Rolls Royce cars to be made in German factory due to brexit?
Discussion
SpeckledJim said:
We (the UK, inside the EU) don't generally have deals with the rest of the world, because the EU don't permit us to make our own, and the EU has proved itself incapable of doing it for itself.
Yeh, terrible.http://ec.europa.eu/trade/policy/countries-and-reg...
Now, what are the biggies missing from that list?
US? Yeh, TTIP falling apart was all the EU's fault, definitely... Nothing to do with the change of man at the top of the US for a protectionist halfwit.
India? That's been underway for a decade, but India put it on hold when Modi came in to power.
China? Perhaps when China sorts its intellectual property issues out...
TooMany2cvs said:
SpeckledJim said:
We (the UK, inside the EU) don't generally have deals with the rest of the world, because the EU don't permit us to make our own, and the EU has proved itself incapable of doing it for itself.
Yeh, terrible.http://ec.europa.eu/trade/policy/countries-and-reg...
Now, what are the biggies missing from that list?
US? Yeh, TTIP falling apart was all the EU's fault, definitely... Nothing to do with the change of man at the top of the US for a protectionist halfwit.
India? That's been underway for a decade, but India put it on hold when Modi came in to power.
China? Perhaps when China sorts its intellectual property issues out...
ETA: the EU and USA have been jaw-jawing since the 1990s. The reason they haven't got anywhere is not Donald Trump.
Edited by SpeckledJim on Thursday 21st September 12:52
Fat Fairy said:
I don't know about the Chinese side, but the guys in the UAE really do know a lot about their cars, from young to old ('cos they've ALL got flash cars). They buy cars to be different. Why buy a German Rolls Royce? Why not just buy a Maybach? Because it is all about the image!
FF
Rolls Royce's are mostly German now. Actual or derived parts from BMW 7 series form a lot of the car. Those parts are, i believe, mostly made in Germany and shipped here for assembly where the RR guys put the finishing touches on it.FF
arfursleep said:
Fat Fairy said:
I don't know about the Chinese side, but the guys in the UAE really do know a lot about their cars, from young to old ('cos they've ALL got flash cars). They buy cars to be different. Why buy a German Rolls Royce? Why not just buy a Maybach? Because it is all about the image!
FF
Rolls Royce's are mostly German now. Actual or derived parts from BMW 7 series form a lot of the car. Those parts are, i believe, mostly made in Germany and shipped here for assembly where the RR guys put the finishing touches on it.FF
These people don't give a f
k about what engine or gearbox is in it, or what car the infotainment was originally designed for.They're buying the automotive Savile Row suit...
andymadmak said:
Thatcher actually gave the world the K series engine....a fab little unit until BMW got their hands on it...
Some people raved about in a Lotus whilst others slated it in Rovers.(true question as I would like to know) What did BMW do to the K-series engine to bugger it up? The reason I ask is that the the MG sports car with that engine has aged well and can't believe how it ended up being sent out with cheap head gaskets to ruin it's reputation. The cynic in me thinks it could of been done on purpose for an ulterior motive,
...of the K-series...
Then various installations where it was a bit underpowered, and add in a daft location for the thermostat, leading to it being slow to open when thraped from cold.
Then stir gently with some production-cheapening, including a move to plastic locating dowels.
Also, AIUI various of the aftermarket tuning parts available were much sloppier quality than the originals, so as soon as you start to warm it up a bit, it becomes unreliable.
Raygun said:
Some people raved about in a Lotus whilst others slated it in Rovers.
(true question as I would like to know) What did BMW do to the K-series engine to bugger it up?
A small-capacity cooling system, leading to it being intolerant of coolant loss.(true question as I would like to know) What did BMW do to the K-series engine to bugger it up?
Then various installations where it was a bit underpowered, and add in a daft location for the thermostat, leading to it being slow to open when thraped from cold.
Then stir gently with some production-cheapening, including a move to plastic locating dowels.
