Lad killed by US wrong side driver, who's done a bunk...
Discussion
Rushjob said:
What he said
Driven/ridden in the UK for 36 years, then moved to France.
After living here for 7 years, last year I pulled out of a junction and for whatever reason I defaulted the driving on the left for about 5 seconds or so before realising what I'd done.
By all means call for heavy sentencing, but at the same time be prepared for you, your significant other or your kids to be prosecuted to the same level you've called for if they are unfortunate enough to make a momentary mistake whilst in their hire car on holiday and end up getting arrested.
You can't have it both ways.
If she'd have not been on her phone, and not ignored the two very clear move left arrows on the road before the brow of the hill, ie pay the slightest bit of attention to her driving, it's be a "silly mistake". But she was too important to have a modicum of sense and did indeed ignore them very obvious warning arrows. Who she thought they related to, i have no idea. Driven/ridden in the UK for 36 years, then moved to France.
After living here for 7 years, last year I pulled out of a junction and for whatever reason I defaulted the driving on the left for about 5 seconds or so before realising what I'd done.
By all means call for heavy sentencing, but at the same time be prepared for you, your significant other or your kids to be prosecuted to the same level you've called for if they are unfortunate enough to make a momentary mistake whilst in their hire car on holiday and end up getting arrested.
You can't have it both ways.
You'd think having had previous for careless driving in USA before this, she'd have learned a lesson, but nope!
Rushjob said:
Lord Marylebone said:
I hear what people are saying, but everyone makes mistakes and your mind can revert you to 'habit' at any time for no apparent reason.
My wife did the same thing, albeit without an accident thankfully. She once turned out of the post office car park in our village and simply drove off down the wrong side of the road, I was in the passenger seat but reading a message on my phone at the time, and it was only when I looked up and shouted that she steered back onto the left, but even then she was confused at why I was shouting 'Left side of the road!'.
She had driven round a tight corner in the process and it was just pure luck there was nothing coming the other way at that moment.
She is from the EU, but had been living and driving in the UK for several years at that point. This was years ago, and she hasn't done it since (to my knowledge) but it just shows it can happen.
What he said My wife did the same thing, albeit without an accident thankfully. She once turned out of the post office car park in our village and simply drove off down the wrong side of the road, I was in the passenger seat but reading a message on my phone at the time, and it was only when I looked up and shouted that she steered back onto the left, but even then she was confused at why I was shouting 'Left side of the road!'.
She had driven round a tight corner in the process and it was just pure luck there was nothing coming the other way at that moment.
She is from the EU, but had been living and driving in the UK for several years at that point. This was years ago, and she hasn't done it since (to my knowledge) but it just shows it can happen.
Driven/ridden in the UK for 36 years, then moved to France.
After living here for 7 years, last year I pulled out of a junction and for whatever reason I defaulted the driving on the left for about 5 seconds or so before realising what I'd done.
By all means call for heavy sentencing, but at the same time be prepared for you, your significant other or your kids to be prosecuted to the same level you've called for if they are unfortunate enough to make a momentary mistake whilst in their hire car on holiday and end up getting arrested.
You can't have it both ways.
SteveStrange said:
Rushjob said:
Lord Marylebone said:
I hear what people are saying, but everyone makes mistakes and your mind can revert you to 'habit' at any time for no apparent reason.
My wife did the same thing, albeit without an accident thankfully. She once turned out of the post office car park in our village and simply drove off down the wrong side of the road, I was in the passenger seat but reading a message on my phone at the time, and it was only when I looked up and shouted that she steered back onto the left, but even then she was confused at why I was shouting 'Left side of the road!'.
She had driven round a tight corner in the process and it was just pure luck there was nothing coming the other way at that moment.
She is from the EU, but had been living and driving in the UK for several years at that point. This was years ago, and she hasn't done it since (to my knowledge) but it just shows it can happen.
