Give us a fracking break!

[Mr Whippy]

hidetheelephants said:

Mojocvh said:

Guam said:

The flaming water thing was proven to be bks years ago its so busted I cant be arsed to go over it again on here. A small amount of googling is all it takes to find it.

Good.

Have a watch of FrackNation; it counters all the main points of the 'Gasland' documentary which brought the 'flaming taps' phenomena to public notice and identifies what it all means. It's biased in the opposite direction but less flagrantly and without the egregious fabrication, and makes the director of 'Gasland' look like a tool and a mountebank.

JimPetrol said:

Mr Whippy said:

So does fracking give a risk of more earthquakes? Or earthquakes at all?

No and no.

It can cause shifting along faults in the strata underground, which causes the earth to shake, much like it does when a quarry carries out blasting operations and shifts 100k tonnes of rock; neither is an earthquake, but might cause 'alarm and despondency' in stupid people and possibly cause ugly ceramic ornaments to leap off mantlepieces and break.

I'm just thinking of insurance liabilities that's all.

Cheers

Dave

[AdeTuono]

Mojocvh said:

The fact that, despite the governments "blah", the equipment needed to frack is sourced outwith the EU and therefore subject to EU import approval and sanctions seems to have missed a lot of the "informed" posters on here.

You do realise that the O&G industry in the UK has an infrastructure going back several decades, don't you? Fracking, and the equipment needed to carry it out, is nothing new, despite what you may have been led to believe.

But maybe I'm not as 'informed' as you so obviously are.

[Ozzie Osmond]

AdeTuono said:

Fracking, and the equipment needed to carry it out, is nothing new, despite what you may have been led to believe.

"Since the early 2000s, advances in drilling and completion technology have made drilling horizontal wellbores much more economical. Horizontal wellbores allow for far greater exposure to a formation than a conventional vertical wellbore. This is particularly useful in shale formations which do not have sufficient permeability to produce economically with a vertical well. Such wells when drilled onshore are now usually hydraulically fractured in a number of stages, especially in North America." Wikipedia

[AdeTuono]

Ozzie Osmond said:

AdeTuono said:

Fracking, and the equipment needed to carry it out, is nothing new, despite what you may have been led to believe.

"Since the early 2000s, advances in drilling and completion technology have made drilling horizontal wellbores much more economical. Horizontal wellbores allow for far greater exposure to a formation than a conventional vertical wellbore. This is particularly useful in shale formations which do not have sufficient permeability to produce economically with a vertical well. Such wells when drilled onshore are now usually hydraulically fractured in a number of stages, especially in North America." Wikipedia

And your point being....?

[Ozzie Osmond]

AdeTuono said:

And your point being....?

That there are many things which were first discovered/invented a long time ago, like twin-clutch gearboxes or fracking, but for which the technology to exploit effectively takes many decades to develop. Shale gas from fracking is pretty recent.

[AdeTuono]

Ozzie Osmond said:

AdeTuono said:

And your point being....?

That there are many things which were first discovered/invented a long time ago, like twin-clutch gearboxes or fracking, but for which the technology to exploit effectively takes many decades to develop. Shale gas from fracking is pretty recent.

The fracking operation has barely changed. What's changed are the advances in directional drilling to allow exploitation of shale gas. And, certainly in UK land ops, there have been no appreciable advances in the last 15-odd years since the world's longest ERD directionally drilled well was completed at Wytch Farm.

But my original point was directed at the poster who stated that 'the equipment needed to frack is sourced outwith the EU and therefore subject to EU import approval and sanctions', which isn't the case.

[hidetheelephants]

AdeTuono said:

Ozzie Osmond said:

AdeTuono said:

And your point being....?

That there are many things which were first discovered/invented a long time ago, like twin-clutch gearboxes or fracking, but for which the technology to exploit effectively takes many decades to develop. Shale gas from fracking is pretty recent.

The fracking operation has barely changed. What's changed are the advances in directional drilling to allow exploitation of shale gas. And, certainly in UK land ops, there have been no appreciable advances in the last 15-odd years since the world's longest ERD directionally drilled well was completed at Wytch Farm.

But my original point was directed at the poster who stated that 'the equipment needed to frack is sourced outwith the EU and therefore subject to EU import approval and sanctions', which isn't the case.

Even if it was, a drill rig isn't a fighter plane, it's just another piece of industrial equipment; why would there be any restriction on its import?

