Guns Everywhere

[rpguk]

Pesty said:

Not sure if it's a good idea or not

However more food for thought. Concealed carry legally in Chicago has been going a year. Crime is down.

I can't say the last two weekends of gun violence in Chicago have filled me with confidence tbh

43 Shot, 5 Killed this weekend

40 shot, 8 Killed last weekend

Give me London gun crime any day over that!

[Colonial]

longblackcoat said:

Yes, in that an alarm/pepper spray are entirely defensive. And, rather obviously, that they can't kill people.

At the same time, if I was working with a woman who felt it necessary to openly display a rape alarm when I was in the room I'd surmise that she felt somewhat threatened in her office. Worrying if she really felt this way with her colleagues.

Were you wearing a long black coat?

[Clivey]

Colonial said:

Were you wearing a long black coat?

[longblackcoat]

Colonial said:

longblackcoat said:

Yes, in that an alarm/pepper spray are entirely defensive. And, rather obviously, that they can't kill people.

At the same time, if I was working with a woman who felt it necessary to openly display a rape alarm when I was in the room I'd surmise that she felt somewhat threatened in her office. Worrying if she really felt this way with her colleagues.

Were you wearing a long black coat?

Ah, now I understand her nervousness.........

[Rovinghawk]

redtwin said:

The Bunny would only be good for Bolognese after being hit by one of those rounds.

[Hicks] It's the only way to be sure[/Hicks]

[Jimbeaux]

Gaspode said:

Jimbeaux said:

So, if you said black men in their 20s you'd be racist. But the white guy thing is OK, huh??

I think the possibly 'racist' aspect of the story is the least of it. The idea that people find it necessary to carry weapons with them even when they go to work in an office is deeply sad.

Sure, but back to throwing around "white men in their 50s". That may simply be a fact; however, if I point out that black men in their 20s carry more guns and account for the majority of gun violence here despite their disproportionatly smaller population, which is also a fact, people quickly forget the topic of the thread/post and go all PC on me. So which is it going to be? Are we going to single out demographics that represent facts or are we not? If we are, it has to go both ways.

[Jimbeaux]

longblackcoat said:

Gaspode said:

Jimbeaux said:

So, if you said black men in their 20s you'd be racist. But the white guy thing is OK, huh??

I think the possibly 'racist' aspect of the story is the least of it. The idea that people find it necessary to carry weapons with them even when they go to work in an office is deeply sad.

Yes, I was surprised that Jimbeaux thought the rest of it was fine and just commented on the colour of the gun-carriers!

I made reference to the fact that it was white men in their 50s who were carrying guns as this chimes with the leadership of the NRA.

Of the 76 (I think) people in NRA leadership positions - essentially Board members, though Chuck Norris (yes, honestly!) is not a Board member but nevertheless an official celebrity spokesperson - there are only a few women. I can't see any black faces. And the men are - just like the people I saw in our office in Raleigh - predominately in their 50s.

Jimbeaux, point out the racism in my post, if you'd be so kind. And when you realise that there is none, I'll happily accept an apology.

Explain why you felt compelled to single out white men in their 50s to make a point about peole carrying guns. The Sheriff of Milwaukee County Sheriff, David A. Clarke, Jr., a black man, is an avid spokesman of the NRA. Must I go and find all representative race and age demographics of the NRA to educate you? You were trying to state a fact but singled out one part of the NRA.

[Jimbeaux]

Jasandjules said:

I saw a TV show yesterday, Sons of Guns I think it was called. Lots of people played with lots of guns and shot at things and all sorts. No-one died though. Can't work out how not.

That show is filmed near me; drop by and I will take you to the set. Nice folks.

[Jimbeaux]

longblackcoat said:

stihl the chainsaw stays at home.

OK, regardless of disagreements, that was a good one right there.

[longblackcoat]

Jimbeaux said:

longblackcoat said:

Gaspode said:

Jimbeaux said:

So, if you said black men in their 20s you'd be racist. But the white guy thing is OK, huh??

I think the possibly 'racist' aspect of the story is the least of it. The idea that people find it necessary to carry weapons with them even when they go to work in an office is deeply sad.

Yes, I was surprised that Jimbeaux thought the rest of it was fine and just commented on the colour of the gun-carriers!

I made reference to the fact that it was white men in their 50s who were carrying guns as this chimes with the leadership of the NRA.

Of the 76 (I think) people in NRA leadership positions - essentially Board members, though Chuck Norris (yes, honestly!) is not a Board member but nevertheless an official celebrity spokesperson - there are only a few women. I can't see any black faces. And the men are - just like the people I saw in our office in Raleigh - predominately in their 50s.

Jimbeaux, point out the racism in my post, if you'd be so kind. And when you realise that there is none, I'll happily accept an apology.

