Woman arrested for silently praying near abortion clinic

[QJumper]

Evanivitch said:

Or perhaps they intimidated people enough that they exceeded the legal limit for abortion...

One could speculate without evidence on both sides of the argument. Such as how many women were intimidated into abortions by unwilling partners.

[Evanivitch]

QJumper said:

I don't see any evidence of any harm or harassment in what she was doing.

You didn't read the links then. Here they are.

Evanivitch said:

Yes, the woman outside the abortion clinic is the director of an organisation that harasses women outside abortion clinics.

https://www.marchforlife.co.uk/2023/09/29/this-is-...

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/apr/08/an...

[QJumper]

Evanivitch said:

You live on a different planet if your points of reference is cars, houses and holidays.

People are literally at financial dead ends. The cost of childcare is enormous, which makes the majority of work completely uneconomical for single mothers. The cost of rent in many areas is huge, and the ability to access state support is minimum.

The long term impacts both personal and on wider society for mother and child are huge, and the mother has that decision to make.

I actually agree with that argument, which is one reason as to why I'm not opposed to abortion.

That said, accidental pregnancy isn't a virus that people catch without fault. It's largely a result of irresponsibility and poor choices. As such, whilst people have a right to terminate a pregnancy, that doesn't mean they have a right to a free pass from alternative views.

[QJumper]

Evanivitch said:

QJumper said:

I don't see any evidence of any harm or harassment in what she was doing.

You didn't read the links then. Here they are.

Evanivitch said:

Yes, the woman outside the abortion clinic is the director of an organisation that harasses women outside abortion clinics.

https://www.marchforlife.co.uk/2023/09/29/this-is-...

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/apr/08/an...

I read the links, and they said nothing about how her silently praying resulted in harm or harsssment.

I'll ask another question though. If it was different woman praying, with no affiliation to those bodies, would that be ok?

[smn159]

QJumper said:

I'll ask another question though. If it was different woman praying, with no affiliation to those bodies, would that be ok?

No. Anyone who seriously believes that they can communicate with supernatural beings and makes choices on behalf of others as a result of these beliefs is a menace to society and should undergo psychiatric assessment as a priority.

[Rufus Stone]

smn159 said:

No. Anyone who seriously believes that they can communicate with supernatural beings and makes choices on behalf of others as a result of these beliefs is a menace to society and should undergo psychiatric assessment as a priority.

And yet religious belief is protected in law.

[Evanivitch]

QJumper said:

I read the links, and they said nothing about how her silently praying resulted in harm or harsssment.

I'll ask another question though. If it was different woman praying, with no affiliation to those bodies, would that be ok?

Again, you're ignoring the context argument.

She has a history of harassment. If you knew that, would you still approach? Or does your privileged position mean you're afraid of no one?

[Evanivitch]

QJumper said:

That said, accidental pregnancy isn't a virus that people catch without fault. It's largely a result of irresponsibility and poor choices. As such, whilst people have a right to terminate a pregnancy, that doesn't mean they have a right to a free pass from alternative views.

By all means I'm open to an honest and Humanist discussion on abortion. If people want to voice religious views then go ahead, but it's an impossible point to counter.

But "alternative views" isn't permission to harass people or intimidate them receiving medical care.

[QJumper]

Evanivitch said:

Again, you're ignoring the context argument.

She has a history of harassment. If you knew that, would you still approach? Or does your privileged position mean you're afraid of no one?

As an educated guess I'd aasume that most women going to an abortion clinic wouldn't know who this woman was, or her history. They'd just see some oddball praying.

[QJumper]

smn159 said:

No. Anyone who seriously believes that they can communicate with supernatural beings and makes choices on behalf of others as a result of these beliefs is a menace to society and should undergo psychiatric assessment as a priority.

So you'd be ok with it if was an atheist protesting it then?

[andyeds1234]

andyA700 said:

andyeds1234 said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

andyeds1234 said:

It has been explained umpteen times in this thread that the woman in question was arrested because she was constantly harassing vulnerable women.

It wasn't constant. Because at the time of her arrest, she wasn't doing that, she was just silently praying. That's a fact that isn't in dispute.

Are you in favour of arresting someone for speeding when they weren't speeding, because they have a past record of speeding?

If someone was banned from driving because of their record of putting other road users at risk, including speeding, then yes, they should expect to be arrested if they get behind the wheel.

Yet another example of you using a totally different scenario to attempt to justify your point.
Well, you just failed.

I can’t be held responsible for your inability to comprehend a simple point.
Also, as reading doesn’t seem to be your thing, take a look again, you might notice I didn’t bring the driving analogy to the conversation.
Appreciate your stellar contribution to the topic though…

Edited by andyeds1234 on Tuesday 21st November 19:00

[QJumper]

Evanivitch said:

By all means I'm open to an honest and Humanist discussion on abortion. If people want to voice religious views then go ahead, but it's an impossible point to counter.

But "alternative views" isn't permission to harass people or intimidate them receiving medical care.

That's fair enough, and I also don't believe that people should be harassed or threatened for their choices. I'm just not convinced that this specific action amounts to harassment or intimidation.

[CoolHands]

No one should be protesting near a clinic, and that’s what she’s doing.

[Blue62]

JuanCarlosFandango said:

I'm pretty sure this bit is telling. I don't see over population as a problem at all, and I think it's endlessly sad that significant numbers of women see a viable, healthy baby as a burden they would undergo surgery to avoid. I also think it's sad that they get into the situation of an unwanted pregnancy in the first place but then I'm a stodgy old conservative who believes sex should be treated as the important, intimate and productive act it can be, not a recreation activity which can be overcome wirh medicine.

My point was about over population in developing countries, that simply cannot support a glowing population. So many problems stem from that.

[Ridgemont]

smn159 said:

QJumper said:

I'll ask another question though. If it was different woman praying, with no affiliation to those bodies, would that be ok?

No. Anyone who seriously believes that they can communicate with supernatural beings and makes choices on behalf of others as a result of these beliefs is a menace to society and should undergo psychiatric assessment as a priority.

Well that escalated quickly.

Really? Any belief in a religion (monotheistic, polytheistic, animistic) immediately invalidates their rights?

Good job! Impressive!

[Ridgemont]

CoolHands said:

No one should be protesting near a clinic, and that’s what she’s doing.

But she isn’t. She was, in this case, standing there silently praying.
Are you now criminalising prayer in a public place?

[TwigtheWonderkid]

CoolHands said:

No one should be protesting near a clinic, and that’s what she’s doing.

No she wasn't. No one can seriously class one person in silent prayer as a protest. Not by any stretch of the imagination.

[Digger]

What is the difference between praying at home & praying in a public place?

Surely the former is preferable, & the latter could be seen as at the very least attention-seeking?

[The Rotrex Kid]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

CoolHands said:

No one should be protesting near a clinic, and that’s what she’s doing.

No she wasn't. No one can seriously class one person in silent prayer as a protest. Not by any stretch of the imagination.

I would disagree, as would the PSPO enacted around the exact area she was in.

https://www.birmingham.gov.uk/download/downloads/i...

Prayer, whether verbal or non verbal is still prayer and it’s prohibited in that area.

She can just go do her silent prayer to her make believe diety round the corner. Pretty simple innit.

11 months and 70 pages and we’re still having this ‘but but it was just a little silent prayer, suck it up snowflakes’ type comments. Bizarre.

[CoolHands]

It was clearly a protest or she wouldn’t be there. To do it publicly near an abortion clinic is a method of protest. I think some places such as abortion clinics should have exclusion zones around them to prevent anybody protesting in any way. If her method was silent prayer it’s no different to if she was holding up banners.