The Future of Power Generation in Great Britain
Discussion
Evanivitch said:
Am I? Not sure I've ever expressed or acted on such an opinion.
In fact, I'm not suggesting we close the existing pit at all. But I certainly don't support new ones.
If I infer correctly, you have expressed a certain displeasure of both open-cast and deep-pit mining, but have moderated this expressed opinion to permit existing operations to continue, but there should be no further mining operations either open-cast or deep-pit in the UK regardless.In fact, I'm not suggesting we close the existing pit at all. But I certainly don't support new ones.
Ali G said:
If I infer correctly, you have expressed a certain displeasure of both open-cast and deep-pit mining, but have moderated this expressed opinion to permit existing operations to continue, but there should be no further mining operations either open-cast or deep-pit in the UK regardless.
Have a cookie.Closing open-cast mines early only increases the burden on the local community to fund the regeneration of the site. It's almost inevitable it'll fall on the communities anyway given the planned bankruptcy so many of the operators.
Evanivitch said:
Have a cookie.
Closing open-cast mines early only increases the burden on the local community to fund the regeneration of the site. It's almost inevitable it'll fall on the communities anyway given the planned bankruptcy so many of the operators.
Presumably activists forcing early closure are behaving responsibly then?Closing open-cast mines early only increases the burden on the local community to fund the regeneration of the site. It's almost inevitable it'll fall on the communities anyway given the planned bankruptcy so many of the operators.
Have a finger.
wc98 said:
yep, it was the inert top and bottom ones we made. two different diameters. the density spec you provided for the ceramic was so low we could have fired a handful of non compacted powder and hit it 
i knew about the faked test results issue. the senior blokes that ended up carrying the can for it did very well out of it from what i can remember. they certainly weren't unhappy about the outcome the last time the paid us a visit. i can't remember their names now but they were always interesting to talk to, nice blokes as well.
we used to have to jump through hoops (rightly so) to get clearance to use things like wd40 for cleaning tools and the fact the tool faces that made the pellets in the "green" state were carbide made a lot of people nervous until we convinced them our inspection process would never let any carbide contamination through. it stuck out like a sore thumb on near white 99.5% ceramic ,producing dark blue spotting. we all had a little laugh when we heard what had been happening with the inspections on the other pellet diameters .
as you say there was actually no need for that inspection, from what i understand it was physically impossible to make one out of spec on the o/d, the die and the material used wouldn't allow it. our stuff was 19.5% smaller after sintering/firing so despite your density tolerance being exceptionally wide we still had to hit the numbers every time.
Interesting stuff. Thanks. i knew about the faked test results issue. the senior blokes that ended up carrying the can for it did very well out of it from what i can remember. they certainly weren't unhappy about the outcome the last time the paid us a visit. i can't remember their names now but they were always interesting to talk to, nice blokes as well.we used to have to jump through hoops (rightly so) to get clearance to use things like wd40 for cleaning tools and the fact the tool faces that made the pellets in the "green" state were carbide made a lot of people nervous until we convinced them our inspection process would never let any carbide contamination through. it stuck out like a sore thumb on near white 99.5% ceramic ,producing dark blue spotting. we all had a little laugh when we heard what had been happening with the inspections on the other pellet diameters .
as you say there was actually no need for that inspection, from what i understand it was physically impossible to make one out of spec on the o/d, the die and the material used wouldn't allow it. our stuff was 19.5% smaller after sintering/firing so despite your density tolerance being exceptionally wide we still had to hit the numbers every time.
When the uk nuclear industry was in its prime, it was huge
Evanivitch said:
Who in the UK has been sinking deep mines to maintain the UK capability? If anyone is doing it then they'll be overseas contractors brought in for their expertise.
Anyone who thinks coal mining was well paid given the conditions, health impacts and hazards is lying. Several members of my family worked the South Wales pits, all called it an honest days work but none of them were considered well-off in their communities. I'm pretty sure most the people of Merthyr Tydfil today would take 2/3rds of the pay of a "well paid" miner if the alternative was to sit in an air-conditioned call centre.
Have you not noticed the reduction in railway lines?
You're right that coal stations have a small footprint, if you ignore the large, dusty coal pile that is required next to them...
Small foot print compared to a wind farm Anyone who thinks coal mining was well paid given the conditions, health impacts and hazards is lying. Several members of my family worked the South Wales pits, all called it an honest days work but none of them were considered well-off in their communities. I'm pretty sure most the people of Merthyr Tydfil today would take 2/3rds of the pay of a "well paid" miner if the alternative was to sit in an air-conditioned call centre.
