How About Another EU Referendum?

[Abdul Abulbul Amir]

Magnum 475 said:

Abdul Abulbul Amir said:

Agreed, and I call out the Remainer led revision of the last few years of parliamentary history when they complain about the current status of the UK-EU relationship when their actions after the referendum results directly led to it.

No. Please don't blame those who didn't want Brexit for the consequences of Brexit. You voted for it you, and you got what you voted for. It's not the fault of those who didn't want it, it's not the fault of the EU.

It is the fault of those who campaigned based on lies (Improved fishing industry, Turkey joining the EU and mass immigration etc). It is, to a lesser degree, the fault of those who voted for it.

You voted leave. You got what you voted for.

I can put blame on who is responsible. If you think that the actions of the anti-brexit MPs that tried to reverse and then undermine the goverment's negotiation strategy had no impact then you are wrong.

I will admit that I thought, naively with hindsight, that after the result came in the country and parliament would respect the result of a democratic vote and work in the best interests of the country in implementing that result.. This didn't happen...instead we had groups of MPs travelling to Brussels having secret meetings. LDs wanted to override it and the Labour party gave no input, no policy and blocked everything regardless.

As for the EU, there was no good faith negotiation from them but that was to be expected. Especially with their use of the GFA.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xw0RyfeWAK8

Edited by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Monday 27th June 09:36

Edited by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Monday 27th June 09:38

[Mrr T]

crankedup5 said:

Digging over old ground will not change the reality of where we are now. Time to double dig and get on with what’s in front of us.

I believe you are retired so I assume you really mean time for those who still work to start doing the heavy lifting while I enjoy my triple locked pension.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

Magnum 475 said:

No. Please don't blame those who didn't want Brexit for the consequences of Brexit. You voted for it you, and you got what you voted for. It's not the fault of those who didn't want it, it's not the fault of the EU.

It is the fault of those who campaigned based on lies (Improved fishing industry, Turkey joining the EU and mass immigration etc). It is, to a lesser degree, the fault of those who voted for it.

You voted leave. You got what you voted for.

Don't waste your time mate. It'll never ever be the fault of Brexiteers. These arrogant pricks could never face up to that. It'll always be someone else's fault....remainers, remoaners, Covid, Putin, the EU. Anyone but the morons who voted for it and the liars they were conned by.

It's easier to fool someone than to get them to admit they've been fooled.

[Abdul Abulbul Amir]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

These arrogant pricks

Ha, that's amusing.

[Murph7355]

roger.mellie said:

Dr Jekyll said:

If they'd voted to accept the treaty would there have been another vote to give them a chance to reject it?

No. Stupid question but I know where you're coming from given the thread topic.

But Ireland has a written constitution requiring certain thresholds for ammendment, the UK doesn't, so some comparisons aren't very relevant. It's easily arguable the UK doesn't have the political system to cope with referendum results.

It's really not a stupid question though.

AIUI Irish constitution changes need only a simple majority and there's no minimum turnout required...?

So why didn't the first vote stick? (Badly worded/explained could be an excuse for anything political. So why isn't everything subject to a "clarifying" vote...?

If it hadn't met some predetermined threshold, fair enough. But I don't believe that was the case, was it?

(And that's before we get into Lisbon being pretty similar to the proposed EU constitution, which had already been widely kyboshed).

These sort of things are why I don't like the political construct.

As for the UK....it's badly suited to idiot politicians, not referenda.

[Ivan stewart]

Abdul Abulbul Amir said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

These arrogant pricks

Ha, that's amusing.

I think we Brexiteer pricks are out numbered by arrogant remain pricks , their ranks are bursting with them !!

[Abdul Abulbul Amir]

Ivan stewart said:

Abdul Abulbul Amir said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

These arrogant pricks

Ha, that's amusing.

I think we Brexiteer pricks are out numbered by arrogant remain pricks , their ranks are bursting with them !!

It's an entry requirement for them.

[roger.mellie]

Murph7355 said:

roger.mellie said:

Dr Jekyll said:

If they'd voted to accept the treaty would there have been another vote to give them a chance to reject it?

No. Stupid question but I know where you're coming from given the thread topic.

But Ireland has a written constitution requiring certain thresholds for ammendment, the UK doesn't, so some comparisons aren't very relevant. It's easily arguable the UK doesn't have the political system to cope with referendum results.

It's really not a stupid question though.

AIUI Irish constitution changes need only a simple majority and there's no minimum turnout required...?

So why didn't the first vote stick? (Badly worded/explained could be an excuse for anything political. So why isn't everything subject to a "clarifying" vote...?

If it hadn't met some predetermined threshold, fair enough. But I don't believe that was the case, was it?

(And that's before we get into Lisbon being pretty similar to the proposed EU constitution, which had already been widely kyboshed).

These sort of things are why I don't like the political construct.

As for the UK....it's badly suited to idiot politicians, not referenda.