Also, AIUI various of the aftermarket tuning parts available were much sloppier quality than the originals, so as soon as you start to warm it up a bit, it becomes unreliable.
TooMany2cvs said:
...of the K-series...
yes, but it was designed that way to assist in rapid warm up (oh, the irony!) The K was actually designed as a lean burn technology engine. The later imposition of catalysts didn't help with its efficiency. Raygun said:
Some people raved about in a Lotus whilst others slated it in Rovers.
(true question as I would like to know) What did BMW do to the K-series engine to bugger it up?
A small-capacity cooling system, leading to it being intolerant of coolant loss. (true question as I would like to know) What did BMW do to the K-series engine to bugger it up?
TooMany2cvs said:
Then various installations where it was a bit underpowered,
The K had a great power output compared to similar sized engines of the time. The trouble was that Rover had to make use of it in all sorts of applications that it was not originally intended for. The who concept was modular and early design stuff I saw had everything from a 900 triple to a 3.5litre V8! TooMany2cvs said:
and add in a daft location for the thermostat, leading to it being slow to open when thraped from cold.
yes, in the MGF this was a problem that I think they could and should have fixed earlier! TooMany2cvs said:
Then stir gently with some production-cheapening, including a move to plastic locating dowels.
the dowels were one that BMW brought in, as was a downgrading of the water pump design. In fact there are many who believe that a fairly high percentage of HGF failures on K series units was actually due to the water pump failing first and then the engine overeating due to the coolant loss (your first point about intolerance covers this too) Legend has it that at one point the water pumps had a little evaporator plate on them so that leaked coolant would boil off before it contaminated the cam belt! (don't know if this is true)
TooMany2cvs said:
Also, AIUI various of the aftermarket tuning parts available were much sloppier quality than the originals, so as soon as you start to warm it up a bit, it becomes unreliable.
Yes. A properly built K with the right quality parts is a fine engine
glazbagun said:
Murph7355 said:
kurt535 said:
Of course it can be shifted!! Some Arab/Chinese billionaire won't give a jot where his RR is made.
I think you might be surprised.
TooMany2cvs said:
Yeh, terrible.
http://ec.europa.eu/trade/policy/countries-and-reg...
Now, what are the biggies missing from that list?
US? Yeh, TTIP falling apart was all the EU's fault, definitely... Nothing to do with the change of man at the top of the US for a protectionist halfwit.
India? That's been underway for a decade, but India put it on hold when Modi came in to power.
China? Perhaps when China sorts its intellectual property issues out...
Australia, Brazil, China all spring to mind for rare Earth elements for all the batteries for all the electric cars we are soon going to needhttp://ec.europa.eu/trade/policy/countries-and-reg...
Now, what are the biggies missing from that list?
US? Yeh, TTIP falling apart was all the EU's fault, definitely... Nothing to do with the change of man at the top of the US for a protectionist halfwit.
India? That's been underway for a decade, but India put it on hold when Modi came in to power.
China? Perhaps when China sorts its intellectual property issues out...
An interesting topic.
What other 'global' brands/ cars need to be built in their original country of origin?
Would people in the UK be bothered if their VW Beetle was built in Brazil or Germany? What about Maybach, Corvettes, Bugatti, Fiat 500, Lamborghini? If you wanted a Corvette would it bother you if it were built in Hungary instead of the US - if you had your heart set on one, would the country of manufacture matter? Personally I don't think I would be bothered......
Or is this a phenomena only for British cars??
Mike
What other 'global' brands/ cars need to be built in their original country of origin?
Would people in the UK be bothered if their VW Beetle was built in Brazil or Germany? What about Maybach, Corvettes, Bugatti, Fiat 500, Lamborghini? If you wanted a Corvette would it bother you if it were built in Hungary instead of the US - if you had your heart set on one, would the country of manufacture matter? Personally I don't think I would be bothered......
Or is this a phenomena only for British cars??
Mike
SantaBarbara said:
Is the Straight eight RR vehicle engine still manufactured to this day?
