Scottish Politics / Independence - Vol 12

[8.4L 154]

jshell said:

8.4L 154 said:

jshell said:

Quite horrific, and next down the pipe from this wonderful administration is the Bill to ban so-called 'conversion therapy'.

Conversion therapy sounds terrible until you understand the definitions, inclusions and potential outcomes of this piece of legislation.

The wording includes making it illegal to have discussions with your children over their choices in terms of sexuality. So, your 12 yr old who doesn't know whether they are Batman or Barbie cannot be asked by a parent or doctor: 'Are you sure you want to change gender?', or 'What makes you think that you are in the wrong body?'

The proposed penalties for this parental transgression are up to and including the removal of your children. WTAF?

https://www.scottishlegal.com/articles/plans-for-n...

.pdf download of KC Aidan O'Neill's opinion: https://www.christian.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/ai...

No it doesn't.

Forgive me if I take a double-silk King's Councel over yours.

Forgive me for relying on the wording of the actual legislation consultation rather than that of a partisan christian KC

Consultation doc said:

the legislation does not apply to non-directive or non-coercive discussions, questioning, guidance or general parental direction, guidance, controls and restrictions.

That was just one paragraph out of many making it clear your claim is false.

https://www.gov.scot/publications/ending-conversio...

[jshell]

8.4L 154 said:

jshell said:

8.4L 154 said:

jshell said:

Quite horrific, and next down the pipe from this wonderful administration is the Bill to ban so-called 'conversion therapy'.

Conversion therapy sounds terrible until you understand the definitions, inclusions and potential outcomes of this piece of legislation.

The wording includes making it illegal to have discussions with your children over their choices in terms of sexuality. So, your 12 yr old who doesn't know whether they are Batman or Barbie cannot be asked by a parent or doctor: 'Are you sure you want to change gender?', or 'What makes you think that you are in the wrong body?'

The proposed penalties for this parental transgression are up to and including the removal of your children. WTAF?

https://www.scottishlegal.com/articles/plans-for-n...

.pdf download of KC Aidan O'Neill's opinion: https://www.christian.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/ai...

No it doesn't.

Forgive me if I take a double-silk King's Councel over yours.

Forgive me for relying on the wording of the actual legislation consultation rather than that of a partisan christian KC

Consultation doc said:

the legislation does not apply to non-directive or non-coercive discussions, questioning, guidance or general parental direction, guidance, controls and restrictions.

That was just one paragraph out of many making it clear your claim is false.

https://www.gov.scot/publications/ending-conversio...

Forgive me for following the legal-eagle, not the despicable, forked-tongue, lying, insidious, incompetent and utterly nasty shower of sh_t who would sell their own children.

This minority administration have shown that they will do and say anything to get their way and buy off the support of minority interest groups who use them as a vehicle for their aims.

The endless backtracking and broken promises show EXACTLY which way this will go. WItness this dreaful and authoritarian hate speech bill!

I have no issue with any of the LGBT****** crowd. I don't care if my child tells me they are gay because they will get love and support. I've worked with 3 different M-F transitioning people in 2 countires and am very supportive of their future contentment. But this push by the Trans-activists, who are very anti-women must be resisted. This push by the Scottish Green deviants must be fought on all fronts because their ultimate targets are women and the family unit.

[Ian974]

I haven't gone through the above links and I am not a lawyer, but through the past number of years it seems like Scot gov have been building a reasonable track record of creating well intentioned but poorly written legislation which then makes enforcement of the issue it had been written to resolve more difficult than before.

I'd put anything they write in consultations and guidelines in the same category as "the spirit of the rules" spoken about in Motorsport whenever someone finds a loophole that no one else likes.

[irc]

The man of integrity takes a sickie.

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/24200403.micha...

[dxg]

irc said:

The man of integrity takes a sickie.

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/24200403.micha...

Apparently, he can't be sacked while off on the sick. How convenient.

[Mercdriver]

[quote=Ian974]I haven't gone through the above links and I am not a lawyer, but through the past number of years it seems like Scot gov have been building a reasonable track record of creating well intentioned but poorly written legislation which then makes enforcement of the issue it had been written to resolve more difficult than before.