Explain why you felt compelled to single out white men in their 50s to make a point about peole carrying guns. The Sheriff of Milwaukee County Sheriff, David A. Clarke, Jr., a black man, is an avid spokesman of the NRA. Must I go and find all representative race and age demographics of the NRA to educate you? You were trying to state a fact but singled out one part of the NRA.

Look at the board composition of the NRA.

Middle aged white men.

The people I saw in my office wearing guns.

Middle aged white men.

I don't disagree that people of all races and colours possess guns, nor am I stating that the NRA bars people of any ethnicity or gender from joining. What I am saying is that the NRA leadership (startlingly white) is reflected in the general makeup of their members, at least as I've observed it.

If I'd seen mainly young black women with guns in the office I'd have commented on that, and if there'd been a normal black/white male/female split then I'd not have commented on that. But I saw one gender, one colour, one age range - which seems to mirror almost exactly the NRA leadership.

Edited to say: sorry if I came across a bit grumpy earlier. Not a great day.

Edited by longblackcoat on Monday 28th April 16:47

[Matt Harper]

I'm curious to understand what kind of business even allows it's employees to open-carry on their premises - is it some kind of security organization?
As far as I'm aware, open-carry is not legal in NC, so it would be a case of concealed until you got inside the premises and then whip it out like Wyatt Earp, once you get past reception.
As stated, there are a LOT of restrictions regarding where you can concealed carry (I have a Concealed Weapon Permit and carry routinely) - banks, government buildings, schools, bars not serving food - aside from the "places of nuisance", are all off-limits and the penalties for transgression are very serious. The reasons why people choose to arm themselves are quite extensive and probably not limited to 'compensating' for anything. For a lot of us, it's like having insurance - just in case the unforeseen or highly unpleasant, or genuinely life-threatening should occur.
Although I don't work from there very often at all, I am not permitted to enter my company premises with any kind of weapon - concealed or otherwise and I totally respect that rule.

[Pesty]

some business encourage it because it deters people from robbing them so I have read.


do you rob the shop where everybody is armed or do you rob the shop where they may not be.

doesn't bother me. don't see why it wouldn't bother anybody unless you irrationally think because somebody owns a gun they want to use on anything other than self defense.

rpguk said:

I can't say the last two weekends of gun violence in Chicago have filled me with confidence tbh

43 Shot, 5 Killed this weekend

40 shot, 8 Killed last weekend

Give me London gun crime any day over that!

Yes I read about that Would you like to wager on how many of those were legally owned T party types getting their gun off or respec issues at the projects?

[Matt Harper]

Pesty said:

some business encourage it because it deters people from robbing them so I have read.


do you rob the shop where everybody is armed or do you rob the shop where they may not be.

doesn't bother me. don't see why it wouldn't bother anybody unless you irrationally think because somebody owns a gun they want to use on anything other than self defense.

With very, very few exceptions and in but a few states, you can't open-carry in a place of business that is accessible to the public (like a shop). In FL you can't even open carry in a gun store.

[unrepentant]

Jimbeaux said:

Sure, but back to throwing around "white men in their 50s". That may simply be a fact; however, if I point out that black men in their 20s carry more guns and account for the majority of gun violence here despite their disproportionatly smaller population, which is also a fact, people quickly forget the topic of the thread/post and go all PC on me. So which is it going to be? Are we going to single out demographics that represent facts or are we not? If we are, it has to go both ways.

Not again FFS!

Black males acount for around half of all homicide offenders, whites for about 45%, hispanics and asians the rest. HOWEVER, when analysing any figures and generalising you have to also factor in that blacks disproportionatly (by a massive margin) live in poverty in the worst areas of most cities and are diproportionately the victimes of crime and victimization.

Conversely nearly all serial killers in the USA are white males.

As for the NRA membership consisting of "white males in their 50's" comment, we just had the NRA convention in Indianapolis last week. I think the analysis is unfair and should be extended to include old, usually fat and ugly, white women as well. In all the coverage of the convention I don't remember seeing any black faces, except amongst the protestors outside.

[NRS]

redtwin said:

"Hunting" rifles can be used to kill people and are far more effective (lethality) than pretty much every handgun ever produced. I don't see where ease of concealment makes any firearm more deadly.

FWIW handguns and Military style rifles are often used for hunting. I understand the point you are making, but if Hunting is to be accepted as the only legitimate use of any gun, then handguns and Military style rifles would qualify.

I understand rifles would be much much better for killing a human, however it's a bit more difficult to take your rifle and then go into the cinema to kill the person who annoyed you without having questions raised/ someone stopping you. I also understand the want to shoot at things for fun, but you can do that with having gun ranges that you rent a gun there/ have a gun that comes with the use of the range. I may get a gun licence here (Norway) but you have to learn with birds first, so the theory test involves a lot of learning names of the birds and animals first. As far as I'm aware you can only get rifles (but not certain on that) and think the armed crime rate is very low.