What he said My wife did the same thing, albeit without an accident thankfully. She once turned out of the post office car park in our village and simply drove off down the wrong side of the road, I was in the passenger seat but reading a message on my phone at the time, and it was only when I looked up and shouted that she steered back onto the left, but even then she was confused at why I was shouting 'Left side of the road!'.
She had driven round a tight corner in the process and it was just pure luck there was nothing coming the other way at that moment.
She is from the EU, but had been living and driving in the UK for several years at that point. This was years ago, and she hasn't done it since (to my knowledge) but it just shows it can happen.
Driven/ridden in the UK for 36 years, then moved to France.
After living here for 7 years, last year I pulled out of a junction and for whatever reason I defaulted the driving on the left for about 5 seconds or so before realising what I'd done.
By all means call for heavy sentencing, but at the same time be prepared for you, your significant other or your kids to be prosecuted to the same level you've called for if they are unfortunate enough to make a momentary mistake whilst in their hire car on holiday and end up getting arrested.
You can't have it both ways.
Rushjob said:
After living here for 7 years, last year I pulled out of a junction and for whatever reason I defaulted the driving on the left for about 5 seconds or so before realising what I'd done.
Same here, lived in NL for 5 years, a few months back I pulled across a junction on to the wrong side of a dual carriageway section, luckily with nothing coming and realised as soon as my Mrs yelled at me. Scarily easily done with a moments inattention.Hence I can accept that the original accident was a tragic accident, similar to many of the other 1700+ UK road deaths every year. The US however has acted deplorably, whisking her out of the country and then not letting her back. Had she remained in the UK she would have probably received a similar sentence, headed back to the US, and all this would have been forgotten except by the poor lad's family.
RizzoTheRat said:
Rushjob said:
After living here for 7 years, last year I pulled out of a junction and for whatever reason I defaulted the driving on the left for about 5 seconds or so before realising what I'd done.
Same here, lived in NL for 5 years, a few months back I pulled across a junction on to the wrong side of a dual carriageway section, luckily with nothing coming and realised as soon as my Mrs yelled at me. Scarily easily done with a moments inattention.Hence I can accept that the original accident was a tragic accident, similar to many of the other 1700+ UK road deaths every year. The US however has acted deplorably, whisking her out of the country and then not letting her back. Had she remained in the UK she would have probably received a similar sentence, headed back to the US, and all this would have been forgotten except by the poor lad's family.
sebdangerfield said:
SteveStrange said:
Rushjob said:
Lord Marylebone said:
I hear what people are saying, but everyone makes mistakes and your mind can revert you to 'habit' at any time for no apparent reason.
My wife did the same thing, albeit without an accident thankfully. She once turned out of the post office car park in our village and simply drove off down the wrong side of the road, I was in the passenger seat but reading a message on my phone at the time, and it was only when I looked up and shouted that she steered back onto the left, but even then she was confused at why I was shouting 'Left side of the road!'.
She had driven round a tight corner in the process and it was just pure luck there was nothing coming the other way at that moment.
She is from the EU, but had been living and driving in the UK for several years at that point. This was years ago, and she hasn't done it since (to my knowledge) but it just shows it can happen.
What he said My wife did the same thing, albeit without an accident thankfully. She once turned out of the post office car park in our village and simply drove off down the wrong side of the road, I was in the passenger seat but reading a message on my phone at the time, and it was only when I looked up and shouted that she steered back onto the left, but even then she was confused at why I was shouting 'Left side of the road!'.
She had driven round a tight corner in the process and it was just pure luck there was nothing coming the other way at that moment.
She is from the EU, but had been living and driving in the UK for several years at that point. This was years ago, and she hasn't done it since (to my knowledge) but it just shows it can happen.
Driven/ridden in the UK for 36 years, then moved to France.
After living here for 7 years, last year I pulled out of a junction and for whatever reason I defaulted the driving on the left for about 5 seconds or so before realising what I'd done.
By all means call for heavy sentencing, but at the same time be prepared for you, your significant other or your kids to be prosecuted to the same level you've called for if they are unfortunate enough to make a momentary mistake whilst in their hire car on holiday and end up getting arrested.
