How do we think EU negotiations will go? (Vol 5)
Discussion
PurpleMoonlight said:
Jazzy Jag said:
Assuming that we are happy with the deal Canada has, the EU clearly are.
1. Take copy of Canada agreement.
2. Change every occurrence of the word Canada to UK.
3. Sign at bottom.
Great, we will be able to export maple syrup tariff free ...1. Take copy of Canada agreement.
2. Change every occurrence of the word Canada to UK.
3. Sign at bottom.
Obviously we'll also be starting a nuclear war with France but they'll probably still want maple syrup.
PurpleMoonlight said:
Why thank you sir.
The unintended consequences of copy/pasting international trade agreements.
I thought PH team leave wanted WTO. The unintended consequences of copy/pasting international trade agreements.
http://leavehq.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=128&fb...
Ghibli said:
Did you read it?The last paragraph:
"One can say, unequivocally, that the UK could not survive as a trading nation by relying on the WTO Option. It would be an unmitigated disaster, and no responsible government should allow it. The option should be rejected."
PurpleMoonlight said:
Did you read it?
The last paragraph:
"One can say, unequivocally, that the UK could not survive as a trading nation by relying on the WTO Option. It would be an unmitigated disaster, and no responsible government should allow it. The option should be rejected."
I have been told over and over by PH team leave The last paragraph:
"One can say, unequivocally, that the UK could not survive as a trading nation by relying on the WTO Option. It would be an unmitigated disaster, and no responsible government should allow it. The option should be rejected."
Leave HQ must have another version of Brexit.
B'stard Child said:
Didn't answer my question I'd expect the project team costs with a team of several hundred involved in a 1bn project to be a significant element of the project cost???
The comparison with capital projects is a red herring: these agreements would not be capital projects. There will also be a lot of commonality between different agreements, so nor are they really one-off bespoke projects. In terms of personnel (and I have decades of experience actually negotiating deals in, and for, Whitehall), what the government will need to provide is a responsive and decisive intelligent client capability. Whitehall should be able to find bodies to do the grunt work but can buy in legal resources from one of the firms on the government legal advisory framework and from the consultancy firms for project/programme management to absorb any shortfall in staff/skills.
This is the model they tend to use on, say, renewal of the passport contract or other periodic or one-off big jobs, and with some success. (You don't hear of the jobs that get done well e.g. the last passport contract, which was tied up with ID cards but change proofed to survive despite the ID cards not being continued with.)
I'd imagine (and I have experience of such agreements in the realm of security co-operation) that you would be looking at a team of ten for most of the work strands, with perhaps 25 on each of the big FTAs. Pure back of the fag packet feel on my part, but actually too large a team on these agreements and you start tripping over each other.
Personally, if asked to direct the task, I'd probably try to set up a project office responsible for resourcing and timetabling with a pool of staff whose skills would be needed across agreements and then appoint project managers, lead negotiators and small core team of negotiators/support responsible for particular agreements who would roster and draw down skilled resources as necessary. This would also help optimise the use of scarce resources and avoid having expensive people sitting on the bench waiting to be used as the programme office could advance or slow activities to match available resources.
Large? Yes. Complex? Yes. Beyond the resources available? No. Beyond the wit of the CS? No. This kind of agreement the CS does a lot better and more painlessly than some of the big capital procurements - if you look at the number of agreements on tax information sharing that HMRC has knocked out in the past few years, it is clear that it can be done straightforwardly if the political will is there.
The fly in the ointment would be more likely political interference/failure to take hard decisions.
Nickgnome said:
That’s the best you can provide. I ask again what experience have you got in relation to the size and diversity of teams required to carry out large scale negotaitions?
How do you organise and structure your Team?
I’ll give you a clue on a relatively small scale by comparison 1bn project the team was several hundred.
Yes, but assuming it was a property/managed service deal, you'd have needed architects, QSs, service level experts, FM etc etc. You don't need that many of them in a trade deal and you certainly don't need them full time for the duration of the negotiations.How do you organise and structure your Team?
I’ll give you a clue on a relatively small scale by comparison 1bn project the team was several hundred.
Ghibli said:
PurpleMoonlight said:
Did you read it?
The last paragraph:
"One can say, unequivocally, that the UK could not survive as a trading nation by relying on the WTO Option. It would be an unmitigated disaster, and no responsible government should allow it. The option should be rejected."