The idiot Lorna is at it again, another bill which is poorly written and deliberately vague. A tax on fish and chips takeaways, expensive enough with the energy costs and cooking oil. Attempting to curb flytipping, good luck with that. Due to be passed at first reading next week. The SNP must be desperate to keep their snouts in the trough supporting these idiots.

Plus fines, must keep the peasants in check, if you put the wrong items in your bin.

Let’s hope the councils just ignore it.

[Klippie]

irc said:

The man of integrity takes a sickie.

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/24200403.micha...

Mathison is finished he's been tipped off what's coming and like a coward won't stand up to face the music.

Now I'am more interested in Dumza's involvement in this scandal, he's supported Mathison from the very begining, both he and Mathison have lied to Parliment on more than one occasion so why are the two of them not being investigated and punished by the Parliamentary committees.

[Error_404_Username_not_found]

Klippie said:

Mathison is finished he's been tipped off what's coming and like a coward won't stand up to face the music.

Now I'am more interested in Dumza's involvement in this scandal, he's supported Mathison from the very begining, both he and Mathison have lied to Parliment on more than one occasion so why are the two of them not being investigated and punished by the Parliamentary committees.

Maybe because it has long been to the advantage of the Conservative government to keep the SNP in power in Holyrood and SNP bums on the green benches down South. They crowd out what would otherwise be a sizeable Labour influence.
Labour, on the other hand, have nothing to lose by pursuing SNP malfeasance and much to gain from it.
Which might get interesting, if they have the guts and motivation to do it.
IMO there's more than enough ammunition to see several of these people locked up. Naming no names...

Also it appears the SNP government has direct political control of the police and judiciary in Scotland to a frankly sinister degree.
Again, IMO.

[jshell]

Ian974 said:

I haven't gone through the above links and I am not a lawyer, but through the past number of years it seems like Scot gov have been building a reasonable track record of creating well intentioned but poorly written legislation which then makes enforcement of the issue it had been written to resolve more difficult than before.

I'd put anything they write in consultations and guidelines in the same category as "the spirit of the rules" spoken about in Motorsport whenever someone finds a loophole that no one else likes.

Yes, that's the issue! They take advice from advocacy groups, then badly write legislation and try to force it through. If they stood back, had it properly reviewed then they might make some positive changes.

[Evercross]

Composer62 said:

I'd say from mid 80's onwards, the acceptance of LGB has been pretty much universal in the UK (with some exceptions) but the T element has only recently come to the fore. I'm not talking about drag artists which has always been a thing for decades.

For a possible explanation - follow the money.

Stonewall was the pre-eminent pressure group in establishing the rights and legislation for L,G and B people that we now all pretty much accept and take for granted. They operate as a charity, and as well as campaigning they have (or rather had) a very large turnover offering consultancy to businesses and organisations with regards to LGB rights and legislation as well as training/awareness courses for employees of those businesses and organisations.

However, they saw their income falling off a cliff as the battle they set out to fight had pretty much been won by the last decade, so, they had to find a new cause to keep the gravy-train rolling.

A lot of their founding members have since disowned Stonewall because of their shift of emphasis into "less defined" areas.

Simon Fanshawe.

[Klippie]

Error_404_Username_not_found said:

Maybe because it has long been to the advantage of the Conservative government to keep the SNP in power in Holyrood and SNP bums on the green benches down South. They crowd out what would otherwise be a sizeable Labour influence.
Labour, on the other hand, have nothing to lose by pursuing SNP malfeasance and much to gain from it.
Which might get interesting, if they have the guts and motivation to do it.
IMO there's more than enough ammunition to see several of these people locked up. Naming no names...

Also it appears the SNP government has direct political control of the police and judiciary in Scotland to a frankly sinister degree.
Again, IMO.

I agree 100%...its all changed now for them with Boris all but destroying their majority in UK Parliment they are now directly competing for votes with Labour so the Scotland vote becomes very important again for all the parties.

As you say interesting.

[Composer62]

Evercross said:

Composer62 said:

I'd say from mid 80's onwards, the acceptance of LGB has been pretty much universal in the UK (with some exceptions) but the T element has only recently come to the fore. I'm not talking about drag artists which has always been a thing for decades.