Have you not noticed the reduction in railway lines?
You're right that coal stations have a small footprint, if you ignore the large, dusty coal pile that is required next to them...
, and the coal stocks aren't that dusty, they don't need to be as big as the cegb made them. For political reasons they were big to enable them to run for months during a coal strike 
Railway lines! Beeching hasn't been out with his axe. If we reopened coal mines, they would have access to the rail network and we would site new coal stations on old where railways are available, not rocket science. It would not be difficult to reinstate the coal industry, just very very expensive. As to pay, while not rich, it payed for a nice brand new 30's semi with a big garden, four kids and a good life. Ok, hard work.
But it won't happen, because coal is evil.
Gary C said:
Interesting stuff. Thanks.
When the uk nuclear industry was in its prime, it was huge
It would be preferable imho if UK nuclear were to be humongous again with exportable safe tech and a self-sustaining industry.When the uk nuclear industry was in its prime, it was huge
Unfortunately, I am coming to the unfortunate conclusion that the UK politics is too riven, which reflects that society is too riven.
Despite efforts to learn, learn, learn there are still too many who have not learned anything at all.
Too much Friday night - tomorrow I shall be sober!
Gary C said:
Small foot print compared to a wind farm , and the coal stocks aren't that dusty, they don't need to be as big as the cegb made them. For political reasons they were big to enable them to run for months during a coal strike
Railway lines! Beeching hasn't been out with his axe. If we reopened coal mines, they would have access to the rail network and we would site new coal stations on old where railways are available, not rocket science. It would not be difficult to reinstate the coal industry, just very very expensive. As to pay, while not rich, it payed for a nice brand new 30's semi with a big garden, four kids and a good life. Ok, hard work.
But it won't happen, because coal is evil.
I've been past the fence at Aberthaw enough times to know you haven't seen a coal pile in 30 years., and the coal stocks aren't that dusty, they don't need to be as big as the cegb made them. For political reasons they were big to enable them to run for months during a coal strike Railway lines! Beeching hasn't been out with his axe. If we reopened coal mines, they would have access to the rail network and we would site new coal stations on old where railways are available, not rocket science. It would not be difficult to reinstate the coal industry, just very very expensive. As to pay, while not rich, it payed for a nice brand new 30's semi with a big garden, four kids and a good life. Ok, hard work.
But it won't happen, because coal is evil.
Do you think the old coal lines have been sat there idle for decades? They've been turned into footpaths, housing on their boundaries and bridges fallen into disrepair.
We can't even electrify the western mainline, and you think we can reform the rail to support coal?
And I thought you all considered renewables a pointless waste of money...
Some of you would welcome the return to these days...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/stories-42357608/deat...
Less coal, more wind
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/stories-42357608/deat...
Less coal, more wind
MYOB said:
Some of you would welcome the return to these days...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/stories-42357608/deat...
Less coal, more wind
Don't worry it's coming by the back door in the growth of log/coal burners for domestic properties, people are burning anything they can get their hands on, but we cannot have regulated industrial use, http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/stories-42357608/deat...
Less coal, more wind
coal burning power stations were never the major cause of smog, as was proved when the smog disappeared but we still had coal burning stations.
And still we have no answers to security of electricity supply.
I agree we need more wind to make the turbines work.
Evanivitch said:
PRTVR said:
coal burning power stations were never the major cause of smog, as was proved when the smog disappeared but we still had coal burning stations.
Do you have a reference to support that claim?BP to add to intermittency by buying Lightsource
Edited to delete repetition
Edited to delete repetition
Edited by rolando on Saturday 16th December 13:09
Paddy_N_Murphy said:
Yes of course it does- stupid rhetorical question.
You can see how the investment of Taxpayers Money has worked in reducing costs.
Or is that too difficult to understand?
How come my bill keeps going up way beyond inflation? If costs are being reduced, as you say, why isn't that filtering down to the end user?You can see how the investment of Taxpayers Money has worked in reducing costs.
Or is that too difficult to understand?
rolando said:
Paddy_N_Murphy said:
Yes of course it does- stupid rhetorical question.
You can see how the investment of Taxpayers Money has worked in reducing costs.
Or is that too difficult to understand?
