Huge Fire In Block Of Flats
Discussion
Justin S said:
One of my engineers lives yards away and has painted a harrowing night. He is unable to get out of the street due to fire appliances everywhere. Understandably he is in total shock. He has witnessed the people jumping out the flats and dying rather than being burnt to death. He also saw people with phone torches in the night, but they have now gone. He said he has never seen anything like it. there were bodies everywhere. I also have a client who lives in those flats, which my engineer reminded me. I cant believe in this day and age that the risk of life in flats is obviously an issue which hasn't been resolved.
Just looked up the client and he lives in flat 105................
Those poor souls. Does 105 not mean first floor?Just looked up the client and he lives in flat 105................
Edited by Justin S on Wednesday 14th June 09:55
yellowjack said:
Adz The Rat said:
ambuletz said:
One of the eyewitnesses right now on BBC news (who lives on the 4th floor) said that his neighbours fridge exploded and caused the fire.
Do fridges explode? Ive never heard of one doing that.Horrible news to see this morning, those images on the first page look like something from a movie.
It must have been extremely difficult for those living high up to get out, it won't have been pretty inside and when full of smoke it must be near impossible to navigate.
Looks to be a futile attempt to get water anyway near the fire.
it shouldn't be gas related- there was a 60's disaster (Ronan Point) where a gas explosion in a tower block, collapsed one side.
since then, gas has either been removed, or never installed into high rise blocks.
what's worrying is the claims fire detection/smoke detection and sprinklers weren't sounding.
The CEO of the housing association could face prison for this.
since then, gas has either been removed, or never installed into high rise blocks.
what's worrying is the claims fire detection/smoke detection and sprinklers weren't sounding.
The CEO of the housing association could face prison for this.
The manufacturer of the cladding had this project on their web page until this morning, now the page is gone.
Old page is here in google's cache: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cac...
After this the whole idea of such cladding and the possibility of fascia fires is going to get an incredible amount of scrutiny, but as often happens people had to die before something happens.
Old page is here in google's cache: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cac...
After this the whole idea of such cladding and the possibility of fascia fires is going to get an incredible amount of scrutiny, but as often happens people had to die before something happens.
Some unconfirmed reports of dozens dead. Hundreds have lost their homes. After Brexit and London Bridge, London is getting kicked in the ribs. Looks brutal.
Got caught a few years ago in a 3-storey apartment fire. The blaze went from the size of a hand to engulfing an entire 3 storeys in under 500 seconds. Until you actually witness it first-hand, it is hard to believe or grasp just how quickly fire spreads. Those poor folks would have only had seconds to make decisions between life and death.
Got caught a few years ago in a 3-storey apartment fire. The blaze went from the size of a hand to engulfing an entire 3 storeys in under 500 seconds. Until you actually witness it first-hand, it is hard to believe or grasp just how quickly fire spreads. Those poor folks would have only had seconds to make decisions between life and death.
karma mechanic said:
The manufacturer of the cladding had this project on their web page until this morning, now the page is gone.
Old page is here in google's cache: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cac...
After this the whole idea of such cladding and the possibility of fascia fires is going to get an incredible amount of scrutiny, but as often happens people had to die before something happens.
No way Knauf (one of the biggest suppliers in the world) will have supplied any materials without proper fire certifications.Old page is here in google's cache: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cac...
After this the whole idea of such cladding and the possibility of fascia fires is going to get an incredible amount of scrutiny, but as often happens people had to die before something happens.
Zero chance id put my house on it.
Blue Oval84 said:
The "we need to investigate" response reminds me of the fire at the Tannery Development in, I think, Cantebury, a few years back.
That building was made of wood, and Bellway stated they would launch an urgent investigation to see how it could burn down so quickly when it caught fire. Well, I'm no scientist but I'd suggest the timber construction may have had a large impact.
How come people who should know better, seem to allow the installation of flammable building materials on high-rise blocks? Is it stupidity? Or are contractors buying in cheap stuff that doesn't meet the standards it claims to?
At this time of year I've no doubt it spread so quickly because most people will have had their windows open. I know I live in a low-rise concrete block and at this time of year the windows are open 24/7, if the cladding caught fire it would literally get into each flat and go up like a wick.
i lived in a apartment block built by a household name. During a routine maintenance job a builder discovered the apartment had 1/10th of the fireboard thickness needed by the fire regs. After a specialist surveyor did the whole building they discovered the basement carpark had no fireproofing at all and the firewall was insufficient to contain a car fire and the entire building would collapse. The building was evacuated the same day and we all ended up living in hotels. The investigation turned out the no-name building contractor hadn't even bothered fitting the required fire proofing according to the architect plans, and used the cheapest materials possiible because they were over-budget, everyone who should have noticed from the foreman to the building inspector basically paper signed off without even inspecting. Despite this catastrophic flaw the building still got its fire safety certificate and it was discovered over 2 years later conpletely by accident thanks to an eagle eyed kitchen fitter / builder.That building was made of wood, and Bellway stated they would launch an urgent investigation to see how it could burn down so quickly when it caught fire. Well, I'm no scientist but I'd suggest the timber construction may have had a large impact.
