How do we think EU negotiations will go? (Vol 15)
Discussion
RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:
Biggy Stardust said:
Is that within France's gift? I thought the EU was doing the trade deal thing, not France.
Do member states have power of veto?And even if we agree to Macron's demand on access to UK waters it's far from clear what sort of FTA the EU are actually prepared to offer in return - or do you have information to the contrary?
press release, UK has to move. EU still playing the control freak game.
https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-rel...
II. EU-UK relations
3. The European Council recalls that the transition period will end on 31 December 2020 and notes with concern that progress on the key issues of interest to the Union is still not sufficient for an agreement to be reached.
4. The European Council reaffirms the Union’s determination to have as close as possible a partnership with the United Kingdom on the basis of the negotiating directives of 25 February 2020, while respecting the previously agreed European Council guidelines, as well as statements and declarations, notably those of 25 November 2018, in particular as regards the level playing field, governance and fisheries.
5. Against this background, the European Council invites the Unionʼs chief negotiator to continue negotiations in the coming weeks, and calls on the UK to make the necessary moves to make an agreement possible.
6. As regards the Internal Market Bill tabled by the UK government, the European Council recalls that the Withdrawal Agreement and its Protocols must be fully and timely implemented.
7. The European Council calls upon Member States, Union institutions and all stakeholders to step up their work on preparedness and readiness at all levels and for all outcomes, including that of no agreement, and invites the Commission, in particular, to give timely consideration to unilateral and time-limited contingency measures that are in the EUʼs interest.
8. The European Council will remain seized of the matter.
https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-rel...
II. EU-UK relations
3. The European Council recalls that the transition period will end on 31 December 2020 and notes with concern that progress on the key issues of interest to the Union is still not sufficient for an agreement to be reached.
4. The European Council reaffirms the Union’s determination to have as close as possible a partnership with the United Kingdom on the basis of the negotiating directives of 25 February 2020, while respecting the previously agreed European Council guidelines, as well as statements and declarations, notably those of 25 November 2018, in particular as regards the level playing field, governance and fisheries.
5. Against this background, the European Council invites the Unionʼs chief negotiator to continue negotiations in the coming weeks, and calls on the UK to make the necessary moves to make an agreement possible.
6. As regards the Internal Market Bill tabled by the UK government, the European Council recalls that the Withdrawal Agreement and its Protocols must be fully and timely implemented.
7. The European Council calls upon Member States, Union institutions and all stakeholders to step up their work on preparedness and readiness at all levels and for all outcomes, including that of no agreement, and invites the Commission, in particular, to give timely consideration to unilateral and time-limited contingency measures that are in the EUʼs interest.
8. The European Council will remain seized of the matter.
jsf said:
press release, UK has to move. EU still playing the control freak game.
https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-rel...
II. EU-UK relations
3. The European Council recalls that the transition period will end on 31 December 2020 and notes with concern that progress on the key issues of interest to the Union is still not sufficient for an agreement to be reached.
4. The European Council reaffirms the Union’s determination to have as close as possible a partnership with the United Kingdom on the basis of the negotiating directives of 25 February 2020, while respecting the previously agreed European Council guidelines, as well as statements and declarations, notably those of 25 November 2018, in particular as regards the level playing field, governance and fisheries.
5. Against this background, the European Council invites the Union?s chief negotiator to continue negotiations in the coming weeks, and calls on the UK to make the necessary moves to make an agreement possible.
6. As regards the Internal Market Bill tabled by the UK government, the European Council recalls that the Withdrawal Agreement and its Protocols must be fully and timely implemented.
7. The European Council calls upon Member States, Union institutions and all stakeholders to step up their work on preparedness and readiness at all levels and for all outcomes, including that of no agreement, and invites the Commission, in particular, to give timely consideration to unilateral and time-limited contingency measures that are in the EU?s interest.
8. The European Council will remain seized of the matter.
If Frost and Bojo extend now we know No deal is off the table.https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-rel...
II. EU-UK relations
3. The European Council recalls that the transition period will end on 31 December 2020 and notes with concern that progress on the key issues of interest to the Union is still not sufficient for an agreement to be reached.
4. The European Council reaffirms the Union’s determination to have as close as possible a partnership with the United Kingdom on the basis of the negotiating directives of 25 February 2020, while respecting the previously agreed European Council guidelines, as well as statements and declarations, notably those of 25 November 2018, in particular as regards the level playing field, governance and fisheries.
5. Against this background, the European Council invites the Union?s chief negotiator to continue negotiations in the coming weeks, and calls on the UK to make the necessary moves to make an agreement possible.