[croyde]

I used to get involved in these debates and would pretty much be in the 'We don't need guns camp' but these talks peaked my interest and having only used rifles when I was a kid in the ATC back in the 70s, I wanted to try again.

I went to a local rifle club near me for a try out day, found the folks there friendly and helpful, enjoyed myself, did well and errr had fun. I don't want to kill anyone but I am crap at football but ok at hitting a tiny target with a rifle and wasn't too bad at hitting a larger target with a black powder pistol.

I like cars/motorbikes and can bore people to death talking about them and I have found that with guns, I am the same. It's a bit of engineering that fascinates me and I like knowing how whatever I am using works.

Unfortunately I have not had time to join a club and having moved to a rental flat, I no longer have a garden for plinking with my BSA Air Rifle, my Sig Sauer P226 BB firing pistol or my Yunker 4 (AK74 modified to fire 4.5mm BBs and weirdly legal here but not in the US).

See what joining in on gun debates has done to me

[Jimbeaux]

unrepentant said:

Jimbeaux said:

Sure, but back to throwing around "white men in their 50s". That may simply be a fact; however, if I point out that black men in their 20s carry more guns and account for the majority of gun violence here despite their disproportionatly smaller population, which is also a fact, people quickly forget the topic of the thread/post and go all PC on me. So which is it going to be? Are we going to single out demographics that represent facts or are we not? If we are, it has to go both ways.

Not again FFS!

Black males acount for around half of all homicide offenders, whites for about 45%, hispanics and asians the rest. HOWEVER, when analysing any figures and generalising you have to also factor in that blacks disproportionatly (by a massive margin) live in poverty in the worst areas of most cities and are diproportionately the victimes of crime and victimization.

Conversely nearly all serial killers in the USA are white males.

As for the NRA membership consisting of "white males in their 50's" comment, we just had the NRA convention in Indianapolis last week. I think the analysis is unfair and should be extended to include old, usually fat and ugly, white women as well. In all the coverage of the convention I don't remember seeing any black faces, except amongst the protestors outside.

Always dependable!

[longblackcoat]

croyde said:

I like cars/motorbikes and can bore people to death talking about them and I have found that with guns, I am the same. It's a bit of engineering that fascinates me and I like knowing how whatever I am using works.

Unfortunately I have not had time to join a club and having moved to a rental flat, I no longer have a garden for plinking with my BSA Air Rifle, my Sig Sauer P226 BB firing pistol or my Yunker 4 (AK74 modified to fire 4.5mm BBs and weirdly legal here but not in the US).

I'm the same, hence my cabinet contains 5 shotguns, 2 air rifles, and a P226 like yours! But I see my small collection as a pastime and nothing more, and I simply can't conceive of the time when I'd ever have to use any of them for anything other than sport.

Anyway, the moral of the story is the the Brits don't understand the Americans and vice versa. Plus ca change.

[croyde]

longblackcoat said:

Anyway, the moral of the story is the the Brits don't understand the Americans and vice versa. Plus ca change.

Good point. I work in telly and have covered big football matches. Now it has to be appreciated that Sky has transformed the coverage of football and on a top premiership match, will have 30 cameras on it. The talkback during a match is pretty laid back as everyone knows what they are doing but listen to American talkback on their football games and it's as if they are invading somewhere. Screaming, shouting etc Lots of big words and gruff voices.

I have worked with Brit and American crews on live music and it's exactly the same.

I used to work on little live corporate events. 2 or 3 people chatting for an hour accessed by the workers on their laptops. Webcasts they were called. One day we did one with a US crew but my English director stayed on as an advisor.

The screaming and shouting started with numerous people counting down to live. I turned to my English director and said "Blimey! It's like the launching of the shuttle."

To which he replied "And we know how that turned out, don't we."

Sorry JimBeaux

[Jimbeaux]

croyde said:

longblackcoat said:

Anyway, the moral of the story is the the Brits don't understand the Americans and vice versa. Plus ca change.

Good point. I work in telly and have covered big football matches. Now it has to be appreciated that Sky has transformed the coverage of football and on a top premiership match, will have 30 cameras on it. The talkback during a match is pretty laid back as everyone knows what they are doing but listen to American talkback on their football games and it's as if they are invading somewhere. Screaming, shouting etc Lots of big words and gruff voices.

I have worked with Brit and American crews on live music and it's exactly the same.

I used to work on little live corporate events. 2 or 3 people chatting for an hour accessed by the workers on their laptops. Webcasts they were called. One day we did one with a US crew but my English director stayed on as an advisor.

The screaming and shouting started with numerous people counting down to live. I turned to my English director and said "Blimey! It's like the launching of the shuttle."

To which he replied "And we know how that turned out, don't we."

Sorry JimBeaux

We balance that out by being calm on the radio during emergencies.