Julian Assange loses extradition appeal at Supreme Court
Discussion
samwilliams said:
Finlandia said:
Why shouldn't they, as the country that has become synonymous with security, humanity and democracy? Also you are forgetting that Sweden is "neutral", UK isn't.
To me it would seem like a strange step to say "we have reason to believe you may be a rapist and want to talk to you about that, but we promise to protect you in a way we would never protect anybody else".I don't get your neutral point though. I'm quite possibly missing something but, as you say the UK is not neutral, surely that would make extradition to the US from the UK easier (which, as it happens, it probably is).
Sweden makes a big fuss about being neutral and not having been at war since 1809, and as a neutral country they have clearly stated not to cooperate or be bullied by any of the blocks (Nato etc), to then allow CIA ops in the country is a very strange move.
Finlandia said:
Sweden makes a big fuss about being neutral and not having been at war since 1809, and as a neutral country they have clearly stated not to cooperate or be bullied by any of the blocks (Nato etc), to then allow CIA ops in the country is a very strange move.
The religion of economic/political/financial convenience.China would get criticised a lot more for its human rights record if it was not so "strong". No?
XCP said:
Finlandia said:
Why haven't the Swedish authorities granted his request to not be handed over to US then? Why have CIA operations been carried out in Sweden before?
The question was why would the Swedes bother with one alleged rapist when there are ( apparently) numerous others on the loose. What happens to him subsequently has nothing to do with that question. The obvious answer being that you pick the easy fruit first. To be honest this is not far removed from people shouting 'why don't you catch some real criminals' when the police do something they don't agree with. A few days ago I heard about a rape attempt on the radio, the girl reported the attempt which took place in her own home, and gave a good description of the accused and a few names to go on. A week went by and nothing from the police, so her father started snooping around and found out who the accused was, and called the police again, he was questioned where he had gotten the information from and told to stop snooping around or he could face charges.
A few days after the girl received a letter from the police stating that the case had been dropped, the same day it was reported!
She went to media and it transpires that not one question had been asked by the police, the case was dropped dead without any action at all. Now, thanks to the media, the accused has been convicted and sentenced to ten months in jail.
If the justice system cannot be bothered to ask a few questions to solve a rape, where the accused is living in the same town as the victim, then why are they so adamant to chase a case where the accused is not even in the country?
Or could it all be political?
Mermaid said:
The religion of economic/political/financial convenience.
China would get criticised a lot more for its human rights record if it was not so "strong". No?
Plenty of people and organisations lament China's human rights record, but I take your point that it would get more mainstream coverage if China were not such an economic powerhouse.China would get criticised a lot more for its human rights record if it was not so "strong". No?
Finlandia said:
No stranger than not deporting serial offenders to any country where they would risk torture or death.
And Assange will already be protected by that, and would not be extradited to the US (from either Sweden or the UK - the situation here would be the same for both) if the courts believed he would be subject to "torture, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment".Isn't that enough, or does he (an alleged rapist) want special treatment?
samwilliams said:
And Assange will already be protected by that, and would not be extradited to the US (from either Sweden or the UK - the situation here would be the same for both) if the courts believed he would be subject to "torture, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment".
Isn't that enough, or does he (an alleged rapist) want special treatment?
These protections mean little when considered against the history of rendition in the UK and Sweden.Isn't that enough, or does he (an alleged rapist) want special treatment?
samwilliams said:
Finlandia said:
No stranger than not deporting serial offenders to any country where they would risk torture or death.
And Assange will already be protected by that, and would not be extradited to the US (from either Sweden or the UK - the situation here would be the same for both) if the courts believed he would be subject to "torture, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment".samwilliams said:
Finlandia said:
That's the problem though, he would get sent off from Sweden, or "disappear", just like others have done before him.
If they really just wanted him to disappear, surely that would have happened by now? Why bother with all the hassle of extraditing him to Sweden first?
samwilliams said:
And Assange will already be protected by that, and would not be extradited to the US (from either Sweden or the UK - the situation here would be the same for both) if the courts believed he would be subject to "torture, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment".
