Can Sir Keir Starmer revive the Labour Party? (Vol. 2)
Discussion
Garvin said:
Wombat3 said:
<snip>
All you can do as an individual is to take steps to try & insulate yourself from any stupidity and keep your head down.
Damn right! Anyone not doing so in the present climate needs to spend less time on PH and more time sorting their affairs out!All you can do as an individual is to take steps to try & insulate yourself from any stupidity and keep your head down.
greygoose said:
Wombat3 said:
Make no mistake some of the private sector is also appalling - have you tried to deal with a bank or an insurance company lately? I'm sitting here listening to my colleague trying to make bookings & reservations with assorted small businesses, its like wading through treacle, or they just do not answer the phone. .
But they are subject to the kind of risk and jeopardy that simply does not exist in the public sector so ultimately they will live or die by that. If they don't respond we will go elsewhere.
That's just nonsense, what risk and jeopardy do insurance companies and banks face? They have all hiked their premiums, shut branches and boosted their profits, the customer has no alternatives to go to, they may as well be monopolies.But they are subject to the kind of risk and jeopardy that simply does not exist in the public sector so ultimately they will live or die by that. If they don't respond we will go elsewhere.
t service.However, they are profitable so in that respect they are efficient and productive. As far as the consumer is concerned, banking is basically free & there is also plenty of competition for insurance. Small business that provide s
t service tend not to survive.There is however plainly little or no jeopardy in the public sector.
The problems are so much more than sodding about in the public sector. It’s just a massive distraction.
This got lost earlier. I was faffing about trying to post it - somebody rang me. Needed to edit it etc. need to be quick on the draw round these ends.
Anyway, here is my rant again…
This country is rotten. The lack of social mobility has knackered our blood supply. Post war, and right up to the end of the Blair gouvernment - we took social mobility seriously. We did so, not because we are nice, but because we need to find the clever people, the people who drive things, who shake them up - they are the energy that powers the machine. We are not drones in this country, all of our great genius has come from innovation.
Part of the post war consensus was acceptance that those people come from all social classes - and they are absolutely essential to productivity. To get them into the system a decent amount of social mobility is needed.
We’ve abandoned this belief. Now it’s who you know, who daddy knows, who you know from school and how good you are at crony corporatism. The private sector is riddled with dead wood. People for whom the actual
performance of their employer is massively secondary to relentless arse-kissing and self advancement. And those people only understand and promote people like them. Self selection of the least efficient and productive. It is acute.
It’s killing us. Sclerosis.
This got lost earlier. I was faffing about trying to post it - somebody rang me. Needed to edit it etc. need to be quick on the draw round these ends.
Anyway, here is my rant again…
This country is rotten. The lack of social mobility has knackered our blood supply. Post war, and right up to the end of the Blair gouvernment - we took social mobility seriously. We did so, not because we are nice, but because we need to find the clever people, the people who drive things, who shake them up - they are the energy that powers the machine. We are not drones in this country, all of our great genius has come from innovation.
Part of the post war consensus was acceptance that those people come from all social classes - and they are absolutely essential to productivity. To get them into the system a decent amount of social mobility is needed.
We’ve abandoned this belief. Now it’s who you know, who daddy knows, who you know from school and how good you are at crony corporatism. The private sector is riddled with dead wood. People for whom the actual
performance of their employer is massively secondary to relentless arse-kissing and self advancement. And those people only understand and promote people like them. Self selection of the least efficient and productive. It is acute.
It’s killing us. Sclerosis.
Rufus Stone said:
Garvin said:
Wombat3 said:
<snip>
All you can do as an individual is to take steps to try & insulate yourself from any stupidity and keep your head down.
Damn right! Anyone not doing so in the present climate needs to spend less time on PH and more time sorting their affairs out!All you can do as an individual is to take steps to try & insulate yourself from any stupidity and keep your head down.
Unless, of course, you don’t mind contributing massively to the welfare state as it is then feel free to just accept whatever will come your way, but please don’t complain after the event.
Now if utopia does come about you can always cancel your private health care subscriptions and move your assets around to suit and crow about how you were right to trust the government.
Rufus Stone said:
Wombat3 said:
I do not have one, I despair at the state of our politics. We will likely get a Labour Government. The best that we can hope for is that they don't do anything too stupid but its doubtful that anything will be in a better state in 5 years - and they are certainly not going to de-regulate or do anything to fix public sector productivity. We will grind on with this "centre ground" nonsense & spend yet more on ever-declining and inefficient public services I suspect.
Doing the same things and expecting a different result is the very definition of idiocy, but effectively that is what we will do.