Ok, a leading question rather than stupid. But I'm sure you know I meant that anyway as you're leading in your question. <cough>

Ireland isn't the UK, some comparisons need to know their reference point, and if it's based on bullst like the vote twice thing it's still based on bullst. You may be surprised to hear that I had no issue with the first vote and had some legitimate questions on the second one but I wasn't part of the electorate. IT wasn't a clarifying vote. There are some legitimate criticisms of how Ireland handled it but big bad EU isn't one of them.

These sort of things may be why you don't like the political construct but as you know one of my main differences of opinion with yours is the assumed position that the solution to bad government is less government.

As a company employing both sides of the border we stay out of politics for the most part, the only one we've actively been public on was support for the gay marriage referendum as that didn't involve northern and southern employees deciding whether my enemies friend is my friend, it had clear cut support no matter who you were. I can't envisage a constitutional policy amendment coming up again with such a level of unanimous support.

[crankedup5]

Mrr T said:

crankedup5 said:

Digging over old ground will not change the reality of where we are now. Time to double dig and get on with what’s in front of us.

I believe you are retired so I assume you really mean time for those who still work to start doing the heavy lifting while I enjoy my triple locked pension.

Spittle flecked nasty personal remark from Mr T. Completely uncalled for.

[Murph7355]

roger.mellie said:

....
IT wasn't a clarifying vote. There are some legitimate criticisms of how Ireland handled it but big bad EU isn't one of them.

These sort of things may be why you don't like the political construct but as you know one of my main differences of opinion with yours is the assumed position that the solution to bad government is less government.
...

Ok, it was a vote 5mins later after some tough negotiations on the key points the Irish didn't like

(BTW, I like Ireland's system on constitutional change and wish we had similar - it's like I highlighted before. The rules of engagement are still a bit frilly though, as the Lisbon situation indicates. A situation like that is only "bullst" when it falls your preferred way up...).

What is the answer to "bad government" that the EU solves?

The answer to bad government/politicians certainly isn't more of them. Unless you've been out in the sun on the Guinness too long!

[sugerbear]

crankedup5 said:

Mrr T said:

crankedup5 said:

Digging over old ground will not change the reality of where we are now. Time to double dig and get on with what’s in front of us.

I believe you are retired so I assume you really mean time for those who still work to start doing the heavy lifting while I enjoy my triple locked pension.

Spittle flecked nasty personal remark from Mr T. Completely uncalled for.

Truth hurts I guess. Deal with what he said.

[crankedup5]

sugerbear said:

crankedup5 said:

Mrr T said:

crankedup5 said:

Digging over old ground will not change the reality of where we are now. Time to double dig and get on with what’s in front of us.

I believe you are retired so I assume you really mean time for those who still work to start doing the heavy lifting while I enjoy my triple locked pension.

Spittle flecked nasty personal remark from Mr T. Completely uncalled for.

Truth hurts I guess. Deal with what he said.

Sadly for you and Mr T, you both succumb to your inner thoughts of believing you know me and know of my circumstances. You don’t of course other than I retired from my full time working.
Marks you both out as ageist.

[sugerbear]

crankedup5 said:

sugerbear said:

crankedup5 said:

Mrr T said:

crankedup5 said:

Digging over old ground will not change the reality of where we are now. Time to double dig and get on with what’s in front of us.

I believe you are retired so I assume you really mean time for those who still work to start doing the heavy lifting while I enjoy my triple locked pension.

Spittle flecked nasty personal remark from Mr T. Completely uncalled for.

Truth hurts I guess. Deal with what he said.

Sadly for you and Mr T, you both succumb to your inner thoughts of believing you know me and know of my circumstances. You don’t of course other than I retired from my full time working.
Marks you both out as ageist.

Ageist.. hahaha. In your head maybe.

So Mr Burden on the state triple lock pension, why shouldn't the majority have a vote now we have seen the results ? Don't you believe in a democratic vote? Afraid that the thing you voted for and won (which by all accounts has turned into an economic disaster) might be overturned? Shouldn't parliament work the people?

What is it you hate about democracy and the ability to change?

If you had ANY confidence that it was going well you would be jumping up and down asking for a referendum to prove and embed the very thing you champion so much.

[Oilchange]

That's a great argument, one that you perhaps should have made prior to Brexit being realised...

[Murph7355]

Oilchange said:

That's a great argument, one that you perhaps should have made prior to Brexit being realised...

Indeed.

Another of those wonderful arguments brought forwards with no sense of introspection or irony

[crankedup5]

sugerbear said:

crankedup5 said:

sugerbear said:

crankedup5 said:

Mrr T said:

crankedup5 said:

Digging over old ground will not change the reality of where we are now. Time to double dig and get on with what’s in front of us.

I believe you are retired so I assume you really mean time for those who still work to start doing the heavy lifting while I enjoy my triple locked pension.