The only straight eight RR have EVER put in a car was the Phantom IV, in the early 50s. All 18 of 'em.Do you mean the L-series v8? Yes, but not in a Rolls since the last Corniches a decade and a half ago. BMW started putting their own engines in from the first Seraphs. Bentley still use it, though.
mike9009 said:
An interesting topic.
What other 'global' brands/ cars need to be built in their original country of origin?
Would people in the UK be bothered if their VW Beetle was built in Brazil or Germany? What about Maybach, Corvettes, Bugatti, Fiat 500, Lamborghini? If you wanted a Corvette would it bother you if it were built in Hungary instead of the US - if you had your heart set on one, would the country of manufacture matter? Personally I don't think I would be bothered......
Or is this a phenomena only for British cars??
Mike
VW Beetles were built for many years in Mexico. They had a love affair with it. I think they were still building them as recently as into the early 2000s. They first started building them in the 60s from knock down kits, then built a factory assembly plant to build them.What other 'global' brands/ cars need to be built in their original country of origin?
Would people in the UK be bothered if their VW Beetle was built in Brazil or Germany? What about Maybach, Corvettes, Bugatti, Fiat 500, Lamborghini? If you wanted a Corvette would it bother you if it were built in Hungary instead of the US - if you had your heart set on one, would the country of manufacture matter? Personally I don't think I would be bothered......
Or is this a phenomena only for British cars??
Mike
kurt535 said:
glazbagun said:
Murph7355 said:
kurt535 said:
Of course it can be shifted!! Some Arab/Chinese billionaire won't give a jot where his RR is made.
I think you might be surprised.
don'tbesilly said:
kurt535 said:
glazbagun said:
Murph7355 said:
kurt535 said:
Of course it can be shifted!! Some Arab/Chinese billionaire won't give a jot where his RR is made.
I think you might be surprised.mike9009 said:
An interesting topic.
What other 'global' brands/ cars need to be built in their original country of origin?
Would people in the UK be bothered if their VW Beetle was built in Brazil or Germany? What about Maybach, Corvettes, Bugatti, Fiat 500, Lamborghini? If you wanted a Corvette would it bother you if it were built in Hungary instead of the US - if you had your heart set on one, would the country of manufacture matter? Personally I don't think I would be bothered......
Or is this a phenomena only for British cars??
Mike
Personally, I think there are certain cars that embody the character of the associated nation.What other 'global' brands/ cars need to be built in their original country of origin?
Would people in the UK be bothered if their VW Beetle was built in Brazil or Germany? What about Maybach, Corvettes, Bugatti, Fiat 500, Lamborghini? If you wanted a Corvette would it bother you if it were built in Hungary instead of the US - if you had your heart set on one, would the country of manufacture matter? Personally I don't think I would be bothered......
Or is this a phenomena only for British cars??
Mike
Rolls Royce, Lotus and Morgan are brands I think are absolutely linked to the UK, and it would harm the appeal if they weren't built here.
Same with Ferrari/ Italy.
I think a Corvette or Mustang built anywhere other than the US would be very odd, or a NSX not crafted in Japan.
The German brands are perhaps less so, possibly due to the generally higher volume - but almost certainly as the massive levels of platform sharing also dilute the link with the country of origin. How many countries are MQB based vehicles made in?
kurt535 said:
don'tbesilly said:
kurt535 said:
glazbagun said:
Murph7355 said:
kurt535 said:
Of course it can be shifted!! Some Arab/Chinese billionaire won't give a jot where his RR is made.
I think you might be surprised.
Off topic I know but there is a good documentary on Youtube about the development of the K-series engine. They spent a lot of time and money on that engine and for it's time (in fact, even by modern standards in some cases) it had a very impressive power output per litre. Unfortunately it is only remembered for it's failures. In some ways it reminds me of the "APT" train - the prototype was an amazing piece of engineering, but the production model was ruined by cost cutting.
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