Owen Jones

[biggbn]

jakesmith said:

biggbn said:

Ah, so it did happen then? I seem to remember many on this thread claiming it didn't? I dont like the fella much, no time for anyone that preaches violence. But im sorry, getting filled in for your views is a bit pathetic in this day and age and the law, being impartial, covers everyone regardless of their individual persuasions.

Do you appreciate the irony of someone who advocates violence upon those with differing views becoming the victim of violence for his views?

As you find the concept abhorrent do you have any less sympathy for him?

I think people were entitled to question events as per any other incident up to the point that there is supporting evidence or testimony, especially given the man’s proven record of weaponising events for his agenda, his behaviour has built up quite a shadow on his own impartiality.

I don’t condone the violence towards him btw.

I appreciate the irony, but it doesn't make it right, irony bring what it is. We are in danger of being drawn into another interminable debate about freedom of speech/consequence etc so as its been done to death I shall probably step away. My point about the disbelief of the attack was that it came from, pretty exclusively, people who dont like the fella. Some even suggesting he deserved it. Each to their own, but i find that concept ridiculous. I stated I have no time for those who preach violence i think the 'because, ironic' defence would hold as much water as the 'because Owen Jones' one. I'm glad we agree the violence was unacceptable, and agree that he can be a bit of a prat.

[biggbn]

REALIST123 said:

biggbn said:

bhstewie said:

REALIST123 said:

I don’t like Jones either and didn’t lose any sleep over him being attacked. I can understand him upsetting many with his extreme views and ideology and feel that it was always coming to him.

Neither do I care about the extremist who attached him though it’ll be interesting to compare his sentence with the ones that will be meted out to the the 3 murderers of PC Harper.

He's gobby but I really can't think I've ever heard him say anything that made me think he deserved to be assaulted by a far-right with a problem against people with left and pro-LGBT views.

“very significant aggravating factors” according to the judge which might explain the lengthy sentence.

Personally I want the people who murdered PC Harper to go to jail for a very long time and like you I suspect they won't but I'm struggling to see what it has to do with the sentence handed out to this chap.

The judiciary work according to guidelines there isn't some sort of plot to give people who assault "lefties" longer sentences.

Because lefties. Because mouthy Marxist. Because I don't like him. Delete as appropriate.

We’ll done. You’ve just demonstrated how little you know of him or what he has said and done over the years.

He’s far more than just a mouthy Marxist. He’s little better than the guy who assaulted him, if at all.

You saw the post when I pointed out i have little time for him because of his advocacy of violence? I am well aware of Jones' politics and writings over the years, but thanks for jumping to a conclusion so readily. The guy ain't my cup of cha but I'm glad the impartiality of the law afforded him the same defence as anyone else.

[Leicester Loyal]

Worth pointing out that we can't be sure that he was attacked for his political views, although it is more than likely was.

[rscott]

Leicester Loyal said:

Worth pointing out that we can't be sure that he was attacked for his political views, although it is more than likely was.

The judge seemed to be fairly sure.

[bitchstewie]

rscott said:

The judge seemed to be fairly sure.

Yes but you have to keep in mind the Judge only heard all of the available evidence before handing down the sentence.

I mean what would they know?

[biggbn]

Leicester Loyal said:

Worth pointing out that we can't be sure that he was attacked for his political views, although it is more than likely was.

Or sexuality?

[Gameface]

bhstewie said:

rscott said:

The judge seemed to be fairly sure.

Yes but you have to keep in mind the Judge only heard all of the available evidence before handing down the sentence.

I mean what would they know?

Playing devils advocate, can you appreciate that it might've in Jones' interest to frame the narrative as a right wing political one, seeing as he's a left wing political commentator?

[Leicester Loyal]

I mean there's absolutely no way of knowing, even if you are found guilty, but yeah. The original altercation took place in the pub.

[Leicester Loyal]

Recorder Anne Studd QC said she would sentence Healy on the basis that the attack had been due to Mr Jones's "widely published left-wing and LGBTQ beliefs".

Seems to me the far-right stuff in his house was the 'evidence' that this was a far-right attack.

To those mentioning the sentence, it'll be heavier due to his previous for football violence.

[bitchstewie]

Gameface said:

bhstewie said:

rscott said:

The judge seemed to be fairly sure.

Yes but you have to keep in mind the Judge only heard all of the available evidence before handing down the sentence.

I mean what would they know?

Playing devils advocate, can you appreciate that it might've in Jones' interest to frame the narrative as a right wing political one, seeing as he's a left wing political commentator?

Respectfully what's devils advocate got to do with what's occurred?