You can't have it both ways.
SteveStrange said:
sebdangerfield said:
SteveStrange said:
Rushjob said:
Lord Marylebone said:
I hear what people are saying, but everyone makes mistakes and your mind can revert you to 'habit' at any time for no apparent reason.
My wife did the same thing, albeit without an accident thankfully. She once turned out of the post office car park in our village and simply drove off down the wrong side of the road, I was in the passenger seat but reading a message on my phone at the time, and it was only when I looked up and shouted that she steered back onto the left, but even then she was confused at why I was shouting 'Left side of the road!'.
She had driven round a tight corner in the process and it was just pure luck there was nothing coming the other way at that moment.
She is from the EU, but had been living and driving in the UK for several years at that point. This was years ago, and she hasn't done it since (to my knowledge) but it just shows it can happen.
What he said My wife did the same thing, albeit without an accident thankfully. She once turned out of the post office car park in our village and simply drove off down the wrong side of the road, I was in the passenger seat but reading a message on my phone at the time, and it was only when I looked up and shouted that she steered back onto the left, but even then she was confused at why I was shouting 'Left side of the road!'.
She had driven round a tight corner in the process and it was just pure luck there was nothing coming the other way at that moment.
She is from the EU, but had been living and driving in the UK for several years at that point. This was years ago, and she hasn't done it since (to my knowledge) but it just shows it can happen.
Driven/ridden in the UK for 36 years, then moved to France.
After living here for 7 years, last year I pulled out of a junction and for whatever reason I defaulted the driving on the left for about 5 seconds or so before realising what I'd done.
By all means call for heavy sentencing, but at the same time be prepared for you, your significant other or your kids to be prosecuted to the same level you've called for if they are unfortunate enough to make a momentary mistake whilst in their hire car on holiday and end up getting arrested.
You can't have it both ways.
b
hstewie said:
hstewie said: Must admit I have no idea what the expected sentencing range is for this but I assumed it would be more than a few months suspended.
It's all rather moot if she's not her to take her punishment, may as well said we'll hang & quarter her for all the difference it'll make. My sympathies to the family of young Harry. Another shining example of the "special relationship" that only goes one way between the U.S / U.K.sebdangerfield said:
SteveStrange said:
sebdangerfield said:
SteveStrange said:
Rushjob said:
Lord Marylebone said:
I hear what people are saying, but everyone makes mistakes and your mind can revert you to 'habit' at any time for no apparent reason.
My wife did the same thing, albeit without an accident thankfully. She once turned out of the post office car park in our village and simply drove off down the wrong side of the road, I was in the passenger seat but reading a message on my phone at the time, and it was only when I looked up and shouted that she steered back onto the left, but even then she was confused at why I was shouting 'Left side of the road!'.
She had driven round a tight corner in the process and it was just pure luck there was nothing coming the other way at that moment.
She is from the EU, but had been living and driving in the UK for several years at that point. This was years ago, and she hasn't done it since (to my knowledge) but it just shows it can happen.
What he said My wife did the same thing, albeit without an accident thankfully. She once turned out of the post office car park in our village and simply drove off down the wrong side of the road, I was in the passenger seat but reading a message on my phone at the time, and it was only when I looked up and shouted that she steered back onto the left, but even then she was confused at why I was shouting 'Left side of the road!'.
She had driven round a tight corner in the process and it was just pure luck there was nothing coming the other way at that moment.
She is from the EU, but had been living and driving in the UK for several years at that point. This was years ago, and she hasn't done it since (to my knowledge) but it just shows it can happen.
Driven/ridden in the UK for 36 years, then moved to France.
After living here for 7 years, last year I pulled out of a junction and for whatever reason I defaulted the driving on the left for about 5 seconds or so before realising what I'd done.
By all means call for heavy sentencing, but at the same time be prepared for you, your significant other or your kids to be prosecuted to the same level you've called for if they are unfortunate enough to make a momentary mistake whilst in their hire car on holiday and end up getting arrested.
