Scottish Referendum / Independence
Discussion
thinfourth2 said:
There are very few matters which effect England only and where there are matters which effect England only i'd happily see Scottish MPs barred from voting on them.
Many in England would have settled for "Scottish MPs barred from proposing and implementing them" between 1997-2010.We really are getting ahead of ourselves with this question. Firstly there seems to be little chance of a successful yes vote for 'independence' being likely before the end of 2014, hence all the SNP squirming when Cameron tries to set some boundaries. Unless the world economy changes hugely for the better in the next two years, the canny scots are never going to risk it on purely financial terms. Secondly, if Scotland ever does get to the point where they are in a position to change their dependence from Westminster to Brussels, the SNP seem to be under the misapprehension that Scotland will be able to pick and choose how it's done and set the rules. Nothing will be further from the truth as Cameron's warning shots demonstrate. Westminster will use all its resources to ensure Scotland gets the worst deal possible and has already made it clear that it will have to be an in or out decision, not a cherry-picking exercise for the Scots to keep the bits of the union they like such HM the Q and the Pound.
Personally, as someone with Scottish family, I'm in favour of Scottish 'independence', but to consider it within the next five years would be madness given the current economic situation and to expect to dictate the terms of any separation, absolute delusion.
Personally, as someone with Scottish family, I'm in favour of Scottish 'independence', but to consider it within the next five years would be madness given the current economic situation and to expect to dictate the terms of any separation, absolute delusion.
scenario8 said:
My parents lived in Edinburgh for five years in the 70s and return to Edinburgh every year to visit friends. They love it. For the first time they took a holiday outside of Edinburgh last year and came home very upset by the anti-English sentiments they came across.
I find this really bizarre, the missus and I visit Scotland several times a year and we have never been treated with anything less than unfailing hospitality, even when supporting Liverpool in a Liverpool Celtic game, in a Celtic pub. 
ViperPict said:
We wouldn't need a large Navy but we would still need one. Using the model of Denmark, even with our fair share of current Navy vessels, we'd be well under-provided. The required ships would be built in Scotland.
Why shouldn't the UK government switch all the RN vessels being built in Rosyth and on the Clydeto British yards after independance?
Will we be able to cover this gap by building half a dozen patrol ships?
Caulkhead said:
We really are getting ahead of ourselves with this question. Firstly there seems to be little chance of a successful yes vote for 'independence' being likely before the end of 2014, hence all the SNP squirming when Cameron tries to set some boundaries. Unless the world economy changes hugely for the better in the next two years, the canny scots are never going to risk it on purely financial terms. Secondly, if Scotland ever does get to the point where they are in a position to change their dependence from Westminster to Brussels, the SNP seem to be under the misapprehension that Scotland will be able to pick and choose how it's done and set the rules. Nothing will be further from the truth as Cameron's warning shots demonstrate. Westminster will use all its resources to ensure Scotland gets the worst deal possible and has already made it clear that it will have to be an in or out decision, not a cherry-picking exercise for the Scots to keep the bits of the union they like such HM the Q and the Pound.
Personally, as someone with Scottish family, I'm in favour of Scottish 'independence', but to consider it within the next five years would be madness given the current economic situation and to expect to dictate the terms of any separation, absolute delusion.
For 'SNP squirming' read 'sticking hard to their guns' while Scameron stamps his feet in his wee blue booties... Personally, as someone with Scottish family, I'm in favour of Scottish 'independence', but to consider it within the next five years would be madness given the current economic situation and to expect to dictate the terms of any separation, absolute delusion.
But the 'current economic climate' argument is one I would use for independnce! Osbourne's strategy of 'recovery' is a f
king joke - let's get out before he sinks the ship. IrateNinja said:
ViperPict said:
We wouldn't need a large Navy but we would still need one. Using the model of Denmark, even with our fair share of current Navy vessels, we'd be well under-provided. The required ships would be built in Scotland.