How come people who should know better, seem to allow the installation of flammable building materials on high-rise blocks? Is it stupidity? Or are contractors buying in cheap stuff that doesn't meet the standards it claims to?
At this time of year I've no doubt it spread so quickly because most people will have had their windows open. I know I live in a low-rise concrete block and at this time of year the windows are open 24/7, if the cladding caught fire it would literally get into each flat and go up like a wick.
You'd be shocked how the mountain of regs and procedures become worthless when a few people cut corners and the checks and balances get binned because people can't be arsed its friday, are behind budget or schedule or under pressure from head office to get it signed off asap and think 'it'll be fine.'
f
k me. Sounds like a fridge went up. Terrible results of an innocuous incident. RIP to those that have died.
Not the first time I have heard of this sort of thing in the news, and I have experience of one having entered a house where kitchen had gone up similarly in 1999, and led three people out as well as a pet Gheko!). All young men, all disoriented and affected by smoke, so incredibly quickly. I saw flames though kitchen window, legged it down the road, sould hear shouting so kicked in door and went in. Thankfully it was same layout as my mates house, I could see flip all.
They'd sort of gone "doo lally", conscious, but sort of drunk or stoned by the smoke.
Gheko was ok but his plastic container was well melted. The speed of it all was terrifying to be quite honest, I saw the flames and was inside within maybe 1 minute, and the place was completely ablaze and completely FULL of smoke.
Get wired smoke alarms and have a proper action plan for evacuation, and have options on that too if possible.
k me. Sounds like a fridge went up. Terrible results of an innocuous incident. RIP to those that have died. Not the first time I have heard of this sort of thing in the news, and I have experience of one having entered a house where kitchen had gone up similarly in 1999, and led three people out as well as a pet Gheko!). All young men, all disoriented and affected by smoke, so incredibly quickly. I saw flames though kitchen window, legged it down the road, sould hear shouting so kicked in door and went in. Thankfully it was same layout as my mates house, I could see flip all.
They'd sort of gone "doo lally", conscious, but sort of drunk or stoned by the smoke.
Gheko was ok but his plastic container was well melted. The speed of it all was terrifying to be quite honest, I saw the flames and was inside within maybe 1 minute, and the place was completely ablaze and completely FULL of smoke.
Get wired smoke alarms and have a proper action plan for evacuation, and have options on that too if possible.
Boydie88 said:
Justin S said:
One of my engineers lives yards away and has painted a harrowing night. He is unable to get out of the street due to fire appliances everywhere. Understandably he is in total shock. He has witnessed the people jumping out the flats and dying rather than being burnt to death. He also saw people with phone torches in the night, but they have now gone. He said he has never seen anything like it. there were bodies everywhere. I also have a client who lives in those flats, which my engineer reminded me. I cant believe in this day and age that the risk of life in flats is obviously an issue which hasn't been resolved.
Just looked up the client and he lives in flat 105................
Those poor souls. Does 105 not mean first floor?Just looked up the client and he lives in flat 105................
Edited by Justin S on Wednesday 14th June 09:55
austinsmirk said:
it shouldn't be gas related- there was a 60's disaster (Ronan Point) where a gas explosion in a tower block, collapsed one side.
since then, gas has either been removed, or never installed into high rise blocks.
That's what I thought, I was surprised to hear an eye witness saying new gas pipes were being installed (although eye witnesses don't necessarily know what they are talking about!)since then, gas has either been removed, or never installed into high rise blocks.
Very sad story.
SOme good posts here, KCTMO at fault? With known issues going back years? Cost-cutting by contractors, non-existent planning? As said people only pay lip service to regs.
I do agree about the media swarm, the 15/30 min update idea sounds more reasonable.
From a picture on the telly, a lot of the block seems crisped, but there are sections that don't seem touched, so the wet towel method would have worked there? Lower down.
SOme good posts here, KCTMO at fault? With known issues going back years? Cost-cutting by contractors, non-existent planning? As said people only pay lip service to regs.
I do agree about the media swarm, the 15/30 min update idea sounds more reasonable.
From a picture on the telly, a lot of the block seems crisped, but there are sections that don't seem touched, so the wet towel method would have worked there? Lower down.
john2443 said:
austinsmirk said:
it shouldn't be gas related- there was a 60's disaster (Ronan Point) where a gas explosion in a tower block, collapsed one side.
since then, gas has either been removed, or never installed into high rise blocks.
That's what I thought, I was surprised to hear an eye witness saying new gas pipes were being installed (although eye witnesses don't necessarily know what they are talking about!)since then, gas has either been removed, or never installed into high rise blocks.