6. As regards the Internal Market Bill tabled by the UK government, the European Council recalls that the Withdrawal Agreement and its Protocols must be fully and timely implemented.
7. The European Council calls upon Member States, Union institutions and all stakeholders to step up their work on preparedness and readiness at all levels and for all outcomes, including that of no agreement, and invites the Commission, in particular, to give timely consideration to unilateral and time-limited contingency measures that are in the EU?s interest.
8. The European Council will remain seized of the matter.
JNW1 said:
RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:
Biggy Stardust said:
Is that within France's gift? I thought the EU was doing the trade deal thing, not France.
Do member states have power of veto?And even if we agree to Macron's demand on access to UK waters it's far from clear what sort of FTA the EU are actually prepared to offer in return - or do you have information to the contrary?
That was my original point- it's not within France's gift. It's for the EU as a whole to decide.
jsf said:
press release, UK has to move. EU still playing the control freak game.
https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-rel...
II. EU-UK relations
3. The European Council recalls that the transition period will end on 31 December 2020 and notes with concern that progress on the key issues of interest to the Union is still not sufficient for an agreement to be reached.
4. The European Council reaffirms the Union’s determination to have as close as possible a partnership with the United Kingdom on the basis of the negotiating directives of 25 February 2020, while respecting the previously agreed European Council guidelines, as well as statements and declarations, notably those of 25 November 2018, in particular as regards the level playing field, governance and fisheries.
5. Against this background, the European Council invites the Union?s chief negotiator to continue negotiations in the coming weeks, and calls on the UK to make the necessary moves to make an agreement possible.
6. As regards the Internal Market Bill tabled by the UK government, the European Council recalls that the Withdrawal Agreement and its Protocols must be fully and timely implemented.
7. The European Council calls upon Member States, Union institutions and all stakeholders to step up their work on preparedness and readiness at all levels and for all outcomes, including that of no agreement, and invites the Commission, in particular, to give timely consideration to unilateral and time-limited contingency measures that are in the EU?s interest.
8. The European Council will remain seized of the matter.
So UK has to bend to their will rather than them making any compromise? Sod them.https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-rel...
II. EU-UK relations
3. The European Council recalls that the transition period will end on 31 December 2020 and notes with concern that progress on the key issues of interest to the Union is still not sufficient for an agreement to be reached.
4. The European Council reaffirms the Union’s determination to have as close as possible a partnership with the United Kingdom on the basis of the negotiating directives of 25 February 2020, while respecting the previously agreed European Council guidelines, as well as statements and declarations, notably those of 25 November 2018, in particular as regards the level playing field, governance and fisheries.
5. Against this background, the European Council invites the Union?s chief negotiator to continue negotiations in the coming weeks, and calls on the UK to make the necessary moves to make an agreement possible.
6. As regards the Internal Market Bill tabled by the UK government, the European Council recalls that the Withdrawal Agreement and its Protocols must be fully and timely implemented.
7. The European Council calls upon Member States, Union institutions and all stakeholders to step up their work on preparedness and readiness at all levels and for all outcomes, including that of no agreement, and invites the Commission, in particular, to give timely consideration to unilateral and time-limited contingency measures that are in the EU?s interest.
8. The European Council will remain seized of the matter.
Whohe123 said:
jsf said:
press release, UK has to move. EU still playing the control freak game.
https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-rel...
II. EU-UK relations
3. The European Council recalls that the transition period will end on 31 December 2020 and notes with concern that progress on the key issues of interest to the Union is still not sufficient for an agreement to be reached.
4. The European Council reaffirms the Union’s determination to have as close as possible a partnership with the United Kingdom on the basis of the negotiating directives of 25 February 2020, while respecting the previously agreed European Council guidelines, as well as statements and declarations, notably those of 25 November 2018, in particular as regards the level playing field, governance and fisheries.
5. Against this background, the European Council invites the Union?s chief negotiator to continue negotiations in the coming weeks, and calls on the UK to make the necessary moves to make an agreement possible.
6. As regards the Internal Market Bill tabled by the UK government, the European Council recalls that the Withdrawal Agreement and its Protocols must be fully and timely implemented.
7. The European Council calls upon Member States, Union institutions and all stakeholders to step up their work on preparedness and readiness at all levels and for all outcomes, including that of no agreement, and invites the Commission, in particular, to give timely consideration to unilateral and time-limited contingency measures that are in the EU?s interest.
8. The European Council will remain seized of the matter.
If Frost and Bojo extend now we know No deal is off the table.https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-rel...
II. EU-UK relations
3. The European Council recalls that the transition period will end on 31 December 2020 and notes with concern that progress on the key issues of interest to the Union is still not sufficient for an agreement to be reached.
