Is this the last tory government

[otolith]

easytiger123 said:

If you don't have an innate sense of what and what is not fair then there's little hope, and to assume it doesn't affect politics is I'd suggest to miss one of the fundamental tenets of any free society.

It's not fair that many companies pay minimal tax relative to their profits, it's not fair that there are lord knows how many people on zero hours contracts, who can't get a mortgage, who can be let go without compensation, and who are not entitled to a single day of paid holiday or sick pay. It's not fair that more and more wealth is being concentrated in fewer and fewer hands. Whether you like it or not people, rich and poor, are recognising it isn't fair and unless a political party can address some of these issue they are going to get slaughtered by the electorate.

You think you know what "fair" is, but that's based on your own beliefs and values. Different people have different beliefs and values which will feed into their understanding of what is and is not "fair". That's the fundamental difference in which political philosophies people subscribe to.

[Terminator X]

Imho Labour currently are more or less impossible to vote for, Tories will carry on as long as the Labour policies remain un-changed. UKIP will rise again though imho if #brexit goes tits up as seems to be the case.

TX.

[Terminator X]

easytiger123 said:

If you don't have an innate sense of what and what is not fair then there's little hope, and to assume it doesn't affect politics is I'd suggest to miss one of the fundamental tenets of any free society.

It's not fair that many companies pay minimal tax relative to their profits, it's not fair that there are lord knows how many people on zero hours contracts, who can't get a mortgage, who can be let go without compensation, and who are not entitled to a single day of paid holiday or sick pay. It's not fair that more and more wealth is being concentrated in fewer and fewer hands. Whether you like it or not people, rich and poor, are recognising it isn't fair and unless a political party can address some of these issue they are going to get slaughtered by the electorate.

That absolutely is not true, Massive Corporations perhaps but 99% of businesses are small / medium sized and will pay the going rate for definite.

TX.

[Fittster]

Terminator X said:

Imho Labour currently are more or less impossible to vote for, Tories will carry on as long as the Labour policies remain un-changed. UKIP will rise again though imho if #brexit goes tits up as seems to be the case.

TX.

What policies make Labour unelectable in your opinion?

1. Nationalization of the railways?
2. Nationalization of utilities
3. Creation of an investment bank?
4. Something else?

[Markybubbb]

Fittster said:

Terminator X said:

Imho Labour currently are more or less impossible to vote for, Tories will carry on as long as the Labour policies remain un-changed. UKIP will rise again though imho if #brexit goes tits up as seems to be the case.

TX.

What policies make Labour unelectable in your opinion?

1. Nationalization of the railways?
2. Nationalization of utilities
3. Creation of an investment bank?
4. Something else?

Their tit of a leader to start with...

[Fittster]

Markybubbb said:

Fittster said:

Terminator X said:

Imho Labour currently are more or less impossible to vote for, Tories will carry on as long as the Labour policies remain un-changed. UKIP will rise again though imho if #brexit goes tits up as seems to be the case.

TX.

What policies make Labour unelectable in your opinion?

1. Nationalization of the railways?
2. Nationalization of utilities
3. Creation of an investment bank?
4. Something else?

Their tit of a leader to start with...

So its just tribalism then.

[Halb]

from what I've been reading, a lot of labour polices jive with centrist voters. It certainly jived with the 11 million odd who voted last year, has anything changed?

[SpeckledJim]

Fittster said:

Terminator X said:

Imho Labour currently are more or less impossible to vote for, Tories will carry on as long as the Labour policies remain un-changed. UKIP will rise again though imho if #brexit goes tits up as seems to be the case.

TX.

What policies make Labour unelectable in your opinion?

1. Nationalization of the railways?
2. Nationalization of utilities
3. Creation of an investment bank?
4. Something else?

John McDonnell, Diane Abbott, and the rest of their front bench make labour unelectable. The idea of Angela Rayner actually in charge of Education is so ludicrous it's hard to put into words.

[greygoose]

Wills2 said:

plus at least Sterling is still worth something at the moment.

He had a pretty poor World Cup though, just ran quickly with no end product .

[Fittster]

SpeckledJim said:

Fittster said:

Terminator X said:

Imho Labour currently are more or less impossible to vote for, Tories will carry on as long as the Labour policies remain un-changed. UKIP will rise again though imho if #brexit goes tits up as seems to be the case.

TX.

What policies make Labour unelectable in your opinion?

1. Nationalization of the railways?
2. Nationalization of utilities
3. Creation of an investment bank?
4. Something else?

John McDonnell, Diane Abbott, and the rest of their front bench make labour unelectable. The idea of Angela Rayner actually in charge of Education is so ludicrous it's hard to put into words.

Attacking people without explaining which of their policies you disagree with comes across to me that your a purely expressing a tribal preference .

[uk66fastback]

crofty1984 said:

hairy bush tofu gobblers.