Why shouldn't the UK government switch all the RN vessels being built in Rosyth and on the Clydeto British yards after independance?
Will we be able to cover this gap by building half a dozen patrol ships?
ViperPict said:
This is a very accurate account of the situation...
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/edwest/100128764...
And in the Torygraph too!
nope, no hcip on your shoulder...http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/edwest/100128764...
And in the Torygraph too!
ViperPict said:
The so called Scots anti-independence
so called by who? you? i'm not anti scots, or anti independance- i'm just pro unity- beleive people are stronger together than divided.ViperPict said:
on here are really not representative - PH has a VERY skewed demography! But it's the opinion in 1000 days that counts and the tide is only heading in one direction
Conjecture at the moment- only a referendum will tell youViperPict said:
You'll find from my posts that nothing I say is anti-English and there is no chip on my shoulder.
by inferene anyone who disagrees with you is a racist with a chip on their shoulder.ViperPict said:
I look to the future of a free and prosperous Scotland and have no contempt for England and the English (Westminster, a different story...). All the mildly racist stuff on here is anti-Scots from the English (numerous examples already on this thread).
ViperPict said:
It is the ignorant views that have been exemplified by some folk here that only fuel the independence cause (Edinburgh built on OUR empire, i.e., the 'English' empire).
Our as in british Empire- as in scots, welsh and english. If you want to deny your heritage then go ahead, but i can't help but think you are proud of your heritage- at least thats what you keep telling us. ViperPict said:
We wouldn't need a large Navy but we would still need one. Using the model of Denmark, even with our fair share of current Navy vessels, we'd be well under-provided. The required ships would be built in Scotland.
Why Denmark? It's geography puts it in a very different situation to Scotland. Ireland is probably a better comparison.scenario8 said:
thinfourth2 said:
There are very few matters which effect England only and where there are matters which effect England only i'd happily see Scottish MPs barred from voting on them.
Many in England would have settled for "Scottish MPs barred from proposing and implementing them" between 1997-2010.I'll remind you ENGLAND only
As everyone in the UK suffered from the effects of the laws that the labour retards brought in while they were in power
ViperPict said:
How many current Navy ships are being built and how many in the future? Scotland will need built many more than will be commissioned by Westminster under the status quo over the next 20 years or so.
Two aircraft carriers, a couple of destroyers and thirteen frigates.How much of that do you reckon Scotland needs / could afford? Would you prefer Scotstoun or Rosyth to close?
PugwasHDJ80 said:
ViperPict said:
This is a very accurate account of the situation...
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/edwest/100128764...
And in the Torygraph too!
nope, no hcip on your shoulder...http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/edwest/100128764...
And in the Torygraph too!
ViperPict said:
The so called Scots anti-independence
so called by who? you? i'm not anti scots, or anti independance- i'm just pro unity- beleive people are stronger together than divided.ViperPict said:
on here are really not representative - PH has a VERY skewed demography! But it's the opinion in 1000 days that counts and the tide is only heading in one direction
Conjecture at the moment- only a referendum will tell youViperPict said:
You'll find from my posts that nothing I say is anti-English and there is no chip on my shoulder.
by inferene anyone who disagrees with you is a racist with a chip on their shoulder.ViperPict said:
I look to the future of a free and prosperous Scotland and have no contempt for England and the English (Westminster, a different story...). All the mildly racist stuff on here is anti-Scots from the English (numerous examples already on this thread).
ViperPict said:
It is the ignorant views that have been exemplified by some folk here that only fuel the independence cause (Edinburgh built on OUR empire, i.e., the 'English' empire).
Our as in british Empire- as in scots, welsh and english. If you want to deny your heritage then go ahead, but i can't help but think you are proud of your heritage- at least thats what you keep telling us. How is posting a link to the TELEGRAPH me having a chip on my shoulder?! I specifically did that so the views couldn't be construed that of a 'wingeing Jock' etc!!!!