You can't have it both ways.
I would say that a sentence suspended for 12 months in a foreign country is essentially consequence-free. She won't care if she doesn't come here for a year, and then after that, if/when she does, it's all forgotten about.
SteveStrange said:
No, I took it as a reply/response to comments I and others were making about the sentence being too light for the severity of outcome. Maybe we are reading it in diifferent ways, potato/potato.
I would say that a sentence suspended for 12 months in a foreign country is essentially consequence-free. She won't care if she doesn't come here for a year, and then after that, if/when she does, it's all forgotten about.
Ah understood, I thought id missed a point tbh.I would say that a sentence suspended for 12 months in a foreign country is essentially consequence-free. She won't care if she doesn't come here for a year, and then after that, if/when she does, it's all forgotten about.
SteveStrange said:
No, I took it as a reply/response to comments I and others were making about the sentence being too light for the severity of outcome. Maybe we are reading it in diifferent ways, potato/potato.
I would say that a sentence suspended for 12 months in a foreign country is essentially consequence-free. She won't care if she doesn't come here for a year, and then after that, if/when she does, it's all forgotten about.
Instead of not going to prison while living in the UK she's not going to prison while living in the US. The severity of the sentence appears to be in accordance with the guidelines. Not entirely sure what the issue is with the outcome of the trial. I would say that a sentence suspended for 12 months in a foreign country is essentially consequence-free. She won't care if she doesn't come here for a year, and then after that, if/when she does, it's all forgotten about.
At least she's unlikely to kill any other Brits by remaining in the US to serve her sentence and our probation service doesn't have to fund another customer.
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: Must admit I have no idea what the expected sentencing range is for this but I assumed it would be more than a few months suspended.
The sentence that she has received is par for the course for Causing Death By Careless Driving. She was originally on the hook for Causing Death by Dangerous Driving. This carries a prison sentence of up to 14yrs and an unlimited fine.
She hasn't been treated any more or less harshly than anyone else convicted of the former, lesser offence.
Why was the more serious charge dropped? Most likely the CPS were given orders from on high in Whitehall to not pursue it, a nice little sweetheart deal. I thought we didn't do plea-bargaining in this country?
https://www.theaa.com/driving-advice/what-is-dange...
"Causing death by dangerous driving is the most serious dangerous driving offence. It is when someone’s driving causes the death of another person.
Section 2B of the Road Traffic Act 1988 defines it as "A person who causes the death of another person by driving a mechanically propelled vehicle on a road or other public place without due care and attention, or without reasonable consideration for other persons using the road or place is guilty of an offence"
If this were any other average citizen then the CPS would have pursued the 'Dangerous' charge with vigour and would have got a nailed on conviction.
It would of course be a completely phyrric victory in this case as she would never set foot in this country ever again to do a substantial custodial sentence, but the fact she's got a suspended sentence lets her off.
She should remain a wanted criminal, evading justice, wanted to do time in jail, for the rest of her miserable existence.
PurpleTurtle said:
"Causing death by dangerous driving is the most serious dangerous driving offence. It is when someone’s driving causes the death of another person.
Section 2B of the Road Traffic Act 1988 defines it as "A person who causes the death of another person by driving a mechanically propelled vehicle on a road or other public place without due care and attention, or without reasonable consideration for other persons using the road or place is guilty of an offence"
If this were any other average citizen then the CPS would have pursued the 'Dangerous' charge with vigour and would have got a nailed on conviction.
I think you are a bit confused. You have given the definition for causing death by careless driving.Section 2B of the Road Traffic Act 1988 defines it as "A person who causes the death of another person by driving a mechanically propelled vehicle on a road or other public place without due care and attention, or without reasonable consideration for other persons using the road or place is guilty of an offence"
If this were any other average citizen then the CPS would have pursued the 'Dangerous' charge with vigour and would have got a nailed on conviction.
As per RTA 1988.
Causing death by careless, or inconsiderate, driving
"A person who causes the death of another person by driving a mechanically propelled vehicle on a road or other public place without due care and attention, or without reasonable consideration for other persons using the road or place, is guilty of an offence.]