All you can do as an individual is to take steps to try & insulate yourself from any stupidity and keep your head down.
If you don't want centre ground, what do you want instead?Doing the same things and expecting a different result is the very definition of idiocy, but effectively that is what we will do.
All you can do as an individual is to take steps to try & insulate yourself from any stupidity and keep your head down.
Economically we need to give the people that have the ability to create the room to do it and then come down on the people that take the piss (see Thames Water). Less State, not more but much more effective regulation.
Socially we need to channel money & resources to people that really need it and away from those that choose not to contribute and take a free ride instead.
I'd also like to see a re-assessment and re-alignment of remuneration in the public sector. Some of them are paid too little and some of them much too much. Why is a train driver worth twice what a Nurse is?
We also need to have an honest debate about PS pension schemes too. How many people realise that employer contributions are costing 25-30% for these diamond encrusted schemes? They have long since been deemed unaffordable everywhere else.
Last but not least is a realisation that the root cause of many issues is the price of property and extending from that rents. We need a long term plan to slow the growth in property prices so that over time property becomes more affordable. I don't disagree with things like elevated council tax on second homes but I'd like to see even higher taxes on foreign-owned property and the removal of some of the costs of buying & selling property for UK residents - specifically SDLT which is just a hindrance to mobility.
Edited by Wombat3 on Wednesday 8th May 17:15
Wombat3 said:
I'd like to see something that involves more personal accountability and responsibility together with lower tolerance for anti-social behaviour, theft (in all forms) & general piss-taking.
Economically we need to give the people that have the ability to create the room to do it and then come down on the people that take the piss (see Thames Water). Less State, not more but much more effective regulation.
Socially we need to channel money & resources to people that really need it and away from those that choose not to contribute and take a free ride instead.
I'd also like to see a re-assessment and re-alignment of remuneration in the public sector. Some of them are paid too little and some of them much too much. Why is a train driver worth twice what a Nurse is?
We also need to have an honest debate about PS pension schemes too. How many people realise that employer contributions are costing 25-30% for these diamond encrusted schemes? They have long since been deemed unaffordable everywhere else.
Last but not least is a realisation that the root cause of many issues is the price of property and extending from that rents. We need a long term plan to slow the growth in property prices so that over time property becomes more affordable. I don't disagree with things like elevated council tax on second homes but I'd like to see even higher taxes on foreign-owned property and the removal of some of the costs of buying & selling property for UK residents - specifically SDLT which is just a hindrance to mobility.
Thank you. I don't disagree with any of that. It is pretty centre though if you ask me. Economically we need to give the people that have the ability to create the room to do it and then come down on the people that take the piss (see Thames Water). Less State, not more but much more effective regulation.
Socially we need to channel money & resources to people that really need it and away from those that choose not to contribute and take a free ride instead.
I'd also like to see a re-assessment and re-alignment of remuneration in the public sector. Some of them are paid too little and some of them much too much. Why is a train driver worth twice what a Nurse is?
We also need to have an honest debate about PS pension schemes too. How many people realise that employer contributions are costing 25-30% for these diamond encrusted schemes? They have long since been deemed unaffordable everywhere else.
Last but not least is a realisation that the root cause of many issues is the price of property and extending from that rents. We need a long term plan to slow the growth in property prices so that over time property becomes more affordable. I don't disagree with things like elevated council tax on second homes but I'd like to see even higher taxes on foreign-owned property and the removal of some of the costs of buying & selling property for UK residents - specifically SDLT which is just a hindrance to mobility.
Edited by Wombat3 on Wednesday 8th May 17:15
Rufus Stone said:
Wombat3 said:
I'd like to see something that involves more personal accountability and responsibility together with lower tolerance for anti-social behaviour, theft (in all forms) & general piss-taking.
Economically we need to give the people that have the ability to create the room to do it and then come down on the people that take the piss (see Thames Water). Less State, not more but much more effective regulation.
Socially we need to channel money & resources to people that really need it and away from those that choose not to contribute and take a free ride instead.
I'd also like to see a re-assessment and re-alignment of remuneration in the public sector. Some of them are paid too little and some of them much too much. Why is a train driver worth twice what a Nurse is?
We also need to have an honest debate about PS pension schemes too. How many people realise that employer contributions are costing 25-30% for these diamond encrusted schemes? They have long since been deemed unaffordable everywhere else.
Last but not least is a realisation that the root cause of many issues is the price of property and extending from that rents. We need a long term plan to slow the growth in property prices so that over time property becomes more affordable. I don't disagree with things like elevated council tax on second homes but I'd like to see even higher taxes on foreign-owned property and the removal of some of the costs of buying & selling property for UK residents - specifically SDLT which is just a hindrance to mobility.