[sidicks]

easytiger123 said:

It's not fair that many companies pay minimal tax relative to their profits, it's not fair that there are lord knows how many people on zero hours contracts, who can't get a mortgage, who can be let go without compensation, and who are not entitled to a single day of paid holiday or sick pay. It's not fair that more and more wealth is being concentrated in fewer and fewer hands.

Examples please...

easytiger123 said:

Whether you like it or not people, rich and poor, are recognising it isn't fair and unless a political party can address some of these issue they are going to get slaughtered by the electorate.

Define ‘fair’.

[SpeckledJim]

Fittster said:

SpeckledJim said:

Fittster said:

Terminator X said:

Imho Labour currently are more or less impossible to vote for, Tories will carry on as long as the Labour policies remain un-changed. UKIP will rise again though imho if #brexit goes tits up as seems to be the case.

TX.

What policies make Labour unelectable in your opinion?

1. Nationalization of the railways?
2. Nationalization of utilities
3. Creation of an investment bank?
4. Something else?

John McDonnell, Diane Abbott, and the rest of their front bench make labour unelectable. The idea of Angela Rayner actually in charge of Education is so ludicrous it's hard to put into words.

Attacking people without explaining which of their policies you disagree with comes across to me that your a purely expressing a tribal preference .

Can't be arsed writing essays but here's an easy one:

Labour's stated policy is that travellers should enjoy increased rights and protections.

My position is that travellers should have dramatically reduced rights and protections.

Our positions on this literally could not be more opposed, and I am totally baffled by the thought processes, be they either moral or political, which have lead them to champion this policy.

[Rovinghawk]

easytiger123 said:

If you don't have an innate sense of what and what is not fair then there's little hope

Nobody is born with a sense of 'fair'- don't pretend otherwise. It's a learned value.

easytiger123 said:

to assume it doesn't affect politics is I'd suggest to miss one of the fundamental tenets of any free society.

I didn't say it doesn't affect politics- I said that it has no place there as it's a different concept for different people rather than an absolute value.

easytiger123 said:

It's not fair that many companies pay minimal tax relative to their profits, it's not fair that there are lord knows how many people on zero hours contracts, who can't get a mortgage, who can be let go without compensation, and who are not entitled to a single day of paid holiday or sick pay.

I'm one of those ZHC people you mention. As I bothered to get a set of skills & have an inclination to work hard the system is fine. I accept it might not suit the lazy ones amongst us.

easytiger123 said:

It's not fair that more and more wealth is being concentrated in fewer and fewer hands.

Aw Diddums!

easytiger123 said:

Whether you like it or not people, rich and poor, are recognising it isn't fair and unless a political party can address some of these issue they are going to get slaughtered by the electorate.

Poor people think that they should have other people's money because they have more? So taking it from them for redistribution is 'fair'? Our opinions vary here.

[Rovinghawk]

Fittster said:

Attacking people without explaining which of their policies you disagree with comes across to me that your a purely expressing a tribal preference .

J McD- breaking the capitalist economy, armed insurrection, harassing/assaulting conservative politicians.
DA- racism & economic illiteracy.
Angela Rayner- shadow education minister who didn't actually get an education & probably got in the way of others'.
JC- "it's not borrowing it's issuing IOUs (bonds). It's OK because we own the IOUs (bonds)."
J McD- as per JC above

Is that sufficient to not be tribalism?

[jonnyb]

If you want more money get out and earn it. Taking it from people used to be called theft.

[crankedup]

jonnyb said:

If you want more money get out and earn it. Taking it from people used to be called theft.

Agreed, problem is for the vast majority of workers, they are the middle market. Earning more means paying more tax and losing more benefits, in effect work more hours for less money.
Removing the incentive to work harder and longer used to be the mantra of a Labour Government.

[Fittster]

Rovinghawk said:

Fittster said:

Attacking people without explaining which of their policies you disagree with comes across to me that your a purely expressing a tribal preference .

J McD- breaking the capitalist economy, armed insurrection, harassing/assaulting conservative politicians.
DA- racism & economic illiteracy.
Angela Rayner- shadow education minister who didn't actually get an education & probably got in the way of others'.
JC- "it's not borrowing it's issuing IOUs (bonds). It's OK because we own the IOUs (bonds)."
J McD- as per JC above

Is that sufficient to not be tribalism?

If Angela Rayner is unsuitable to talk about education policy, would you also exclude people who were privately educated from being involved in the policy impacting the state sector? If her lack of education means she is to stupid to have input into policy, should uneducated people able to impact economic policy (i.e. voting in a referendum)?

Ending austerity hardly puts you out of line with mainstream economics. If fact many think austerity is economically is economically illiterate (no government borrowing isn't like a household credit card).

harassing conservative politicians is rather the point when in opposition.

[Fittster]

jonnyb said:

If you want more money get out and earn it. Taking it from people used to be called theft.

So no problem with taxes on capital gains or inheritance then.

[otolith]

It's interesting how many people appear to have read about MMT and decided that all other economic theories are rendered invalid.