For a possible explanation - follow the money.

Stonewall was the pre-eminent pressure group in establishing the rights and legislation for L,G and B people that we now all pretty much accept and take for granted. They operate as a charity, and as well as campaigning they have (or rather had) a very large turnover offering consultancy to businesses and organisations with regards to LGB rights and legislation as well as training/awareness courses for employees of those businesses and organisations.

However, they saw their income falling off a cliff as the battle they set out to fight had pretty much been won by the last decade, so, they had to find a new cause to keep the gravy-train rolling.

A lot of their founding members have since disowned Stonewall because of their shift of emphasis into "less defined" areas.

Simon Fanshawe.

Yes, indeed Evercross, that's a very good point and, for me, fits perfectly with what we're seeing now.

[irc]

Man of integrity too sick to do his job at Holyrood and face questions but well enough to attend events in his constituency.

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/24201704.mathe...

How did someone that dishonest ever get to the top of government?

Meanwhile SNP managers have asked the opposition to subtract one of their MSPs from votes so they were not taking advantage of phone boy's sickness absence.

[irc]

Excellent wind up from Alistair Jack.

" Alister Jack has written to the First Minister offering to help the Scottish Parliament come up with a system for recalling wrongdoing politicians.

The Scottish Secretary told Humza Yousaf that “the UK Government stands ready to work with the Scottish Government in making improvements in this area of such importance to the health of our democracy.” "

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/24202291.jack-...

[alangla]

irc said:

Excellent wind up from Alistair Jack.

" Alister Jack has written to the First Minister offering to help the Scottish Parliament come up with a system for recalling wrongdoing politicians.

The Scottish Secretary told Humza Yousaf that “the UK Government stands ready to work with the Scottish Government in making improvements in this area of such importance to the health of our democracy.” "

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/24202291.jack-...

There is absolutely no way any of the turkeys on any side of the Scottish Parliament are ever going to vote for the Christmas of allowing their electorate to drag their snouts out of the trough.

[irc]

Come to think of it while he doesn't do the crowd pleasing speeches that Mordaunt does Alistair Jack has been quietly effective and reminding the SNP that the tail doesn't get to wag the dog.

"Alister Jack became the first Scottish secretary in history to use a Section 35 order when he blocked the Scottish Parliament’s Gender Recognition Reform Bill."

https://news.stv.tv/politics/uk-government-to-cont...

Which, to continue the animal metaphors, was possibly the straw that broke Sturgeon's back. Before then the UK made the mistake (as revealed in the Covid Whatsapps) of letting the bully take inch after inch.

[Evercross]

irc said:

Come to think of it while he doesn't do the crowd pleasing speeches that Mordaunt does Alistair Jack has been quietly effective and reminding the SNP that the tail doesn't get to wag the dog.

"Alister Jack became the first Scottish secretary in history to use a Section 35 order when he blocked the Scottish Parliament’s Gender Recognition Reform Bill."

https://news.stv.tv/politics/uk-government-to-cont...

Which, to continue the animal metaphors, was possibly the straw that broke Sturgeon's back. Before then the UK made the mistake (as revealed in the Covid Whatsapps) of letting the bully take inch after inch.

Careful.

There's someone in here who thinks that using s.35 was a travesty of democracy, as opposed to a legitimate use of legislation that existed since the inception of Scottish devolution (away back when the SNP were a minority party that openly campaigned against EU membership etc.), done in order to kill an attempt to introduce laws in Scotland that interfered and affected laws in the UK - something that is expressly against both the spirit and the letter of the devolution settlement that all Scottish Governments agree to operate under.

There's a lot wrong with the devolution settlement (and the SNP go out of their way to exploit every failing), but this was bang on.

ETA. The lack of separation of legislature and judiciary (a fundamental rule of all nations that call themselves democratic) that exists in Scotland by having the most senior judge being able to sit in the government's cabinet was something that Alex Salmond personally addressed by not appointing the Lord Advocate as chief advisor to the Scottish Government and not giving them a cabinet position (respect to him for doing that). Sturgeon reversed that decision as one of her first actions as FM.

