

I was putting forward a known stat that underlines one of the biggest issues within that community and its not racism.

Racism does exist, but its no more or less prevalent than any other derogatory comment made between angry/upset/fighting/idiotic individuals.

At the risk of taking this thread off course I really don't think they're the same thing. Insults between two angry/upset individuals or groups is one thing. Getting abused or attacked by a random stranger (or group of strangers) purely because of the colour of your skin is something entirely different.

It's a bit like saying "Mugging exists but it's no more prevalent than derogatory comments made between individuals"

What makes you think it's purely a racist reason? All celebrities no doubt get some form of abuse, Christian Fuchs wrote a long and detailed reply to the constant snake emoji's that he was getting. People are just pressing buttons.

I'm not saying it's OK, but online abuse doesn't always have racism as it's cause, but they would be deemed as racist acts by their nature which distorts the picture.

We both know that's not the reason players are getting down on one knee. This whole thing is not about rashford being upset about emoji's.

[Randy Winkman]

popeyewhite said:

bhstewie said:

I have some perspective.

It's why I'm not losing my st over someone kneeling down for 5 seconds before a football match.

Well when it's dispensed with altogether you won't have to even bother multiple posting on the subject.

I'm with Stewie. It's the people booing and their supporters that seem to have the problem.

Booing is what children do at a pantomime isn't it?

[popeyewhite]

Randy Winkman said:

popeyewhite said:

bhstewie said:

I have some perspective.

It's why I'm not losing my st over someone kneeling down for 5 seconds before a football match.

Well when it's dispensed with altogether you won't have to even bother multiple posting on the subject.

I'm with Stewie. It's the people booing and their supporters that seem to have the problem.

I wouldn't like to call it either way. You only have to look on here to see how divisive the subject is. Does that get in the way of the team's effort on the pitch (?)...would be my concern... .

[bitchstewie]

popeyewhite said:

Well when it's dispensed with altogether you won't have to even bother multiple posting on the subject.

When it's dispensed with that's fine by me.

I don't think I've once said that I think taking the knee is the perfect and ideal way to stand against racism.

I have criticised the people who are ignorant enough to boo their own team for how they choose to stand against it.

It's two different things.

[jimPH]

bhstewie said:

popeyewhite said:

Well when it's dispensed with altogether you won't have to even bother multiple posting on the subject.

When it's dispensed with that's fine by me.

I don't think I've once said that I think taking the knee is the perfect and ideal way to stand against racism.

I have criticised the people who are ignorant enough to boo their own team for how they choose to stand against it.

It's two different things.

People are criticising their repackaging of a gesture previously used to support BLM. The players are too ignorant to recognise it. It's a confusing message and isn't helping anyone, least of all Rashford. If he wants to reduce his emoji count, he's getting the wrong advice.

[bitchstewie]

jimPH said:

People are criticising their repackaging of a gesture previously used to support BLM. The players are too ignorant to recognise it. It's a confusing message and isn't helping anyone, least of all Rashford. If he wants to reduce his emoji count, he's getting the wrong advice.

There you go again Jim.

Suggesting that if Rashford wants to receive less racist abuse he needs to change his behaviour because it annoys the racists who send him that stuff.

[anonymous-user]

blackrabbit said:

Apply same rational to gypo's.

Here's a twist for you!

I am a descendant of a gypsy family (the Grey family of Lincolnshire who were horse traders). There was a whole thread on PH dedicated to slagging off gypsys. To be fair I can see why that thread existed. If Gypsys want a better press then they are better off looking within rather than blaming others. That is my point really, it's easy to blame others, sometimes you need to look within.

[anonymous-user]

chrispmartha said:

Oh and on the absent father thing causing crime, Asian families in the UK i believe have the highest percentage of ‘nuclear families’ but I can well imagine his thoughts on Muslims and young asian men in this country.

They are to be commended on how they look after family first. I think the West can learn a lot from looking after the elderly in the way they do instead of dumping them into a home for the Council to look after etc. The West used to be like this but changed for the worse imo.

Different cultures have different pros/cons. Don't write any of them off, you can learn good points from each.

[popeyewhite]

bhstewie said:

I have criticised the people who are ignorant enough to boo their own team for how they choose to stand against it.

It's two different things.

You obviously have made your mind up that all who boo are racist, but I don't think that is the case at all. I think some just want to watch football, after all, that is what they've paid for.

[bitchstewie]

popeyewhite said:

You obviously have made your mind up that all who boo are racist, but I don't think that is the case at all. I think some just want to watch football, after all, that is what they've paid for.

No I said they're ignorant.

Some will be racist but not all.

[popeyewhite]

bhstewie said:

No I said they're ignorant.

OK

How else should they show their displeasure in a similarly effective manner?

bhstewie said:

Some will be racist but not all.

What would you do if you'd paid good money to watch a sport and the participants took part in a group gesture in support of a movement you didn't believe in or you felt forced upon you?

[bitchstewie]

popeyewhite said:

What would you do if you'd paid good money to watch a sport and the participants took part in a group gesture in support of a movement you didn't believe in or you felt forced upon you?

If I didn't want to appear ignorant I'd probably listen to the players and the manager and the FA when they all say the gesture is against racism and isn't political and manage to keep quiet for the five seconds that they do it.

There are lots of things I don't like.

I'm not a fan of all the adverts they put on in the cinema but I don't boo I just play with my phone until the film starts.

It's really not difficult.

[blackrabbit]

MikeStroud said:

blackrabbit said:

Apply same rational to gypo's.

Here's a twist for you!

I am a descendant of a gypsy family (the Grey family of Lincolnshire who were horse traders). There was a whole thread on PH dedicated to slagging off gypsys. To be fair I can see why that thread existed. If Gypsys want a better press then they are better off looking within rather than blaming others. That is my point really, it's easy to blame others, sometimes you need to look within.

Totally agree. Some communities seem incapable of holding themselves to accountability and instead prefer self enriching activists to try and shift the blame to others. This kneeling to BLM crap by entitled ball kickers is just making many people more fed up with one community who seem to think they are a protected species and beyond accountability.

[anonymous-user]

blackrabbit said:

Totally agree. Some communities seem incapable of holding themselves to accountability and instead prefer self enriching activists to try and shift the blame to others. This kneeling to BLM crap by entitled ball kickers is just making many people more fed up with one community who seem to think they are a protected species and beyond accountability.

Seems odd.

Do you feel responsible for what someone from your “community” does? How are you classifying this group? Anyone British or the same ethnicity or maybe from your religion or town? Maybe supporters of the same political party?

I don’t look at white criminals or white racists and feel that it’s anything to do with me at all.

Imagine if some Chinese person said you (or your community) weren’t taking responsibility or doing anything about something that some chavs in your area did. You’d rightly tell them to stop being such bigots.