Thank you. I don't disagree with any of that. It is pretty centre though if you ask me. Economically we need to give the people that have the ability to create the room to do it and then come down on the people that take the piss (see Thames Water). Less State, not more but much more effective regulation.
Socially we need to channel money & resources to people that really need it and away from those that choose not to contribute and take a free ride instead.
I'd also like to see a re-assessment and re-alignment of remuneration in the public sector. Some of them are paid too little and some of them much too much. Why is a train driver worth twice what a Nurse is?
We also need to have an honest debate about PS pension schemes too. How many people realise that employer contributions are costing 25-30% for these diamond encrusted schemes? They have long since been deemed unaffordable everywhere else.
Last but not least is a realisation that the root cause of many issues is the price of property and extending from that rents. We need a long term plan to slow the growth in property prices so that over time property becomes more affordable. I don't disagree with things like elevated council tax on second homes but I'd like to see even higher taxes on foreign-owned property and the removal of some of the costs of buying & selling property for UK residents - specifically SDLT which is just a hindrance to mobility.
ds" brigade hereabouts can cope with. Front and centre in the theft prevention area would be a thorough examination of the public sector and exactly what we get for our money.
Stand by for a load of hand-wringing I'm sure.
Wombat3 said:
Rufus Stone said:
Wombat3 said:
I'd like to see something that involves more personal accountability and responsibility together with lower tolerance for anti-social behaviour, theft (in all forms) & general piss-taking.
Economically we need to give the people that have the ability to create the room to do it and then come down on the people that take the piss (see Thames Water). Less State, not more but much more effective regulation.
Socially we need to channel money & resources to people that really need it and away from those that choose not to contribute and take a free ride instead.
I'd also like to see a re-assessment and re-alignment of remuneration in the public sector. Some of them are paid too little and some of them much too much. Why is a train driver worth twice what a Nurse is?
We also need to have an honest debate about PS pension schemes too. How many people realise that employer contributions are costing 25-30% for these diamond encrusted schemes? They have long since been deemed unaffordable everywhere else.
Last but not least is a realisation that the root cause of many issues is the price of property and extending from that rents. We need a long term plan to slow the growth in property prices so that over time property becomes more affordable. I don't disagree with things like elevated council tax on second homes but I'd like to see even higher taxes on foreign-owned property and the removal of some of the costs of buying & selling property for UK residents - specifically SDLT which is just a hindrance to mobility.
Thank you. I don't disagree with any of that. It is pretty centre though if you ask me. Economically we need to give the people that have the ability to create the room to do it and then come down on the people that take the piss (see Thames Water). Less State, not more but much more effective regulation.
Socially we need to channel money & resources to people that really need it and away from those that choose not to contribute and take a free ride instead.
I'd also like to see a re-assessment and re-alignment of remuneration in the public sector. Some of them are paid too little and some of them much too much. Why is a train driver worth twice what a Nurse is?
We also need to have an honest debate about PS pension schemes too. How many people realise that employer contributions are costing 25-30% for these diamond encrusted schemes? They have long since been deemed unaffordable everywhere else.
Last but not least is a realisation that the root cause of many issues is the price of property and extending from that rents. We need a long term plan to slow the growth in property prices so that over time property becomes more affordable. I don't disagree with things like elevated council tax on second homes but I'd like to see even higher taxes on foreign-owned property and the removal of some of the costs of buying & selling property for UK residents - specifically SDLT which is just a hindrance to mobility.
ds" brigade hereabouts can cope with. Front and centre in the theft prevention area would be a thorough examination of the public sector and exactly what we get for our money.
Stand by for a load of hand-wringing I'm sure.
ds, just for my own interest if nothing else? Wombat3 said:
I'd like to see something that involves more personal accountability and responsibility together with lower tolerance for anti-social behaviour, theft (in all forms) & general piss-taking.
Economically we need to give the people that have the ability to create the room to do it and then come down on the people that take the piss (see Thames Water). Less State, not more but much more effective regulation.
Socially we need to channel money & resources to people that really need it and away from those that choose not to contribute and take a free ride instead.
I'd also like to see a re-assessment and re-alignment of remuneration in the public sector. Some of them are paid too little and some of them much too much. Why is a train driver worth twice what a Nurse is?
We also need to have an honest debate about PS pension schemes too. How many people realise that employer contributions are costing 25-30% for these diamond encrusted schemes? They have long since been deemed unaffordable everywhere else.
