Russia Invades Ukraine. Volume 4

[Waitforme]

With an MBT, what is the approximate timing from firing a shell , locking onto ( updating the ballistic computer with new coordinates ) the next target and firing again assuming the targets are both identifiable prior to firing the first round ?
I’d assume this can all be done when travelling at speed ?

[Evanivitch]

Waitforme said:

With an MBT, what is the approximate timing from firing a shell , locking onto ( updating the ballistic computer with new coordinates ) the next target and firing again assuming the targets are both identifiable prior to firing the first round ?
I’d assume this can all be done when travelling at speed ?

I don't think anyone is going to share such performance data on a public forum.

The ability to reload the weapon and traverse to the next target are your main limiting factors. There's a few steps involved to follow procedure too.

Vehicles like AJAX make this very easy as the gunner can engage on one sight whilst the commander is viewing the next target, aligning the gunner to the commander's vision is just a button press, determine range, pull trigger.

On "analogue" platforms it requires a team that can clearly communicate the location of the target between commander and gunner.

[Waitforme]

Thanks.
Up until a few days ago I’d just assumed MBTs were “just” armoured guns, I’d no idea of the complexity and precision they had.
I must do a bit of digging / YouTubing.

[Penny Whistle]

GliderRider said:

The big difference between Russia and most countries upon which the West has imposed sanctions previously, is that Russia has already had the R&D, manufacturing and test facilities, the sources of raw material to produce parts, plus the technical institutes,scientists and engineers to use them (although a significant proportion of the latter may well have retired, fled the country or gone in the meat grinder). They have also had 30+ years of hands-on experience with up-to-date Western technology.
It is almost certain that the Russian are developing pattern parts (e.g. carbon/carbon brakes) to extend the life of their existing Western airliner fleet beyond the life of the Western consumables they contain.
The unintended result of the sanctions is that Russia may be much better placed in the future to compete in some markets than when they were fitting Western parts to Russian-built aircraft for convenience.

Would such aircraft be able to fly into western countries ? Would their service records show that they had unapproved parts fitted, or would Airbus/Boeing records show that they had not been serviced properly ?

[trickywoo]

Waitforme said:

With an MBT, what is the approximate timing from firing a shell , locking onto ( updating the ballistic computer with new coordinates ) the next target and firing again assuming the targets are both identifiable prior to firing the first round ?
I’d assume this can all be done when travelling at speed ?

This will give you some idea https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6hh-CoPKqU

[ecsrobin]

Waitforme said:

Thanks.
Up until a few days ago I’d just assumed MBTs were “just” armoured guns, I’d no idea of the complexity and precision they had.
I must do a bit of digging / YouTubing.

[GliderRider]

Penny Whistle said:

GliderRider said:

The big difference between Russia and most countries upon which the West has imposed sanctions previously, is that Russia has already had the R&D, manufacturing and test facilities, the sources of raw material to produce parts, plus the technical institutes,scientists and engineers to use them (although a significant proportion of the latter may well have retired, fled the country or gone in the meat grinder). They have also had 30+ years of hands-on experience with up-to-date Western technology.
It is almost certain that the Russian are developing pattern parts (e.g. carbon/carbon brakes) to extend the life of their existing Western airliner fleet beyond the life of the Western consumables they contain.
The unintended result of the sanctions is that Russia may be much better placed in the future to compete in some markets than when they were fitting Western parts to Russian-built aircraft for convenience.

Would such aircraft be able to fly into western countries ? Would their service records show that they had unapproved parts fitted, or would Airbus/Boeing records show that they had not been serviced properly ?

I have no idea how this is policed on visiting aircraft, however this is a sample aircraft airworthiness review document showing the sort of continuing airworthiness questions for which information is requested.

[aeropilot]

Penny Whistle said:

GliderRider said:

The big difference between Russia and most countries upon which the West has imposed sanctions previously, is that Russia has already had the R&D, manufacturing and test facilities, the sources of raw material to produce parts, plus the technical institutes,scientists and engineers to use them (although a significant proportion of the latter may well have retired, fled the country or gone in the meat grinder). They have also had 30+ years of hands-on experience with up-to-date Western technology.
It is almost certain that the Russian are developing pattern parts (e.g. carbon/carbon brakes) to extend the life of their existing Western airliner fleet beyond the life of the Western consumables they contain.
The unintended result of the sanctions is that Russia may be much better placed in the future to compete in some markets than when they were fitting Western parts to Russian-built aircraft for convenience.

Would such aircraft be able to fly into western countries ?

My understanding from what I've read elsewhere, is that they won't ever be allowed to fly in EU or US airspace again, and of those countries that have joined in the sanctions on Russia, but many other countries around the world have not stopped Russian airlines flying in their airspace, so these aircraft are flying currently outside of Russian borders.

[Evanivitch]

Waitforme said:

Thanks.
Up until a few days ago I’d just assumed MBTs were “just” armoured guns, I’d no idea of the complexity and precision they had.
I must do a bit of digging / YouTubing.

Matsimus has a decent enough video on tank tactics. He's former armoured infantry I think in UK, then joined Canadian army has an artillery gunner.

Not possible to find anything on the "tech", but the interior shots of the T14 Armata actually give a reasonable representation of what the inside of a properly modern AFV should look like.

https://youtu.be/l_AVDxM3LQM?si=qa37DyQf3V2mxHI4

https://youtu.be/pQbAmIf33qg?si=FOYmbmehg1ELHr40

[Digga]

aeropilot said:

Penny Whistle said:

GliderRider said:

The big difference between Russia and most countries upon which the West has imposed sanctions previously, is that Russia has already had the R&D, manufacturing and test facilities, the sources of raw material to produce parts, plus the technical institutes,scientists and engineers to use them (although a significant proportion of the latter may well have retired, fled the country or gone in the meat grinder). They have also had 30+ years of hands-on experience with up-to-date Western technology.
It is almost certain that the Russian are developing pattern parts (e.g. carbon/carbon brakes) to extend the life of their existing Western airliner fleet beyond the life of the Western consumables they contain.
The unintended result of the sanctions is that Russia may be much better placed in the future to compete in some markets than when they were fitting Western parts to Russian-built aircraft for convenience.

Would such aircraft be able to fly into western countries ?

My understanding from what I've read elsewhere, is that they won't ever be allowed to fly in EU or US airspace again, and of those countries that have joined in the sanctions on Russia, but many other countries around the world have not stopped Russian airlines flying in their airspace, so these aircraft are flying currently outside of Russian borders.

For a start, no one will insure them, but I'd assume the airframe ID's will also be blacklisted from entering airspace. Ever.

[speedking31]

Waitforme said:

With an MBT, what is the approximate timing from firing a shell , locking onto ( updating the ballistic computer with new coordinates ) the next target and firing again assuming the targets are both identifiable prior to firing the first round ?
I’d assume this can all be done when travelling at speed?

... or have a play of World of Tanks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xy52Zdzhuc8
No idea how accurate it is though.

[GliderRider]

aeropilot said:

Penny Whistle said:

GliderRider said:

The big difference between Russia and most countries upon which the West has imposed sanctions previously, is that Russia has already had the R&D, manufacturing and test facilities, the sources of raw material to produce parts, plus the technical institutes,scientists and engineers to use them (although a significant proportion of the latter may well have retired, fled the country or gone in the meat grinder). They have also had 30+ years of hands-on experience with up-to-date Western technology.
It is almost certain that the Russian are developing pattern parts (e.g. carbon/carbon brakes) to extend the life of their existing Western airliner fleet beyond the life of the Western consumables they contain.
The unintended result of the sanctions is that Russia may be much better placed in the future to compete in some markets than when they were fitting Western parts to Russian-built aircraft for convenience.

Would such aircraft be able to fly into western countries ?

My understanding from what I've read elsewhere, is that they won't ever be allowed to fly in EU or US airspace again, and of those countries that have joined in the sanctions on Russia, but many other countries around the world have not stopped Russian airlines flying in their airspace, so these aircraft are flying currently outside of Russian borders.

The difficulty will be to establish if flying with time-expired or unapproved parts has had any detrimental effect on the rest of the aircraft. Simply replacing the unauthorised parts may not be sufficient. There must be an existing way around this, otherwise every aircraft which has flown with a component subsequently found to be unapproved or counterfeit would have to be scrapped immediately, and I'm pretty sure that is not the case. This Powerpoint document defines what approved, unapproved and counterfeit parts are and the differences.

[BikeBikeBIke]

Digga said:

For a start, no one will insure them, but I'd assume the airframe ID's will also be blacklisted from entering airspace. Ever.

Yeah, pretty sure they can't go in Chinese airspace. Very few places want an airliner falling on them.

Russia is wrecked in all kinds of ways.

Problem is a wrecked Russia doesn't help Ukraine *that* much, Putin's happy to close down most of the civilian economy and devote it to arms and on that basis he can keep fighting.

Edited by BikeBikeBIke on Monday 20th November 14:21

[eldar]

BikeBikeBIke said:

Yeah, pretty sure they can't go in Chinese airspace. Very few places want an airliner falling on them.

Russia is wrecked in all kinds of ways.

Problem is a wrecked Russia doesn't help Ukraine *that* much, Putin's happy to close down most of the civilian economy and devote it to arms and on that basis he can keep fighting.

Edited by BikeBikeBIke on Monday 20th November 14:21

Where does the money come from for perpetual army payment and weapon manufacture?

[ecsrobin]

eldar said:

Where does the money come from for perpetual army payment and weapon manufacture?

India

[BikeBikeBIke]

eldar said:

BikeBikeBIke said:

Yeah, pretty sure they can't go in Chinese airspace. Very few places want an airliner falling on them.

Russia is wrecked in all kinds of ways.

Problem is a wrecked Russia doesn't help Ukraine *that* much, Putin's happy to close down most of the civilian economy and devote it to arms and on that basis he can keep fighting.

Edited by BikeBikeBIke on Monday 20th November 14:21

Where does the money come from for perpetual army payment and weapon manufacture?

They just print it and live with the inflation.

[NoddyonNitrous]

Waitforme said:

Thanks.
Up until a few days ago I’d just assumed MBTs were “just” armoured guns, I’d no idea of the complexity and precision they had.
I must do a bit of digging / YouTubing.

username appropriate!

[BikeBikeBIke]

Quite a good vid on the Russian Economy:

https://youtu.be/ecdxs8Al424?si=BXHiImLoYh1ibca4

[Waitforme]

NoddyonNitrous said:

Waitforme said:

Thanks.
Up until a few days ago I’d just assumed MBTs were “just” armoured guns, I’d no idea of the complexity and precision they had.
I must do a bit of digging / YouTubing.

username appropriate!

I’ll have you know I’m now an expert on having spent the afternoon watching the videos and links provided above. Incredible fighting machines.

[Talksteer]

speedking31 said:

Waitforme said:

With an MBT, what is the approximate timing from firing a shell , locking onto ( updating the ballistic computer with new coordinates ) the next target and firing again assuming the targets are both identifiable prior to firing the first round ?
I’d assume this can all be done when travelling at speed?

... or have a play of World of Tanks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xy52Zdzhuc8
No idea how accurate it is though.

Well it's public face refers to it as "an unrealistic videogame".

Steel Beasts if where you want to go for realism if not graphics. It has actually been procured by a number of militaries as a basic cheap training tool.