I have been told over and over by PH team leave The last paragraph:
"One can say, unequivocally, that the UK could not survive as a trading nation by relying on the WTO Option. It would be an unmitigated disaster, and no responsible government should allow it. The option should be rejected."
Leave HQ must have another version of Brexit.
Hayek said:
Leave HQ seems to be Richard/Peter North. What they say may or may not have much significance, I'm sure they make some good points but they also seem to go out of their way to be deliberately contrarian.
That statement can also apply to dribbly, apart from the bit about making good points off course 
. psi310398 said:
Nickgnome said:
That’s the best you can provide. I ask again what experience have you got in relation to the size and diversity of teams required to carry out large scale negotaitions?
How do you organise and structure your Team?
I’ll give you a clue on a relatively small scale by comparison 1bn project the team was several hundred.
Yes, but assuming it was a property/managed service deal, you'd have needed architects, QSs, service level experts, FM etc etc. You don't need that many of them in a trade deal and you certainly don't need them full time for the duration of the negotiations.How do you organise and structure your Team?
I’ll give you a clue on a relatively small scale by comparison 1bn project the team was several hundred.
Lololol Dyson nothing more to say.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-45950377
Hmmm, availability of talent, regional supply chains and proximity to target markets...all make the UK unattractive after Brexit.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-45950377
Hmmm, availability of talent, regional supply chains and proximity to target markets...all make the UK unattractive after Brexit.
wisbech said:
Jazzy Jag said:
Assuming that we are happy with the deal Canada has, the EU clearly are.
1. Take copy of Canada agreement.
2. Change every occurrence of the word Canada to UK.
3. Sign at bottom.
But we want Canada +++, so not that straightforward 1. Take copy of Canada agreement.
2. Change every occurrence of the word Canada to UK.
3. Sign at bottom.
Even as a remoaner and Daily Mail hater I like this:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-6305601...
"Saboteurs endangering our nation"
"Enough is enough. The time is over for griping, self-promotion and peacocking across the political stage by Tory MPs determined to undermine their leader. Don’t these posturing rebels understand they are sabotaging the Prime Minister at the most crucial point in our history since the Second World War?"
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-6305601...
"Saboteurs endangering our nation"
"Enough is enough. The time is over for griping, self-promotion and peacocking across the political stage by Tory MPs determined to undermine their leader. Don’t these posturing rebels understand they are sabotaging the Prime Minister at the most crucial point in our history since the Second World War?"
Roboraver said:
Lololol Dyson nothing more to say.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-45950377
Hmmm, availability of talent, regional supply chains and proximity to target markets...all make the UK unattractive after Brexit.
And he moved production of the vacuum cleaners to the Far East years ago, whilst we were under the magic spell of the economic miracle of the EU.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-45950377
Hmmm, availability of talent, regional supply chains and proximity to target markets...all make the UK unattractive after Brexit.
We aren't going to win some battles whether we're in the EU or not.
F1GTRUeno said:
SpeckledJim said:
And he moved production of the vacuum cleaners to the Far East years ago, whilst we were under the magic spell of the economic miracle of the EU.
We aren't going to win some battles whether we're in the EU or not.
Which battles ARE we going to win when we're out?We aren't going to win some battles whether we're in the EU or not.
As it is it looks like rats leaving the sinking hms brexit
F1GTRUeno said:
SpeckledJim said:
And he moved production of the vacuum cleaners to the Far East years ago, whilst we were under the magic spell of the economic miracle of the EU.
We aren't going to win some battles whether we're in the EU or not.
Which battles ARE we going to win when we're out?We aren't going to win some battles whether we're in the EU or not.
multiple fronts atm.
SpeckledJim said:
Roboraver said:
Lololol Dyson nothing more to say.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-45950377
Hmmm, availability of talent, regional supply chains and proximity to target markets...all make the UK unattractive after Brexit.
And he moved production of the vacuum cleaners to the Far East years ago, whilst we were under the magic spell of the economic miracle of the EU.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-45950377
Hmmm, availability of talent, regional supply chains and proximity to target markets...all make the UK unattractive after Brexit.
We aren't going to win some battles whether we're in the EU or not.
anything that can be spun "bad" = because Brexit
anything that can be spun "good" = because EU
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