4. The European Council reaffirms the Union’s determination to have as close as possible a partnership with the United Kingdom on the basis of the negotiating directives of 25 February 2020, while respecting the previously agreed European Council guidelines, as well as statements and declarations, notably those of 25 November 2018, in particular as regards the level playing field, governance and fisheries.
5. Against this background, the European Council invites the Union?s chief negotiator to continue negotiations in the coming weeks, and calls on the UK to make the necessary moves to make an agreement possible.
6. As regards the Internal Market Bill tabled by the UK government, the European Council recalls that the Withdrawal Agreement and its Protocols must be fully and timely implemented.
7. The European Council calls upon Member States, Union institutions and all stakeholders to step up their work on preparedness and readiness at all levels and for all outcomes, including that of no agreement, and invites the Commission, in particular, to give timely consideration to unilateral and time-limited contingency measures that are in the EU?s interest.
8. The European Council will remain seized of the matter.
Biggy Stardust said:
jsf said:
press release, UK has to move. EU still playing the control freak game.
https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-rel...
5. Against this background, the European Council invites the Union?s chief negotiator to continue negotiations in the coming weeks, and calls on the UK to make the necessary moves to make an agreement possible.
So the conservative party have to make moves to ensure they never get elected again in the UK?https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-rel...
5. Against this background, the European Council invites the Union?s chief negotiator to continue negotiations in the coming weeks, and calls on the UK to make the necessary moves to make an agreement possible.
Remember the results, for the 2019 European elections. how did that go for the Conservatives?
Frost response. No deal coming tomorrow.
https://twitter.com/DavidGHFrost/status/1316785715...
"Disappointed by the #EUCO conclusions on UK/EU negotiations. Surprised EU is no longer committed to working "intensively" to reach a future partnership as agreed with @vonderleyen on 3 October.
Also surprised by suggestion that to get an agreement all future moves must come from UK. It's an unusual approach to conducting a negotiation.
PM @BorisJohnson will set out UK reactions and approach tomorrow in the light of his statement of 7 September."
https://twitter.com/DavidGHFrost/status/1316785715...
"Disappointed by the #EUCO conclusions on UK/EU negotiations. Surprised EU is no longer committed to working "intensively" to reach a future partnership as agreed with @vonderleyen on 3 October.
Also surprised by suggestion that to get an agreement all future moves must come from UK. It's an unusual approach to conducting a negotiation.
PM @BorisJohnson will set out UK reactions and approach tomorrow in the light of his statement of 7 September."
Biggy Stardust said:
JNW1 said:
RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:
Biggy Stardust said:
Is that within France's gift? I thought the EU was doing the trade deal thing, not France.
Do member states have power of veto?And even if we agree to Macron's demand on access to UK waters it's far from clear what sort of FTA the EU are actually prepared to offer in return - or do you have information to the contrary?
That was my original point- it's not within France's gift. It's for the EU as a whole to decide.
David Frost
@DavidGHFrost
1/3 Disappointed by the #EUCO conclusions on UK/EU negotiations. Surprised EU is no longer committed to working "intensively" to reach a future partnership as agreed with @vonderleyen on 3 October.
2/3 Also surprised by suggestion that to get an agreement all future moves must come from UK. It's an unusual approach to conducting a negotiation.
3/3 PM
@BorisJohnson
will set out UK reactions and approach tomorrow in the light of his statement of 7 September.
https://twitter.com/DavidGHFrost/status/1316785717...
@DavidGHFrost
1/3 Disappointed by the #EUCO conclusions on UK/EU negotiations. Surprised EU is no longer committed to working "intensively" to reach a future partnership as agreed with @vonderleyen on 3 October.
2/3 Also surprised by suggestion that to get an agreement all future moves must come from UK. It's an unusual approach to conducting a negotiation.
3/3 PM
@BorisJohnson
will set out UK reactions and approach tomorrow in the light of his statement of 7 September.
https://twitter.com/DavidGHFrost/status/1316785717...
jsf said:
Frost response. No deal coming tomorrow.
https://twitter.com/DavidGHFrost/status/1316785715...
"Disappointed by the #EUCO conclusions on UK/EU negotiations. Surprised EU is no longer committed to working "intensively" to reach a future partnership as agreed with @vonderleyen on 3 October.
Also surprised by suggestion that to get an agreement all future moves must come from UK. It's an unusual approach to conducting a negotiation.
PM @BorisJohnson will set out UK reactions and approach tomorrow in the light of his statement of 7 September."