Spittle flecked nasty personal remark from Mr T. Completely uncalled for.

Truth hurts I guess. Deal with what he said.

Sadly for you and Mr T, you both succumb to your inner thoughts of believing you know me and know of my circumstances. You don’t of course other than I retired from my full time working.
Marks you both out as ageist.

Ageist.. hahaha. In your head maybe.

So Mr Burden on the state triple lock pension, why shouldn't the majority have a vote now we have seen the results ? Don't you believe in a democratic vote? Afraid that the thing you voted for and won (which by all accounts has turned into an economic disaster) might be overturned? Shouldn't parliament work the people?

What is it you hate about democracy and the ability to change?

If you had ANY confidence that it was going well you would be jumping up and down asking for a referendum to prove and embed the very thing you champion so much.

What an odd and dislocated response to use as a diversionary tactic to the original slur of ageism against me. Perhaps think about what it is your posting before doing so, just a polite suggestion.

[oyster]

Countdown said:

toon10 said:

I voted remain but no, there shouldn't be another referendum. Our reputation in mainland Europe isn't great and I don't think trying to re-join would be well received or do either side any favours. Our country is already divided since the first one so another referendum would just add more division and take up more time and effort from the government. That time and effort would be better served elsewhere with all of the issues the UK has right now.

I agree with this.

I voted Remain and I believe that Leaving will have (and is having) a negative effect in several different ways but we made our own bed and now we need to lie in it.

This.

It's done and dusted.

Maybe some future government might campaign on a manifesto of rejoining. But that's for the electorate to decide.

[anonymous-user]

Sometimes I think remainers just like torturing themselves.

We’ve left. The EU is rapidly changing into something far worse than it was when we were members. I think you are away with the fairies if you think we would want to join what it is going to (has to), morph into.

[Lotobear]

Abdul Abulbul Amir said:

Magnum 475 said:

Abdul Abulbul Amir said:

Agreed, and I call out the Remainer led revision of the last few years of parliamentary history when they complain about the current status of the UK-EU relationship when their actions after the referendum results directly led to it.

No. Please don't blame those who didn't want Brexit for the consequences of Brexit. You voted for it you, and you got what you voted for. It's not the fault of those who didn't want it, it's not the fault of the EU.

It is the fault of those who campaigned based on lies (Improved fishing industry, Turkey joining the EU and mass immigration etc). It is, to a lesser degree, the fault of those who voted for it.

You voted leave. You got what you voted for.

I can put blame on who is responsible. If you think that the actions of the anti-brexit MPs that tried to reverse and then undermine the goverment's negotiation strategy had no impact then you are wrong.

I will admit that I thought, naively with hindsight, that after the result came in the country and parliament would respect the result of a democratic vote and work in the best interests of the country in implementing that result.. This didn't happen...instead we had groups of MPs travelling to Brussels having secret meetings. LDs wanted to override it and the Labour party gave no input, no policy and blocked everything regardless.

As for the EU, there was no good faith negotiation from them but that was to be expected. Especially with their use of the GFA.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xw0RyfeWAK8

Edited by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Monday 27th June 09:36

Edited by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Monday 27th June 09:38

Never seen that, the utter s!

I was a very marginal leaver and would have voted remain had Cameron won some meaningful concessions but the Brexit process has shone a bright light on the workings of the EU (see the vaccine debacle too) and now I'm bloody glad to be out of it.

[Mrr T]

crankedup5 said:

sugerbear said:

crankedup5 said:

sugerbear said:

crankedup5 said:

Mrr T said:

crankedup5 said:

Digging over old ground will not change the reality of where we are now. Time to double dig and get on with what’s in front of us.

I believe you are retired so I assume you really mean time for those who still work to start doing the heavy lifting while I enjoy my triple locked pension.

Spittle flecked nasty personal remark from Mr T. Completely uncalled for.

Truth hurts I guess. Deal with what he said.

Sadly for you and Mr T, you both succumb to your inner thoughts of believing you know me and know of my circumstances. You don’t of course other than I retired from my full time working.
Marks you both out as ageist.

Ageist.. hahaha. In your head maybe.

So Mr Burden on the state triple lock pension, why shouldn't the majority have a vote now we have seen the results ? Don't you believe in a democratic vote? Afraid that the thing you voted for and won (which by all accounts has turned into an economic disaster) might be overturned? Shouldn't parliament work the people?

What is it you hate about democracy and the ability to change?

If you had ANY confidence that it was going well you would be jumping up and down asking for a referendum to prove and embed the very thing you champion so much.

What an odd and dislocated response to use as a diversionary tactic to the original slur of ageism against me. Perhaps think about what it is your posting before doing so, just a polite suggestion.

I think you where accusing me of being ageist. Considering my age I suggest it is unlikely I am ageist.

I would describe my comment as harsh but fair.

Irc you said your children voted remain. It did seem to me, on that basis, your comment about double digging was rather ill considered.