[anonymous-user]

andymadmak said:

Is the Governments decision this week to grant a tax break to firms involved in the development of shale gas extraction in the UK a good thing? Or is it a dark Tory plot to ruin the environment whilst further enriching greedy billionaires and their chums in the city?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-23368505

It will enrich those with ambition and the balls to put their head on the block investing (or greedy billionaires as they are called by the envious, when their hard work pays off)

[Mr Whippy]

Jimboka said:

andymadmak said:

Is the Governments decision this week to grant a tax break to firms involved in the development of shale gas extraction in the UK a good thing? Or is it a dark Tory plot to ruin the environment whilst further enriching greedy billionaires and their chums in the city?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-23368505

It will enrich those with ambition and the balls to put their head on the block investing (or greedy billionaires as they are called by the envious, when their hard work pays off)

Their hard work pays off?

Even in the most extreme capitalist economy the fruits of the rich mans labours are the result of the efforts of the society at a whole still.

Who buys their shale gas? Who pays for their subsidy?


I don't have a problem with it, that is the beauty of capitalism, but I have a problem with the absence of appreciation that they can't exist as billionaires in a vacuum through their 'hard work'

Dave

[turbobloke]

Mr Whippy said:

Who pays for their subsidy?

It's somewhat perverse to see reduced taxation as a subsidy.

For energy sector subsidies, see wind power.

[mondeoman]

turbobloke said:

Mr Whippy said:

Who pays for their subsidy?

It's somewhat perverse to see reduced taxation as a subsidy.

For energy sector subsidies, see wind power.

You beat me to it. Very odd mind set there.

[Pesty]

Headline on tomorrow's mail front page

DOOMSDAY

fracking to cause earthquakes and flames on your drive.

wkers


Doomsday alert over fracking as minister warns of rectory walls quaking across Middle England if drilling continues
MP admits countryside dwellers will be affected by controversial process
Michael Fallon is a keen proponent of fracking
But he admits that Tory voters may be hit by quakes and gas burning
He made the comments in a private meeting


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2384191/Do...
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

Edited by Pesty on Sunday 4th August 00:55

[Ozzie Osmond]

Pesty said:

franking to cause earthquakes and flames on your drive.

??????????

Is this some kind of post office thread?

[McWigglebum4th]

We're doomed

The muppets in government are going to save us and ban fracking as to allow it to continue will cost votes in the up coming election.

The election after that when we have no electricity isn't an priority

[jmorgan]

Its going to happen, just wish I had some confidence the UK will see a real benefit. They are bound to cock it up. My bills will still go up and someone will benefit who does not need to.

[Mr Whippy]

turbobloke said:

Mr Whippy said:

Who pays for their subsidy?

It's somewhat perverse to see reduced taxation as a subsidy.

For energy sector subsidies, see wind power.

It's still a distorting incentive though isn't it?


Should they invest in X or Y, well X attracts a tax incentive, well I'll invest in X then. Oooo they made/lost more money than they would otherwise have done.

Gosh they worked hard for their wealth didn't they... having society take the edge off the risk for them.

Dave

[Mojocvh]

jmorgan said:

Its going to happen, just wish I had some confidence the UK will see a real benefit. They are bound to cock it up. My bills will still go up and someone will benefit who does not need to.

I sincerely hope that this isn't the case. But I'm not holding my breath.

[turbobloke]

Mr Whippy said:

turbobloke said:

Mr Whippy said:

Who pays for their subsidy?

It's somewhat perverse to see reduced taxation as a subsidy.

For energy sector subsidies, see wind power.

It's still a distorting incentive though isn't it?

Compared to being given taxpayers' money for not producing energy it's barely on the radar.

[mondeoman]

Mr Whippy said:

turbobloke said:

Mr Whippy said:

Who pays for their subsidy?

It's somewhat perverse to see reduced taxation as a subsidy.

For energy sector subsidies, see wind power.

It's still a distorting incentive though isn't it?


Should they invest in X or Y, well X attracts a tax incentive, well I'll invest in X then. Oooo they made/lost more money than they would otherwise have done.

Gosh they worked hard for their wealth didn't they... having society take the edge off the risk for them.

Dave

Riiiiggghhhtt.

Who, exactly, "took the edge off" and by how much, I want names and numbers.

Remember that its OUR money, tax is just legalised theft, its not now and never had been the Government's money. The Government doesn't generate any income to give away, and as a member of the population I'm more than happy for minimal tax on investments that might help us as a country and hats off to anyone who can capitalise on it. If I had a few thou spare to invest I'd be scrambling to find a way to do it. As as country we'll benefit, and individually there is no reason why you shouldn't invest. It might all go wrong, and if so thats my loss, I'd certainly not be looking for my money back. My risk, my reward.

[turbobloke]

The energy playing field isn't just not level right now, the slope is nearly vertical.

Any tax incentive in that context is simply levelling the playing field by a few degrees and whatever it is won't be nearly enough.