Tomorrow's update from Johnson will certainly be interesting; I can't see him accepting the EU's stance of "it's up to the UK to move if we're going to get a deal" so you have to think announcing we're walking away is now a distinct possibility. To be honest if what we've got is indeed the EU's last word on the matter (as opposed to just posturing) I think he has little choice if he's to retain any credibility....https://twitter.com/DavidGHFrost/status/1316785715...
"Disappointed by the #EUCO conclusions on UK/EU negotiations. Surprised EU is no longer committed to working "intensively" to reach a future partnership as agreed with @vonderleyen on 3 October.
Also surprised by suggestion that to get an agreement all future moves must come from UK. It's an unusual approach to conducting a negotiation.
PM @BorisJohnson will set out UK reactions and approach tomorrow in the light of his statement of 7 September."
There's a few pro-EU Brussels journalists putting forward the view that the conclusions issued are a serious miscalculation. It's not just what's in them, it's that everyone saw the initial draft so can see what the Memberstates took out of them and added in instead.
As Frost references, they removed the need to intensify the talks and added an air of provocation instead.
And Barnier is spinning a different line as he tries to avoid the rug being pulled out form under him.
As Frost references, they removed the need to intensify the talks and added an air of provocation instead.
And Barnier is spinning a different line as he tries to avoid the rug being pulled out form under him.
Edited by paulrockliffe on Thursday 15th October 19:06
JNW1 said:
Tomorrow's update from Johnson will certainly be interesting; I can't see him accepting the EU's stance of "it's up to the UK to move if we're going to get a deal" so you have to think announcing we're walking away is now a distinct possibility. To be honest if what we've got is indeed the EU's last word on the matter (as opposed to just posturing) I think he has little choice if he's to retain any credibility....
A quote for the EU:"Who would fight should first count the cost"
Sun Tsu
JNW1 said:
jsf said:
Frost response. No deal coming tomorrow.
https://twitter.com/DavidGHFrost/status/1316785715...
"Disappointed by the #EUCO conclusions on UK/EU negotiations. Surprised EU is no longer committed to working "intensively" to reach a future partnership as agreed with @vonderleyen on 3 October.
Also surprised by suggestion that to get an agreement all future moves must come from UK. It's an unusual approach to conducting a negotiation.
PM @BorisJohnson will set out UK reactions and approach tomorrow in the light of his statement of 7 September."
Tomorrow's update from Johnson will certainly be interesting; I can't see him accepting the EU's stance of "it's up to the UK to move if we're going to get a deal" so you have to think announcing we're walking away is now a distinct possibility. To be honest if what we've got is indeed the EU's last word on the matter (as opposed to just posturing) I think he has little choice if he's to retain any credibility....https://twitter.com/DavidGHFrost/status/1316785715...
"Disappointed by the #EUCO conclusions on UK/EU negotiations. Surprised EU is no longer committed to working "intensively" to reach a future partnership as agreed with @vonderleyen on 3 October.
Also surprised by suggestion that to get an agreement all future moves must come from UK. It's an unusual approach to conducting a negotiation.
PM @BorisJohnson will set out UK reactions and approach tomorrow in the light of his statement of 7 September."
JNW1 said:
jsf said:
Frost response. No deal coming tomorrow.
https://twitter.com/DavidGHFrost/status/1316785715...
"Disappointed by the #EUCO conclusions on UK/EU negotiations. Surprised EU is no longer committed to working "intensively" to reach a future partnership as agreed with @vonderleyen on 3 October.
Also surprised by suggestion that to get an agreement all future moves must come from UK. It's an unusual approach to conducting a negotiation.
PM @BorisJohnson will set out UK reactions and approach tomorrow in the light of his statement of 7 September."
Tomorrow's update from Johnson will certainly be interesting; I can't see him accepting the EU's stance of "it's up to the UK to move if we're going to get a deal" so you have to think announcing we're walking away is now a distinct possibility. To be honest if what we've got is indeed the EU's last word on the matter (as opposed to just posturing) I think he has little choice if he's to retain any credibility....https://twitter.com/DavidGHFrost/status/1316785715...
"Disappointed by the #EUCO conclusions on UK/EU negotiations. Surprised EU is no longer committed to working "intensively" to reach a future partnership as agreed with @vonderleyen on 3 October.
Also surprised by suggestion that to get an agreement all future moves must come from UK. It's an unusual approach to conducting a negotiation.
PM @BorisJohnson will set out UK reactions and approach tomorrow in the light of his statement of 7 September."
Any weakness displayed right now will further dent what is an already fragile position with his and the Govt's supporters/voters, it's time for Johnson to stick to the position he outlined in his communication of the 7th Sept.
https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/prime-minis...
It's clear reading many of the comments coming from within the EU and its members that further negotiations are pointless, it's time to call it a day
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