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/secti...
PurpleTurtle said:
The sentence that she has received is par for the course for Causing Death By Careless Driving.
She was originally on the hook for Causing Death by Dangerous Driving. This carries a prison sentence of up to 14yrs and an unlimited fine.
She hasn't been treated any more or less harshly than anyone else convicted of the former, lesser offence.
Why was the more serious charge dropped? Most likely the CPS were given orders from on high in Whitehall to not pursue it, a nice little sweetheart deal. I thought we didn't do plea-bargaining in this country?
https://www.theaa.com/driving-advice/what-is-dange...
"Causing death by dangerous driving is the most serious dangerous driving offence. It is when someone’s driving causes the death of another person.
Section 2B of the Road Traffic Act 1988 defines it as "A person who causes the death of another person by driving a mechanically propelled vehicle on a road or other public place without due care and attention, or without reasonable consideration for other persons using the road or place is guilty of an offence"
If this were any other average citizen then the CPS would have pursued the 'Dangerous' charge with vigour and would have got a nailed on conviction.
It would of course be a completely phyrric victory in this case as she would never set foot in this country ever again to do a substantial custodial sentence, but the fact she's got a suspended sentence lets her off.
She should remain a wanted criminal, evading justice, wanted to do time in jail, for the rest of her miserable existence.
The CPS went for the one they thought most likely to get a conviction for.She was originally on the hook for Causing Death by Dangerous Driving. This carries a prison sentence of up to 14yrs and an unlimited fine.
She hasn't been treated any more or less harshly than anyone else convicted of the former, lesser offence.
Why was the more serious charge dropped? Most likely the CPS were given orders from on high in Whitehall to not pursue it, a nice little sweetheart deal. I thought we didn't do plea-bargaining in this country?
https://www.theaa.com/driving-advice/what-is-dange...
"Causing death by dangerous driving is the most serious dangerous driving offence. It is when someone’s driving causes the death of another person.
Section 2B of the Road Traffic Act 1988 defines it as "A person who causes the death of another person by driving a mechanically propelled vehicle on a road or other public place without due care and attention, or without reasonable consideration for other persons using the road or place is guilty of an offence"
If this were any other average citizen then the CPS would have pursued the 'Dangerous' charge with vigour and would have got a nailed on conviction.
It would of course be a completely phyrric victory in this case as she would never set foot in this country ever again to do a substantial custodial sentence, but the fact she's got a suspended sentence lets her off.
She should remain a wanted criminal, evading justice, wanted to do time in jail, for the rest of her miserable existence.
SteveStrange said:
WilliamWoollard said:
wong said:
Lessons will be learnt from this. But will they?
This type of accident will recur again in future.
If I were the parents. I would paint big eff off 10 foot arrows on the Tarmac every 30 yards or so on the correct side of the road for the first two or three hundred metres from the exit of the base. If the council remove them, I'll be straight back the next night painting them. If I get arrested doing this, I'll explain why I'm doing it and it will get more media atention.
If I didn't have the bottle to do this, I'll petition the council to do it.
Then repeat it outside all US bases in the UK.
Google mapsThis type of accident will recur again in future.
If I were the parents. I would paint big eff off 10 foot arrows on the Tarmac every 30 yards or so on the correct side of the road for the first two or three hundred metres from the exit of the base. If the council remove them, I'll be straight back the next night painting them. If I get arrested doing this, I'll explain why I'm doing it and it will get more media atention.
If I didn't have the bottle to do this, I'll petition the council to do it.
Then repeat it outside all US bases in the UK.
Edited by WilliamWoollard on Friday 9th December 09:42
Compare with sentencing for this today. Tipper truck driver swerved off the road for some reason, over-corrected into the oncoming lane and collided with a car, killing the driver (report says the HGV "tipped over"). 30 weeks prison (7.5 months), suspended for 2 years, pretty much the same.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lincolnshire...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lincolnshire...
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