I have never claimed anyone who is pro-Union as anti-Scots! This is in itself domonstrating your chip on your shoulder. Jumping to huge conclusions!! I see Scots who are Unionist as verging on the traitorous but that is a different matter...
And the reference to the 'English empire' was in direct response to someone who clearly believes that's what the British Empire was!
Your post is FULL of paranoia - I clearly never said that Northumbria should be Scottish because 'we're better'!! It's because I sympathise with that part of the country as they have been vert hard done by the Tories in the past (as I clearly stated)
IrateNinja said:
ViperPict said:
How many current Navy ships are being built and how many in the future? Scotland will need built many more than will be commissioned by Westminster under the status quo over the next 20 years or so.
Two aircraft carriers, a couple of destroyers and thirteen frigates.How much of that do you reckon Scotland needs / could afford? Would you prefer Scotstoun or Rosyth to close?
MX7 said:
ViperPict said:
We wouldn't need a large Navy but we would still need one. Using the model of Denmark, even with our fair share of current Navy vessels, we'd be well under-provided. The required ships would be built in Scotland.
Why Denmark? It's geography puts it in a very different situation to Scotland. Ireland is probably a better comparison.ViperPict said:
Caulkhead said:
We really are getting ahead of ourselves with this question. Firstly there seems to be little chance of a successful yes vote for 'independence' being likely before the end of 2014, hence all the SNP squirming when Cameron tries to set some boundaries. Unless the world economy changes hugely for the better in the next two years, the canny scots are never going to risk it on purely financial terms. Secondly, if Scotland ever does get to the point where they are in a position to change their dependence from Westminster to Brussels, the SNP seem to be under the misapprehension that Scotland will be able to pick and choose how it's done and set the rules. Nothing will be further from the truth as Cameron's warning shots demonstrate. Westminster will use all its resources to ensure Scotland gets the worst deal possible and has already made it clear that it will have to be an in or out decision, not a cherry-picking exercise for the Scots to keep the bits of the union they like such HM the Q and the Pound.
Personally, as someone with Scottish family, I'm in favour of Scottish 'independence', but to consider it within the next five years would be madness given the current economic situation and to expect to dictate the terms of any separation, absolute delusion.
For 'SNP squirming' read 'sticking hard to their guns' while Scameron stamps his feet in his wee blue booties... Personally, as someone with Scottish family, I'm in favour of Scottish 'independence', but to consider it within the next five years would be madness given the current economic situation and to expect to dictate the terms of any separation, absolute delusion.
But the 'current economic climate' argument is one I would use for independnce! Osbourne's strategy of 'recovery' is a f
king joke - let's get out before he sinks the ship. The one fact you can rely on in all this is that if separation comes, it will be complete and favour the remainder of the UK.
MX7 said:
Guam said:
They arent part of the Union though, they are members of the commonwealth, so its a moot point.
As I said, there are differences.So what happens if Scotland holds a referendum, has 100% turnout, 3,800,000, all voting 'Yes'. England has a much lower turnout by percent, but 3,800,001 vote 'No'. I'm sure that Syria would be delighted to have some of the attention taken away from them!
I am currently a Scot living in Scotland. If I were English I would be very keen to be shot of Scotland, the only downside being that you don't want an unstable country on your doorstep. It is difficult to know how things will pan out, but my clear impression is that the SNP will 'win' the referendum, and therefore I am making plans to move south or even further afield. I assume that others are doing likewise, leaving the handout junkies and the political cronies behind to form the core of this brave new nation.
cardigankid said:
I am currently a Scot living in Scotland. If I were English I would be very keen to be shot of Scotland, the only downside being that you don't want an unstable country on your doorstep. It is difficult to know how things will pan out, but my clear impression is that the SNP will 'win' the referendum, and therefore I am making plans to move south or even further afield. I assume that others are doing likewise, leaving the handout junkies and the political cronies behind to form the core of this brave new nation.
Why is it unhappy? Has it always been that way or is it just Dear Leader and crew telling people they're hard done to? Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff