Council tax rises get go-ahead

[crankedup]

markcoznottz said:

Jinx said:

markcoznottz said:

Well you can definitely see what's coming. Road pricing, monthly bin collections, charging for all council services, seen as not core services. Maybe charging for gp appointments, but that's a hot potato. It still won't be enough.

Bin collection is the core council service - the only one I notice anyway

You won't notice it as much soon, monthly collections and smaller bins within 4 years nationwide. Eu landfill directive will be of course followed to the letter by our mandarins, and it saves the council money as well. Some of the council tips charging for waste, they seem quite steep, this is bound to lead to fly tipping etc.

Yes it wouldn’t surprise me at all if that is the road we are still on. Meanwhile Councils are spending tens of million pounds clearing fly tipping, not to mention the anger rising in people’s voices or thoughts.
As always it’s a closed box thought pattern at work in Council offices.

[BlackLabel]

A voluntary tax to fund ‘work placements for young people, beds for rough sleepers and extra visitors for lonely elderly people in the area’.

Would anyone here sign up?




https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/communities/n...

Edited by BlackLabel on Sunday 11th February 21:36

[Yipper]

Someone needs to start a new political party.

UKOP.

UK Overspending Party.

Stop all these local council morons stealing your cash (It's not theirs) and wasting it.

[Welshbeef]

My local council from Apr 2018 will only be in receipt of £2m central grant - it was £60m in Apr2010... as suchit feels pretty good now that we know there is no subsidy from less well off areas coming in here and likewise we pay for ourselves no cash going elsewhere.

Green bin is £50 a year for 2 bins - why it’s separate god knows but it’s not even a £1 a week so given getting to and from the dump would cost more in fuel and hassle by a long way it’s fine.

What I don’t get is spending on daft little projects which have not once helped with congestion instead been a nightmare to live through the build

[anonymous-user]

Yipper said:

Someone needs to start a new political party.

UKOP.

UK Overspending Party.

Stop all these local council morons stealing your cash (It's not theirs) and wasting it.

Shut up.

A few quid a year, actually less than the average bar bill is what mine was raised by. As usual it's just the mindless who are outraged.

[CoolHands]

Does the 100k a year crime commissioner’s snout come out of council tax?

[crankedup]

Welshbeef said:

My local council from Apr 2018 will only be in receipt of £2m central grant - it was £60m in Apr2010... as suchit feels pretty good now that we know there is no subsidy from less well off areas coming in here and likewise we pay for ourselves no cash going elsewhere.

Green bin is £50 a year for 2 bins - why it’s separate god knows but it’s not even a £1 a week so given getting to and from the dump would cost more in fuel and hassle by a long way it’s fine.

What I don’t get is spending on daft little projects which have not once helped with congestion instead been a nightmare to live through the build

How is the Social welfare going, that’s the big money extraction?

[crankedup]

BlackLabel said:

A voluntary tax to fund ‘work placements for young people, beds for rough sleepers and extra visitors for lonely elderly people in the area’.

Would anyone here sign up?




https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/communities/n...

Edited by BlackLabel on Sunday 11th February 21:36

As thier residents enjoy what amounts to the most generous central Government handout resulting in the lowest Council tax charge for thier residents! Maybe they can afford to be generous with thier time and money.

[dazwalsh]

Welshbeef said:

My local council from Apr 2018 will only be in receipt of £2m central grant - it was £60m in Apr2010... as suchit feels pretty good now that we know there is no subsidy from less well off areas coming in here and likewise we pay for ourselves no cash going elsewhere.

Green bin is £50 a year for 2 bins - why it’s separate god knows but it’s not even a £1 a week so given getting to and from the dump would cost more in fuel and hassle by a long way it’s fine.

What I don’t get is spending on daft little projects which have not once helped with congestion instead been a nightmare to live through the build

Do you reckon when money was free flowing pre 2010 that a large proportion of that 60 million was pissed away and wasted?

Thats the impression i get, that councils were letting the good tines roll, and were able to absorb a huge cut in funding by removing waste and dead wood, but perhaps now its gone just a tad too far and core services are starting to suffer. So im 50/50 about cuts to council funding, it has been a good thing in getting them to be more lean and efficient but now people are starting to suffer, and im not talking about a closed library or less frequent bin collections, more the care of the vulnerable.

[Countdown]

sidicks said:

2. Surveys suggest that (for comparable jobs) pay in the public sector is broadly in line with the private sector. Hence the big justification for massive pension benefits no longer exists.

We seem to have this debate every year. So who gets paid more

1. BUPA nurses or NHS?
2. BUPA doctors or NHS?
3. Private school teachers or State school?
4. Finance Directors of a major County Council or a FTSE250 company?

One of the reasons why Public Sector is so relatively expensive is because they have to remove the risk of absolutely EVERYTHING.

[Countdown]

markcoznottz said:

Jinx said:

markcoznottz said:

Well you can definitely see what's coming. Road pricing, monthly bin collections, charging for all council services, seen as not core services. Maybe charging for gp appointments, but that's a hot potato. It still won't be enough.

Bin collection is the core council service - the only one I notice anyway

You won't notice it as much soon, monthly collections and smaller bins within 4 years nationwide. Eu landfill directive will be of course followed to the letter by our mandarins, and it saves the council money as well. Some of the council tips charging for waste, they seem quite steep, this is bound to lead to fly tipping etc.

As a general point if we didn’t have so many “fk everybody else I’m alright” expletive in our society we wouldn’t need to spend as much money on the Nanny State.

bah humbug.

[Welshbeef]

dazwalsh said:

Welshbeef said:

My local council from Apr 2018 will only be in receipt of £2m central grant - it was £60m in Apr2010... as suchit feels pretty good now that we know there is no subsidy from less well off areas coming in here and likewise we pay for ourselves no cash going elsewhere.

Green bin is £50 a year for 2 bins - why it’s separate god knows but it’s not even a £1 a week so given getting to and from the dump would cost more in fuel and hassle by a long way it’s fine.

What I don’t get is spending on daft little projects which have not once helped with congestion instead been a nightmare to live through the build

Do you reckon when money was free flowing pre 2010 that a large proportion of that 60 million was pissed away and wasted?

Thats the impression i get, that councils were letting the good tines roll, and were able to absorb a huge cut in funding by removing waste and dead wood, but perhaps now its gone just a tad too far and core services are starting to suffer. So im 50/50 about cuts to council funding, it has been a good thing in getting them to be more lean and efficient but now people are starting to suffer, and im not talking about a closed library or less frequent bin collections, more the care of the vulnerable.

Absolutely.

The downsides I have noticed far more often post 2010 is potholes and he time it takes to fix them - or a temp fix then it’s ruined again in a couple of weeks.

[ClaphamGT3]

Digga said:

crankedup said:

Whatever gives you this idea ^^^^^^^^^, our local council is brilliant with low taxes and good services, guess we struck lucky maybe.
[/quoteThat's as maybe, and I'm not averse to taxes raising if finances dictate, but there is the (very) thorny issue of council executive pay - which also impacts into the pensions issue- that is in need of reform. It is almost uncontrolled right now.

From memory, the highest paid LA chief exec in the U.K. Is Paul Martin of LB Wandsworth on £240k per annum. There are a tiny handful of U.K. chief Execs earning over £200k and even quite a lot of large urban Mets have Chiefs earning south of £150k. Tier 2 officers typically earn in the £75-150k bracket. These are people running major, complex organisations, employing thousands of people and accountable budgets nudging £1bn per annum. They are required to run critical services and under a personal, statutory obligation to protect the most vulnerable people in society.

I am no socialist - indeed I'm a passionate believer in small Govt - but I am amazed that they find people to do it for the money

[spaximus]

Welshbeef said:

dazwalsh said:

Welshbeef said:

My local council from Apr 2018 will only be in receipt of £2m central grant - it was £60m in Apr2010... as suchit feels pretty good now that we know there is no subsidy from less well off areas coming in here and likewise we pay for ourselves no cash going elsewhere.

Green bin is £50 a year for 2 bins - why it’s separate god knows but it’s not even a £1 a week so given getting to and from the dump would cost more in fuel and hassle by a long way it’s fine.

What I don’t get is spending on daft little projects which have not once helped with congestion instead been a nightmare to live through the build

Do you reckon when money was free flowing pre 2010 that a large proportion of that 60 million was pissed away and wasted?

Thats the impression i get, that councils were letting the good tines roll, and were able to absorb a huge cut in funding by removing waste and dead wood, but perhaps now its gone just a tad too far and core services are starting to suffer. So im 50/50 about cuts to council funding, it has been a good thing in getting them to be more lean and efficient but now people are starting to suffer, and im not talking about a closed library or less frequent bin collections, more the care of the vulnerable.

Absolutely.

The downsides I have noticed far more often post 2010 is potholes and he time it takes to fix them - or a temp fix then it’s ruined again in a couple of weeks.

I work with councils on local projects and the problem as I see it is that too many have never worked in the private sector so have no idea of how easy their jobs and conditions are working for councils.

This is not the manual works I think they do a pretty good job but office staff really do not work as hard but feel they are being pushed beyond the limit.

Waste has been cut but now they are cutting service rather than back office function jobs and yet they can find money for pet projects.

South Glos council want to spend extending their car park as staff find it difficult to park, whilst at the same time trying to reduce parking outside new homes to drive people onto public transport.

They can fund various groups, like LGBT youth for example, but are cutting care for elderly. They have just spent hundreds of thousands replacing all the bins we have with much smaller ones as it will reduce waste, no it will not it will increase flytipping.

Yate Town council who get there money from South Glos have just spent £35k to buy a piece of land that a developer has been refused PP on, the rational is to stop them trying again why?

There is a lot of waste still to come out. I worked at a company and was sent on a course. At the course we were told of a project in the states where they had asked for cost cutting and not one single department came up with any meaningful ones. So they swapped department heads and told them to look at each others departments and see what they could find as savings had to be made. Unsurprisingly they found lots of savings in each others departments and achieved greater savings than was originally asked for in the process.

Asking a department head to save money they have worked hard to get in the first place is never the best way.

Having said all that If we are going to have increases in the minimum wages and want to look after older people in care properly, we need to accept there needs to be increases contributions from us all. I am happy to do that but it must all be used wisely.

[crankedup]

ClaphamGT3 said:

Digga said:

crankedup said:

Whatever gives you this idea ^^^^^^^^^, our local council is brilliant with low taxes and good services, guess we struck lucky maybe.
[/quoteThat's as maybe, and I'm not averse to taxes raising if finances dictate, but there is the (very) thorny issue of council executive pay - which also impacts into the pensions issue- that is in need of reform. It is almost uncontrolled right now.

From memory, the highest paid LA chief exec in the U.K. Is Paul Martin of LB Wandsworth on £240k per annum. There are a tiny handful of U.K. chief Execs earning over £200k and even quite a lot of large urban Mets have Chiefs earning south of £150k. Tier 2 officers typically earn in the £75-150k bracket. These are people running major, complex organisations, employing thousands of people and accountable budgets nudging £1bn per annum. They are required to run critical services and under a personal, statutory obligation to protect the most vulnerable people in society.

I am no socialist - indeed I'm a passionate believer in small Govt - but I am amazed that they find people to do it for the money

Don’t overlook the pension they will be earning.
Full sickness benefits
They are not responsible to anybody except Council Members, who are generally thickheads.
Many Councils will be the small backwaters of low pressure and low cost of living.
Why should they earn more then the PM.
Most will not be of Councils with thousands of people, they are running an organisation that largely outsources.
My opinion is that thier salaries look small owing to the overblown pay structures in London.

