Quitaly - the Italians are next
Discussion
Derek Smith said:
. He reckons the real difference between our countries is the backhanders.
It is an easy mistake to make, I think, to judge another country on those of your own.
On my first visit to Florence I watched an old guy probably in his 70's quite smartly dressed spot a stunning woman coming his way. He promptly took a left into a shop Door way to check his appearance in a window and reappeared chest puffed out and made his way towards this thing of beauty who was probably old enough to be his Grand Daughter. I adore the Italian culture is barking mad and when you get down South to Bari or Naples its completely different again. The North reckon most of their Taxes go to supporting the South whilst the South just don't give a hoot. I don't think they have a word for "Angst". Thank God we are all differentIt is an easy mistake to make, I think, to judge another country on those of your own.
Derek Smith said:
Gargamel said:
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I tend to agree Derek, though I am a prophet of doom for the survival of the Euro as a currency, I don't think this referendum is going to be the cause of it.
Too much is being put on it as it fits the story arc of a global rise in "populism" ( which I think is weird for democracies anyway). By definition you must be popular to win.
Renzi never won a vote, so him being dumped at the first chance is hardly that surprising, he made it into a vote on his own credibility and lost. Italy has many ongoing, long term economic problems..but I can't see them voting out of the EU. The Brits are a special case, perfidious and difficult to rule. I don't think Italy has really got the stones to walk away from the club, or suffer the very real short term problems that would create.
I too can see the end of the Euro, and I also agree that this vote will have no effect on the date.I tend to agree Derek, though I am a prophet of doom for the survival of the Euro as a currency, I don't think this referendum is going to be the cause of it.
Too much is being put on it as it fits the story arc of a global rise in "populism" ( which I think is weird for democracies anyway). By definition you must be popular to win.
Renzi never won a vote, so him being dumped at the first chance is hardly that surprising, he made it into a vote on his own credibility and lost. Italy has many ongoing, long term economic problems..but I can't see them voting out of the EU. The Brits are a special case, perfidious and difficult to rule. I don't think Italy has really got the stones to walk away from the club, or suffer the very real short term problems that would create.
Italian politics is rather odd, almost unique, at least in the western world. A friend of mine got pally with some Italians who lived in the mountains and considered themselves communist. He brought them to my place when I was having a BBQ, and he'd warned me not to speak politics. Some hope. It was all this chap spoke. But it turned out that communist in Italy means, more or less, anti fascist and anti corruption, but very fiercely so with lots of pointing. The chap himself was a capitalist by practice.
I like Italy but it wouldn't be so nice without the Italian culture. I've got an English mate who lives in Italy, having lived in Rome, Milan and Naples. He reckons the real difference between our countries is the backhanders.
It is an easy mistake to make, I think, to judge another country on those of your own.
He said as well, that the best thing about Italy was that people generally do what they want; but that that was also the worst thing about Italy.
The Euro won't be allowed to collapse all what will happen is more money will be printed.
What will the Italians do go back to their silly money they had before? I doubt it.
We here in the U.K have the hope that because we are supposed to be leaving they will all follow us in the rest of Europe.
It didn't work in Austria and Le Pen won't achieve anything either in France.
What will the Italians do go back to their silly money they had before? I doubt it.
We here in the U.K have the hope that because we are supposed to be leaving they will all follow us in the rest of Europe.
It didn't work in Austria and Le Pen won't achieve anything either in France.
pim said:
It didn't work in Austria and Le Pen won't achieve anything either in France.
The Austrian Presidential election went the way it did because all of the mainstream candidates failed to get sufficient support and their parties fell in behind the Green's candidate. That obviously won't happen in the Governmental election that is due at the end of next year or in 2018. If you look at the polls they are showing the far right party a good way ahead, though polls and it's a good way off. However I wouldn't be reading as much into the presidential result as you are.Le Pen in France is interesting, she might be a bit too extreme to win on the one hand. On the other the French system means that she'll go head to head with one other candidate, if they're enough of a d
head then anything could happen.EarlOfHazard said:
Was chatting to an Italian couple who owned the flat that I rented for a long weekend in Rome. I said that it must be lovely to live there -in Rome- to which the husband said Italy is a great place to visit, but not to live. The taxes are prohibitively high.
He said as well, that the best thing about Italy was that people generally do what they want; but that that was also the worst thing about Italy.
I've been to Italy a few times, and came back from Maiori in September, and really envied the lifestyle. Not so much laid back as horizontal. He said as well, that the best thing about Italy was that people generally do what they want; but that that was also the worst thing about Italy.
Further north it's a bit less relaxed. I had a friend who set up a bar/restaurant in Rome, ironically enough in converted police barracks, and had a local chap help him with the bribes for the local officials. Then, once they opened, the police came round every day for 'un caffè' but which always included breakfast. He said that profits were low but could cope with the loss. But at the end of the month, the police arrived for their 'cut', that's the cut of expected profits, not of what he took. Always with a smile though.
Had he not complied, his licence would have been checked and non-compliance would have caused its removal.
But they always smiled.
EarlOfHazard said:
I said that it must be lovely to live there -in Rome- to which the husband said Italy is a great place to visit, but not to live.
I lived and worked there for many years, love the place - it's a great country to visit and live in but I found working there frustrating.Having returned here for some sanity I often wish I had stayed, but if I had know I'd have been wanting to leave.
A real love/hate relationship, as I get older though I'm feeling more inclined to return...
powerstroke said:
///ajd said:
£ back to 1.18/euro.
The blip to 1.20 was short lived.
Good news for a change , there i was for a minute thinking we were going to be flooded with a plague of Audis The blip to 1.20 was short lived.
I was half expecting the euro to take a real dip against the £ which would be good for the UK in theory, but its seems the No vote was not really a surprise to the markets.
So the "end of the Euro brexiteer wrecking crew" over egged the pudding a bit last night. Sell sell sell...oh too late.
///ajd said:
I was half expecting the euro to take a real dip against the £ which would be good for the UK in theory, but its seems the No vote was not really a surprise to the markets.
AFAIC the markets probably felt that whichever way the Italian vote went, their banks are still FUBARed, so perhaps just a little more uncertainty on the 'NO' vote, rather than 'YES', but not much.Surely we're all not familiar with the blips that result from any significant bit of financial or political news by now? As someone else said, buy on the rumour, sell on the news.
ash73 said:
Not sure I like the idea of the EU imploding, I like a peaceful Europe and I'm quite happy with the French and Germans paying for it while we do our own thing.
That's the inevitable thing with (quasi) communism though; eventually they run out of other people's money. The Germans are not, ever, going to be persuaded to fund the dreams of the Eurocrats to the extent their own finances are compromised.
When we leave it will ensure that Britain has control over our own destiny. In a world that's increasingly in the hands of Putin, the Chinese and Trump that's a reassuring position considering that the other option is Junckner, Merkle and a bunch of unknown bureaucrats in Brussels determining our future. The EU reminds me of the Borg from Star Trek and being assimilated is not good for you.
hifihigh said:
B'stard Child said:
I used that for my reason number 9......
Ever closer union - no ta junkers
You know and accept this...? Ever closer union - no ta junkers
My number will be red 5.
hifihigh said:
we should meet up after this is all done and compare notes.
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