Isn't that enough, or does he (an alleged rapist) want special treatment?
Oh he wants special treatment all right. I am sure he believes he is a cut above your 'average' rapist. Isn't that enough, or does he (an alleged rapist) want special treatment?
XCP said:
Oh he wants special treatment all right. I am sure he believes he is a cut above your 'average' rapist.
He's a RAPIST???????
f
k me i didnt realise that. Well he shoot be be dragged out of the embassy hung drawn and quartered then. WHos bringing the pitchfork lets go get the evil rapist!!!!!
He HAS NOT BEEN CHARGED!!
He has been accused of rape. Two very different things.
The simple issue at hand here is that he has been "accused" of rape in a country where a split condom constitutes a rape claim and was one of the "rape" claims against him.
A split condom ok. Think about that for a moment....
You really think anyone should face criminal charges for a condom failing during sex????
Also yet again.
He has OFFERED to go to sweden to face his accusers providing he is guaranteed immunity fro extradition to the united states who HAVE laid papers for his extradition in secret with the us courts.
He has OFFERED to answer any of the swedish authorities questions on British soil yet they flatly declined his offer.
I flatly do not support rapists but nor do I support any move to extradite someone to a foreign country through sneaky political moves.
Us gov members have openly stated Assange should be shot others have stated they will do whatever it takes to get him on US soil to make him pay for releasing the secret files.
TallbutBuxomly said:
The simple issue at hand here is that he has been "accused" of rape in a country where a split condom constitutes a rape claim and was one of the "rape" claims against him.
A split condom ok. Think about that for a moment....
You really think anyone should face criminal charges for a condom failing during sex????
To be fair, that's a very misleading way of putting it. As far as I am aware (it is certainly the case for many countries, but not sure if it differs under a European Arrest Warrant), he cannot be extradited unless what he did would constitute an offence in the UK.A split condom ok. Think about that for a moment....
You really think anyone should face criminal charges for a condom failing during sex????
Having sex with someone while they're asleep is considered rape in the UK.
Julian Assange is accused of having sex with someone while they're asleep.
You can focus on the split condom all you like, but that would be completely missing the point.
TallbutBuxomly said:
He has OFFERED to go to sweden to face his accusers providing he is guaranteed immunity fro extradition to the united states who HAVE laid papers for his extradition in secret with the us courts.
You keep on mentioning this. Where's the evidence for it? (not saying there isn't some, but I'm not aware of it)If he is accused of having sex with someone while asleep and there is sufficient proof to make a case for charges then it should be so.
However my problem is everyone is making out as if he actually committed the crimes he is at this point merely accused of.
Two further issues.
1: If one of the charges is rape due to a condom splitting then quite frankly I dont see how he could have any case to answer.
2: If he has been accused of having sex with someone whilst they were asleep I cannot see how anyone could realistically say he did or not. Yes the woman can claim he did so but there is no way to prove he did or didn't or that it wasn't consensual.
I am no expert but to me this sort of situation seems a very murky grounds to me. It seems to me to come down to a he said she said situation which is very shaky ground for putting someone in jail.
Also it occurs to me could anyone be that heavy a sleeper that he was able to have sex with her whilst she was asleep and she didn't wake up??
However my problem is everyone is making out as if he actually committed the crimes he is at this point merely accused of.
Two further issues.
1: If one of the charges is rape due to a condom splitting then quite frankly I dont see how he could have any case to answer.
2: If he has been accused of having sex with someone whilst they were asleep I cannot see how anyone could realistically say he did or not. Yes the woman can claim he did so but there is no way to prove he did or didn't or that it wasn't consensual.
I am no expert but to me this sort of situation seems a very murky grounds to me. It seems to me to come down to a he said she said situation which is very shaky ground for putting someone in jail.
Also it occurs to me could anyone be that heavy a sleeper that he was able to have sex with her whilst she was asleep and she didn't wake up??
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