The case has gone through a court and the judge who has seen and heard all of the available evidence specifically said it was a factor.

“a man holding extreme rightwing opinions who attacked a victim who did no more than hold opinions on which the defendant did not agree”

Those are the judges words not anything to do with how Jones has framed anything.

[Gameface]

Would the average football hooligan know who Jones is?

I'm pretty politically aware but I wouldn't recognise him if he was sitting at a table next to me.

[anonymous-user]

bhstewie said:

rscott said:

The judge seemed to be fairly sure.

Yes but you have to keep in mind the Judge only heard all of the available evidence before handing down the sentence.

I mean what would they know?

Yup, PHers say it didn’t even happen, then he was asking for it when it turned out to be true and it wasn’t political or homophobic in nature. Now that we find out it did happen AND was politically or homophobic motivated after all the attackers shouldn’t get in trouble because of a completely unrelated event regarding a police man.

Obviously they could have avoided all this by believing the original account and not being reactionary, victim blaming , far right apologists in the first place.

[Leicester Loyal]

Just because a judge viewed it that way doesn't mean it's factually correct though.

Meh, whatever the outcome he attacked a bloke who doesn't appear to have done anything wrong and now he'll rightfully serve time inside for it.

Very strange how you can't have an opinion in the middle on PH, the ones that do just seem to be attacked from either side

[Evanivitch]

Gameface said:

Would the average football hooligan know who Jones is?

I'm pretty politically aware but I wouldn't recognise him if he was sitting at a table next to me.

Is the average football hooligan a nazi?

Guardian said:

McGhee, prosecuting, said Healy possessed “a greeting card, which bore Nazi far-right extremist terror symbols, including those associated with the far-right Combat 18 group, one of whose tenets is ‘kill all queers’”.

Also discovered was a Nazi SS flag bearing a “totenkopf” death’s head skull symbol plus “a number of pins of badges”, including a circular pin badge with the “lead the way” and “whatever it takes” motto of Combat 18 and a badge that said “Chelsea FC no asylum seekers”.

[anonymous-user]

Leicester Loyal said:

Just because a judge viewed it that way doesn't mean it's factually correct though.

Meh, whatever the outcome he attacked a bloke who doesn't appear to have done anything wrong and now he'll rightfully serve time inside for it.

Very strange how you can't have an opinion in the middle on PH, the ones that do just seem to be attacked from either side

Your opinion isn’t in the middle at all.

[Gameface]

Evanivitch said:

Gameface said:

Would the average football hooligan know who Jones is?

I'm pretty politically aware but I wouldn't recognise him if he was sitting at a table next to me.

Is the average football hooligan a nazi?

Guardian said:

McGhee, prosecuting, said Healy possessed “a greeting card, which bore Nazi far-right extremist terror symbols, including those associated with the far-right Combat 18 group, one of whose tenets is ‘kill all queers’”.

Also discovered was a Nazi SS flag bearing a “totenkopf” death’s head skull symbol plus “a number of pins of badges”, including a circular pin badge with the “lead the way” and “whatever it takes” motto of Combat 18 and a badge that said “Chelsea FC no asylum seekers”.

The guy is clearly a scumbag, but that doesn't have much bearing on how recognisable Jones is to football hooligans.

I simply don't think he's well known enough to be on the radar of the vast majority of them.

[Evanivitch]

Leicester Loyal said:

I mean there's absolutely no way of knowing, even if you are found guilty, but yeah. The original altercation took place in the pub.

And that altercation took place because...

[Leicester Loyal]

El stovey said:

Your opinion isn’t in the middle at all.

According to you.

The blokes a scumbag, he has Nazi stuff in his house, he's rightfully been put in jail. The only thing I dispute is that he may not have known who Owen Jones actually is, so yeah, definitely a 'far-right' opinion

[Leicester Loyal]

Evanivitch said:

And that altercation took place because...

According to the defendant because OJ bumped into him and knocked his drink over or out of his hand. OJ denies this. It doesn't mention anything about CCTV inside the pub proving who's right, so we don't know what caused the original altercation.

[bitchstewie]

Leicester Loyal said:

Just because a judge viewed it that way doesn't mean it's factually correct though.

Meh, whatever the outcome he attacked a bloke who doesn't appear to have done anything wrong and now he'll rightfully serve time inside for it.

Very strange how you can't have an opinion in the middle on PH, the ones that do just seem to be attacked from either side

Personally for what it's worth I think an "opinion in the middle" would be to say that presumably the only knowledge you have of what happened is what you've read in the media whilst the court heard all the available evidence and reached a conclusion from it.

It's pretty odd to think you've better insight of what happened that night.

Is that an attack?