How come my bill keeps going up way beyond inflation? If costs are being reduced, as you say, why isn't that filtering down to the end user?You can see how the investment of Taxpayers Money has worked in reducing costs.
Or is that too difficult to understand?
Paddy_N_Murphy said:
No it won’t happen because of economics.
Take the romance out of it
i was being tongue in cheek, but really do you think wind would thrive if suddenly we found out that CO2 was fine and good for the planet ?Take the romance out of it
UK coal would be more expensive than imports, no denying that, but I dont think it would be uneconomic given a level domestic only playing field (not that such a think is ever likely)
Evanivitch said:
Gary C said:
Small foot print compared to a wind farm , and the coal stocks aren't that dusty, they don't need to be as big as the cegb made them. For political reasons they were big to enable them to run for months during a coal strike
Railway lines! Beeching hasn't been out with his axe. If we reopened coal mines, they would have access to the rail network and we would site new coal stations on old where railways are available, not rocket science. It would not be difficult to reinstate the coal industry, just very very expensive. As to pay, while not rich, it payed for a nice brand new 30's semi with a big garden, four kids and a good life. Ok, hard work.
But it won't happen, because coal is evil.
I've been past the fence at Aberthaw enough times to know you haven't seen a coal pile in 30 years., and the coal stocks aren't that dusty, they don't need to be as big as the cegb made them. For political reasons they were big to enable them to run for months during a coal strike Railway lines! Beeching hasn't been out with his axe. If we reopened coal mines, they would have access to the rail network and we would site new coal stations on old where railways are available, not rocket science. It would not be difficult to reinstate the coal industry, just very very expensive. As to pay, while not rich, it payed for a nice brand new 30's semi with a big garden, four kids and a good life. Ok, hard work.
But it won't happen, because coal is evil.
Do you think the old coal lines have been sat there idle for decades? They've been turned into footpaths, housing on their boundaries and bridges fallen into disrepair.
We can't even electrify the western mainline, and you think we can reform the rail to support coal?
And I thought you all considered renewables a pointless waste of money...
still enough sites left for modern large coal (but only for a couple of years I admit) rugely, ironbridge, drax, cottam, some still running and a couple able (just) to be revived. still have links.
dont need many sites. but I admit they are vanishing fast, but still would be an option (just)
If you were to green field, it would have to be in an area with rail links, doubt thats impossible. now lines to new coal fields maybe harder as the coal tends to like being where it is, so the lines have to come to it .
Yes, as I said earlier, investement back to coal would be huge, politically unacceptable, possibly humanly nice climate damaging, but not impossible. Lets face it, the coal is there and if the lights went out, it would suddenly be more acceptable
Edited by Gary C on Saturday 16th December 16:56
Gary C said:
Evanivitch said:
Gary C said:
Small foot print compared to a wind farm , and the coal stocks aren't that dusty, they don't need to be as big as the cegb made them. For political reasons they were big to enable them to run for months during a coal strike
Railway lines! Beeching hasn't been out with his axe. If we reopened coal mines, they would have access to the rail network and we would site new coal stations on old where railways are available, not rocket science. It would not be difficult to reinstate the coal industry, just very very expensive. As to pay, while not rich, it payed for a nice brand new 30's semi with a big garden, four kids and a good life. Ok, hard work.
But it won't happen, because coal is evil.
I've been past the fence at Aberthaw enough times to know you haven't seen a coal pile in 30 years., and the coal stocks aren't that dusty, they don't need to be as big as the cegb made them. For political reasons they were big to enable them to run for months during a coal strike Railway lines! Beeching hasn't been out with his axe. If we reopened coal mines, they would have access to the rail network and we would site new coal stations on old where railways are available, not rocket science. It would not be difficult to reinstate the coal industry, just very very expensive. As to pay, while not rich, it payed for a nice brand new 30's semi with a big garden, four kids and a good life. Ok, hard work.
But it won't happen, because coal is evil.
Do you think the old coal lines have been sat there idle for decades? They've been turned into footpaths, housing on their boundaries and bridges fallen into disrepair.
We can't even electrify the western mainline, and you think we can reform the rail to support coal?
And I thought you all considered renewables a pointless waste of money...
still enough sites left for modern large coal (but only for a couple of years I admit) rugely, ironbridge, drax, cottam, some still running and a couple able (just) to be revived. still have links.
dont need many sites. but I admit they are vanishing fast, but still would be an option (just)
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