Vaud said:
"Cotton can’t give any details on the number of victims. She says fire crews are making steady progress up the building. She says they have reached the 21st floor."
They haven't yet made it through the whole building. This is going to be truly awful.
I'm shocked that fire fighters have entered the building at all given the way it looks. I assume this means that the deformed exterior structure is the cladding, and not the actual structure of the original building then.They haven't yet made it through the whole building. This is going to be truly awful.
I thought that it looked like it might collapse by itself, and be unsafe to enter. Then there'd be no way to establish exactly how many casualties there were. Working through that mess is going to take a long time, and no doubt officialdom will wheel out the usual "lessons learned" and "more robust legislation" t
twaffle, only for people to forget this incident, and those all important lessons a few years down the line. Whereupon cost-cutting will become the priority once more, and the cycle will begin again. The longer the period between major incidents like this, the more relaxed people become about playing by the rules. Until it bites them on the arse.Sadly, I'm not even upset by these pictures. I just feel numb, and very very angry. All over London there are towering cranes putting up ever taller buildings, with architects and developers slapping each other on the back for a job well done. And all the while people have little choice but to live in blocks like this one with the huge risks involved. Unless these architects and engineers can solve the twin problems of evacuation and fire fighting in high rise structures, we really shouldn't be putting up so many of them.
I truly hope I'm wrong, but with 120 flats, that's potentially 480 individuals. With the fire advice having been "stay in your flats" (if this is true) then I'd be very surprised if the casualty numbers end up lower than three figures. Horrible to watch it unfold on television news, too.
austinsmirk said:
it shouldn't be gas related- there was a 60's disaster (Ronan Point) where a gas explosion in a tower block, collapsed one side.
since then, gas has either been removed, or never installed into high rise blocks.
what's worrying is the claims fire detection/smoke detection and sprinklers weren't sounding.
The CEO of the housing association could face prison for this.
According to the metrosince then, gas has either been removed, or never installed into high rise blocks.
what's worrying is the claims fire detection/smoke detection and sprinklers weren't sounding.
The CEO of the housing association could face prison for this.
http://metro.co.uk/2017/06/14/hero-grenfell-fire-r...
residents said refurbishment work had recently been carried out with cladding on the outside of the structure and work on the gas supply to the flats.
nyxster said:
Blue Oval84 said:
The "we need to investigate" response reminds me of the fire at the Tannery Development in, I think, Cantebury, a few years back.
That building was made of wood, and Bellway stated they would launch an urgent investigation to see how it could burn down so quickly when it caught fire. Well, I'm no scientist but I'd suggest the timber construction may have had a large impact.
How come people who should know better, seem to allow the installation of flammable building materials on high-rise blocks? Is it stupidity? Or are contractors buying in cheap stuff that doesn't meet the standards it claims to?
At this time of year I've no doubt it spread so quickly because most people will have had their windows open. I know I live in a low-rise concrete block and at this time of year the windows are open 24/7, if the cladding caught fire it would literally get into each flat and go up like a wick.
i lived in a apartment block built by a household name. During a routine maintenance job a builder discovered the apartment had 1/10th of the fireboard thickness needed by the fire regs. After a specialist surveyor did the whole building they discovered the basement carpark had no fireproofing at all and the firewall was insufficient to contain a car fire and the entire building would collapse. The building was evacuated the same day and we all ended up living in hotels. The investigation turned out the no-name building contractor hadn't even bothered fitting the required fire proofing according to the architect plans, and used the cheapest materials possiible because they were over-budget, everyone who should have noticed from the foreman to the building inspector basically paper signed off without even inspecting. Despite this catastrophic flaw the building still got its fire safety certificate and it was discovered over 2 years later conpletely by accident thanks to an eagle eyed kitchen fitter / builder.That building was made of wood, and Bellway stated they would launch an urgent investigation to see how it could burn down so quickly when it caught fire. Well, I'm no scientist but I'd suggest the timber construction may have had a large impact.
How come people who should know better, seem to allow the installation of flammable building materials on high-rise blocks? Is it stupidity? Or are contractors buying in cheap stuff that doesn't meet the standards it claims to?
At this time of year I've no doubt it spread so quickly because most people will have had their windows open. I know I live in a low-rise concrete block and at this time of year the windows are open 24/7, if the cladding caught fire it would literally get into each flat and go up like a wick.
You'd be shocked how the mountain of regs and procedures become worthless when a few people cut corners and the checks and balances get binned because people can't be arsed its friday, are behind budget or schedule or under pressure from head office to get it signed off asap and think 'it'll be fine.'
p1stonhead said:
No way Knauf (one of the biggest suppliers in the world) will have supplied any materials without proper fire certifications.
Zero chance id put my house on it.
I agree, the materials would have met all standards. However, the actual execution of the job may have fallen short of whatever standards are required. Or those standards aren't good enough for this situation. Zero chance id put my house on it.
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