Last but not least is a realisation that the root cause of many issues is the price of property and extending from that rents. We need a long term plan to slow the growth in property prices so that over time property becomes more affordable. I don't disagree with things like elevated council tax on second homes but I'd like to see even higher taxes on foreign-owned property and the removal of some of the costs of buying & selling property for UK residents - specifically SDLT which is just a hindrance to mobility.
Agree with all that.Economically we need to give the people that have the ability to create the room to do it and then come down on the people that take the piss (see Thames Water). Less State, not more but much more effective regulation.
Socially we need to channel money & resources to people that really need it and away from those that choose not to contribute and take a free ride instead.
I'd also like to see a re-assessment and re-alignment of remuneration in the public sector. Some of them are paid too little and some of them much too much. Why is a train driver worth twice what a Nurse is?
We also need to have an honest debate about PS pension schemes too. How many people realise that employer contributions are costing 25-30% for these diamond encrusted schemes? They have long since been deemed unaffordable everywhere else.
Last but not least is a realisation that the root cause of many issues is the price of property and extending from that rents. We need a long term plan to slow the growth in property prices so that over time property becomes more affordable. I don't disagree with things like elevated council tax on second homes but I'd like to see even higher taxes on foreign-owned property and the removal of some of the costs of buying & selling property for UK residents - specifically SDLT which is just a hindrance to mobility.
Edited by Wombat3 on Wednesday 8th May 17:15
I'd also add I'd like to see NHS reform. It is huge, unwieldy, unaffordable and has gone miles past it's original remit.
I know it's electoral suicide to even contemplate it so privatisation will continue through the back door instead.
Tommy Robinson to campaign for Labour ?
Its rumoured that Tommy Robinson the well known celebrity with right of centre views is to actively campaign for the Labour Party in the next election.
Keir Starmer is said to be delighted that Mr Robinson will campaign for them.
Speaking from his whirlwind tour of everywhere where there is a Tory MP Sir Keir said "it's obvious that will have to fight for every vote. With a resurgent Lib Dem Party we cannot afford to be complacent. They could take a couple of seats from the Conservatives and those seats should be ours not Daveys Tommy is a good fighter and his down to earth working class approach will greatly benefit us"
Commenting on the news that some of his MP's are unhappy at the addition of some new supporters Sir Keir said " I understand their frustrations but it's really important to secure a victory at the next election. Victory is more important than principles and the end justifies the means "
Its rumoured that Tommy Robinson the well known celebrity with right of centre views is to actively campaign for the Labour Party in the next election.
Keir Starmer is said to be delighted that Mr Robinson will campaign for them.
Speaking from his whirlwind tour of everywhere where there is a Tory MP Sir Keir said "it's obvious that will have to fight for every vote. With a resurgent Lib Dem Party we cannot afford to be complacent. They could take a couple of seats from the Conservatives and those seats should be ours not Daveys Tommy is a good fighter and his down to earth working class approach will greatly benefit us"
Commenting on the news that some of his MP's are unhappy at the addition of some new supporters Sir Keir said " I understand their frustrations but it's really important to secure a victory at the next election. Victory is more important than principles and the end justifies the means "
Wombat3 said:
I'd like to see something that involves more personal accountability and responsibility together with lower tolerance for anti-social behaviour, theft (in all forms) & general piss-taking.
Wombat3 said:
Economically we need to give the people that have the ability to create the room to do it and then come down on the people that take the piss (see Thames Water). Less State, not more but much more effective regulation.
I can't think of a single Regulator in this country in my lifetime that has ever had teeth & used them. Don't know why, maybe it's just a factor of our character or not appealing to those in a sector that want to make a name for themselves (compare SEC/DOJ in the US where lawyers go to enhance their reputation)Wombat3 said:
Socially we need to channel money & resources to people that really need it and away from those that choose not to contribute and take a free ride instead.
As difficult a nut to crack as the NHS, the exploiters are always better than the governors (compare cybercrime) and the true worthy recipients are the ones least able to play the system. Wombat3 said:
I'd also like to see a re-assessment and re-alignment of remuneration in the public sector. Some of them are paid too little and some of them much too much. Why is a train driver worth twice what a Nurse is?
Train drivers aren't worth twice what nurses are its just their savvy unions know they can play their cards better than the healthcare ones.Wombat3 said:
We also need to have an honest debate about PS pension schemes too. How many people realise that employer contributions are costing 25-30% for these diamond encrusted schemes? They have long since been deemed unaffordable everywhere else.
A nut that does need smashing.Wombat3 said:
Last but not least is a realisation that the root cause of many issues is the price of property and extending from that rents. We need a long term plan to slow the growth in property prices so that over time property becomes more affordable. I don't disagree with things like elevated council tax on second homes but I'd like to see even higher taxes on foreign-owned property and the removal of some of the costs of buying & selling property for UK residents - specifically SDLT which is just a hindrance to mobility.