[sidicks]

Countdown said:

sidicks said:

2. Surveys suggest that (for comparable jobs) pay in the public sector is broadly in line with the private sector. Hence the big justification for massive pension benefits no longer exists.

We seem to have this debate every year. So who gets paid more

1. BUPA nurses or NHS?
2. BUPA doctors or NHS?
3. Private school teachers or State school?
4. Finance Directors of a major County Council or a FTSE250 company?

I guess you are in danger of comparing wages with total remuneration? What sort of final salary benefit pensions are provided to BUPA doctors and nurses?

Are those particular nurses / doctors typical of the quality of the average employee in the NHS?

Likewise with the comparison of the teachers.

The comparison between a Council FD and a FTSE 250 FD is laughable.

Countdown said:

One of the reasons why Public Sector is so relatively expensive is because they have to remove the risk of absolutely EVERYTHING.

I guess that is why the Public Sector never makes any mistakes and never has to pay out compensation for error / negligence...

[Countdown]

sidicks said:

I guess you are in danger of comparing wages with total remuneration? What sort of final salary benefit pensions are provided to BUPA doctors and nurses?

You made the assertion that they were "broadly comparable" so that suggests you've already done the calculation. care to share?

sidicks said:

Are those particular nurses / doctors typical of the quality of the average employee in the NHS?

Given that most of the nurses are recruited from the NHS (and many "BUPA" consultants are usually working in the NHS at the same time) I'd suggest they are.

sidicks said:

Likewise with the comparison of the teachers.

It's a lot harder being a teacher in a State school that in a private school. I have experience of both.

sidicks said:

The comparison between a Council FD and a FTSE 250 FD is laughable.

Bit harsh on FTSE250 FDs but I understand where you're coming from.

[R8Steve]

After a 22.5% rise in ours last year i'm certainly hoping there isn't any further rises from my council this year!

[oyster]

REALIST123 said:

oyster said:

It's amazing value for money in my opinion.
For £3k a year I get local roads maintained, local kids educated, local oldies looked after, my bins emptied, the streets kept clean and so on.

Compared to the amount of central government tax I get clobbered with, it's amazing value.

An odd and naive view.

Over 60% of what local government spends comes from central government, the ‘government tax’ that you get clobbered with, in addition to your £3k.

That’s the cost of you getting “local roads maintained, local kids educated, local oldies looked after, my bins emptied, the streets kept clean and so on”.

Still think it’s good value?

which re-enforces my view even further - Council Tax is a complete bargain.

[sidicks]

Countdown said:

You made the assertion that they were "broadly comparable" so that suggests you've already done the calculation. care to share?

Does that mean you’ve NOT seen the ONS survey on this?

Numerous versions of this around, but try this for a start.
https://visual.ons.gov.uk/is-pay-higher-in-the-pub...

ONS article said:

Public sector workers earned 1% less per hour, on average, than private sector workers with equivalent characteristics in 2016, initial ONS analysis shows.

Countdown said:

Given that most of the nurses are recruited from the NHS (and many "BUPA" consultants are usually working in the NHS at the same time) I'd suggest they are.

Do you think they recruit the best ones or the worst ones or just the ‘average ones’?

Countdown said:

It's a lot harder being a teacher in a State school that in a private school. I have experience of both.

I’m sure it is - as above, do you think that the private sector recruits the best teachers or the worst teachers or the ‘average teachers’?

Regardless, the thread was about council workers.

Read the ONS survey then tell me why these workers deserve massive pensions!

Countdown said:

Bit harsh on FTSE250 FDs but I understand where you're coming from.

Predictable, but wrong.

Edited by sidicks on Monday 12th February 16:54