Edited by Evercross on Friday 22 March 10:02

[jshell]

irc said:

Come to think of it while he doesn't do the crowd pleasing speeches that Mordaunt does Alistair Jack has been quietly effective and reminding the SNP that the tail doesn't get to wag the dog.

"Alister Jack became the first Scottish secretary in history to use a Section 35 order when he blocked the Scottish Parliament’s Gender Recognition Reform Bill."

https://news.stv.tv/politics/uk-government-to-cont...

Which, to continue the animal metaphors, was possibly the straw that broke Sturgeon's back. Before then the UK made the mistake (as revealed in the Covid Whatsapps) of letting the bully take inch after inch.

Didn't the Isla Bronson & Kelso female rapist do that? I seem to remember that during the Isla Bronson rapist debacle we also had:

Young girl disappears in Kelso, quickly followed by:

Day 1 - Child found, having been kidnapped by trans woman butcher
Day 2 - Sturgeon folds her hand
Day 3 - Police Scotland announce that the recovered child was raped by the trans women butcher

I can only imagine that PS tipped Nippy off as to what was coming on Day 3 of that week....

But, as always, I could be wrong.

[irc]

jshell said:

irc said:

Come to think of it while he doesn't do the crowd pleasing speeches that Mordaunt does Alistair Jack has been quietly effective and reminding the SNP that the tail doesn't get to wag the dog.

"Alister Jack became the first Scottish secretary in history to use a Section 35 order when he blocked the Scottish Parliament’s Gender Recognition Reform Bill."

https://news.stv.tv/politics/uk-government-to-cont...

Which, to continue the animal metaphors, was possibly the straw that broke Sturgeon's back. Before then the UK made the mistake (as revealed in the Covid Whatsapps) of letting the bully take inch after inch.

Didn't the Isla Bronson & Kelso female rapist do that? I seem to remember that during the Isla Bronson rapist debacle we also had:

Young girl disappears in Kelso, quickly followed by:

Day 1 - Child found, having been kidnapped by trans woman butcher
Day 2 - Sturgeon folds her hand
Day 3 - Police Scotland announce that the recovered child was raped by the trans women butcher

I can only imagine that PS tipped Nippy off as to what was coming on Day 3 of that week....

But, as always, I could be wrong.

You could be right. My memory of the week Nippy chucked it is a bit fuzzy due to being experienced in an alcoholic haze of celebration.

Her jacket was on a shoogly peg when she invented a third sex of rapist afer refusing to say whether Bryson was a man or a woman.

[jshell]

irc said:

jshell said:

irc said:

Come to think of it while he doesn't do the crowd pleasing speeches that Mordaunt does Alistair Jack has been quietly effective and reminding the SNP that the tail doesn't get to wag the dog.

"Alister Jack became the first Scottish secretary in history to use a Section 35 order when he blocked the Scottish Parliament’s Gender Recognition Reform Bill."

https://news.stv.tv/politics/uk-government-to-cont...

Which, to continue the animal metaphors, was possibly the straw that broke Sturgeon's back. Before then the UK made the mistake (as revealed in the Covid Whatsapps) of letting the bully take inch after inch.

Didn't the Isla Bronson & Kelso female rapist do that? I seem to remember that during the Isla Bronson rapist debacle we also had:

Young girl disappears in Kelso, quickly followed by:

Day 1 - Child found, having been kidnapped by trans woman butcher
Day 2 - Sturgeon folds her hand
Day 3 - Police Scotland announce that the recovered child was raped by the trans women butcher

I can only imagine that PS tipped Nippy off as to what was coming on Day 3 of that week....

But, as always, I could be wrong.

You could be right. My memory of the week Nippy chucked it is a bit fuzzy due to being experienced in an alcoholic haze of celebration.

Her jacket was on a shoogly peg when she invented a third sex of rapist afer refusing to say whether Bryson was a man or a woman.

It was an incredible spiral into madness over a few weeks and the mental gymnastics being displayed were phenomenal! I fear we will see the same over the Police Scotland Hate Monster campaign that has been ditched after social media commentators ridiculed PS's overt racism towards white males. That will be followed by the outcry over the conversion therapy bill.

Why can't they just focus on real issues?