This is where I expect Labour policy to focus. It will be difficult re Planning & slippery offshore investors etc but I hope they have the balls to just go for it.anonymoususer said:
Tommy Robinson to campaign for Labour ?
Its rumoured that Tommy Robinson the well known celebrity with right of centre views is to actively campaign for the Labour Party in the next election.
Keir Starmer is said to be delighted that Mr Robinson will campaign for them.
Speaking from his whirlwind tour of everywhere where there is a Tory MP Sir Keir said "it's obvious that will have to fight for every vote. With a resurgent Lib Dem Party we cannot afford to be complacent. They could take a couple of seats from the Conservatives and those seats should be ours not Daveys Tommy is a good fighter and his down to earth working class approach will greatly benefit us"
Commenting on the news that some of his MP's are unhappy at the addition of some new supporters Sir Keir said " I understand their frustrations but it's really important to secure a victory at the next election. Victory is more important than principles and the end justifies the means "
Starmer would probably be ok with it.I didn't realise there was such a dearth of labour mp's that they need to welcome idiots from the other side of the house into the fold.Its rumoured that Tommy Robinson the well known celebrity with right of centre views is to actively campaign for the Labour Party in the next election.
Keir Starmer is said to be delighted that Mr Robinson will campaign for them.
Speaking from his whirlwind tour of everywhere where there is a Tory MP Sir Keir said "it's obvious that will have to fight for every vote. With a resurgent Lib Dem Party we cannot afford to be complacent. They could take a couple of seats from the Conservatives and those seats should be ours not Daveys Tommy is a good fighter and his down to earth working class approach will greatly benefit us"
Commenting on the news that some of his MP's are unhappy at the addition of some new supporters Sir Keir said " I understand their frustrations but it's really important to secure a victory at the next election. Victory is more important than principles and the end justifies the means "
James6112 said:
A clever move by Starmers Labour party.
Appealing to more of the traditional Tory base.
Ignoring their lunatic fringes of course.
From the left to Elphicke.
I guess she’ll be the outer edge to the Labour right!
Appealing to a wide base
Bye bye Tories.
Great work Johnson & his loons.
If Johnson had been a bit more disciplined and stuck to his actual beliefs - strongly supported Remain and a broadly centre right social policy - he would probably be getting ready to take over from Dave as PM now. Hey ho, the price you pay for saddling yourself to the loony right! Appealing to more of the traditional Tory base.
Ignoring their lunatic fringes of course.
From the left to Elphicke.
I guess she’ll be the outer edge to the Labour right!
Appealing to a wide base
Bye bye Tories.
Great work Johnson & his loons.
James6112 said:
A clever move by Starmers Labour party.
Appealing to more of the traditional Tory base.
Ignoring their lunatic fringes of course.
From the left to Elphicke.
I guess she’ll be the outer edge to the Labour right!
Appealing to a wide base
Bye bye Tories.
Great work Johnson & his loons.
She's already started apologising for her appalling actions in the pastAppealing to more of the traditional Tory base.
Ignoring their lunatic fringes of course.
From the left to Elphicke.
I guess she’ll be the outer edge to the Labour right!
Appealing to a wide base
Bye bye Tories.
Great work Johnson & his loons.
https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/new-labour-mp-natalie-e...
S600BSB said:
If Johnson had been a bit more disciplined and stuck to his actual beliefs - strongly supported Remain and a broadly centre right social policy - he would probably be getting ready to take over from Dave as PM now. Hey ho, the price you pay for saddling yourself to the loony right!
The popcorn will be out for the mayhem and infighting within the Tory party after the election. Dead for a whole generation.s1962a said:
She's already started apologising for her appalling actions in the past
https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/new-labour-mp-natalie-e...
Wasn't sorry for them Tuesday.https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/new-labour-mp-natalie-e...
Really sorry for them today.
What a s
tshow.s1962a said:
James6112 said:
A clever move by Starmers Labour party.
Appealing to more of the traditional Tory base.
Ignoring their lunatic fringes of course.
From the left to Elphicke.
I guess she’ll be the outer edge to the Labour right!
Appealing to a wide base
Bye bye Tories.
Great work Johnson & his loons.
She's already started apologising for her appalling actions in the pastAppealing to more of the traditional Tory base.
Ignoring their lunatic fringes of course.
From the left to Elphicke.
I guess she’ll be the outer edge to the Labour right!
Appealing to a wide base
Bye bye Tories.
Great work Johnson & his loons.
https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/new-labour-mp-natalie-e...
Sunak is probably glad to see her gone.
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