Is Britain Full?
Discussion
PorkInsider said:
Not sure if I'm getting the wrong end of the stick here but while it might seem more sensible to build new towns in the north where there's more undeveloped space but the infrastructure is completely woeful up here, too.
I guess I was just thinking of "lack of physical space and poor infrastructure" vs "just poor infrastructure". If this was the right way to go then surely building new towns outside of the south east, with the required improvements in infrastructure, is more sensible that in the crowded south east where there is no room to improve the infrastructure.Evanivitch said:
Your comprehension skills are somewhat lacking.
I don't think anyone should feel guilty, but logically you (and I) are guilty of having too many bedrooms (I iron in one of mine. Literally just iron).
Now go back and read my subsequent post about the culture shift that is required across a variety of areas that would address this.
And left? Oh dear, are you lost?
Well if I've misunderstood your post then I apologise, but it seems I'm not alone. And this post does nothing to change my view. Maybe it's just the language you use that irks a little.I don't think anyone should feel guilty, but logically you (and I) are guilty of having too many bedrooms (I iron in one of mine. Literally just iron).
Now go back and read my subsequent post about the culture shift that is required across a variety of areas that would address this.
And left? Oh dear, are you lost?
I am not guilty of anything. No guilt at all in owning a home whereby my parents can come and stay in the spare room. Or where I can keep my iron if I so wish.
And no culture shift is needed either. People work hard, invest in property and enjoy the fruits of their labour. Guilt free. Suggesting we need to downsize/change our priorities/feel any kind of guilt is just wrong imho. What we need is a culture shift in government to stop this being the land of milk and honey. We need to ask why people fleeing war zones will travel across a dozen safe countries and live for months in supposed squalor in calais in order to gain access to Britain.
I can hint at part of the reason our government has opened our doors to anyone and everyone. And part of that reason involves the word "guilt".
Where in NZ are you? My girlfriend and I are flying over for a month in December with a view to looking around and seeing if we like it enough to try living there - just waiting for the flights to become available before we book. My Dad has mates who moved to Christchurch in 2000/2001 so we'll be staying with them for part of the stay, but generally it'll be a good bit of driving around and getting a good look at the place. 
RobDickinson said:
Yeah Christchurch. Good place to live (apart from the earthquakes lol)
400k people enough for all your needs in a city but close to the outdoors.
Have you noticed any difference in tourism this year?400k people enough for all your needs in a city but close to the outdoors.
Mate of mine lives near Lake Taupo, and reckons they've had a massive increase in European visitors this summer. Like tenfold.
He puts some of it down to the change in wild camping rules, but also the bulk of them are talking about getting out of Europe for good.
These aren't just Brits, they're from all over, including some of the more Eastern European countries, well educated and affluent people too.
Might be an exaggeration of course, and might also be specific to his location, so I'm a little curious as to if it's any different in the South.
Is Britain full relative to the amount of infrastrucutre it currently has? Possibly.
Is Britain full relative to the amount of land it has? Definitely not.
....
The great myth of urban Britain
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18623096
three years old - but still relevant
There is plenty of space. Plenty of undeveloped land which could be used without having a negative impact on anyone. Our biggest problem is our obsession with preserving the green belt (most of which is nothing like most people think it is).
Is Britain full relative to the amount of land it has? Definitely not.
....
The great myth of urban Britain
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18623096
three years old - but still relevant
There is plenty of space. Plenty of undeveloped land which could be used without having a negative impact on anyone. Our biggest problem is our obsession with preserving the green belt (most of which is nothing like most people think it is).
"Btitain is full" is one of those bombastic and meaningless phrases that gets trotted out at the end of an argument to try to close down discussion. Usually means that the person deploying the phrase knows they haven't really managed to make their case.
I my time shuttling btwn Powys and Canary Wharf. The latter seems pretty f
king full compared to the former, and yet it works just fine and high rise housing continues to be thrown up at a hectic pace.
The question of course isn't whether Britain is full or not. Obviously it isn't physically full. What people are really asking is whether they like Britain as it is, and what changes they'd accept or welcome.
When it comes to migration, a better question might be "Is Britain full of selfish, fearful, unimaginative natives?".
I my time shuttling btwn Powys and Canary Wharf. The latter seems pretty f
king full compared to the former, and yet it works just fine and high rise housing continues to be thrown up at a hectic pace.The question of course isn't whether Britain is full or not. Obviously it isn't physically full. What people are really asking is whether they like Britain as it is, and what changes they'd accept or welcome.
When it comes to migration, a better question might be "Is Britain full of selfish, fearful, unimaginative natives?".
This factor alone - http://www.foodsecurity.ac.uk/issue/uk.html tells me we have too many people in this country let's hope we never get blockaded or our foreign food sources are cut off in the future, because 40% is a lot to try and make up by digging up every suitable piece of land not currently used (assuming we haven't already concreted over it).
ATG said:
"Btitain is full" is one of those bombastic and meaningless phrases that gets trotted out at the end of an argument to try to close down discussion. Usually means that the person deploying the phrase knows they haven't really managed to make their case.
I my time shuttling btwn Powys and Canary Wharf. The latter seems pretty fking full compared to the former, and yet it works just fine and high rise housing continues to be thrown up at a hectic pace.
The question of course isn't whether Britain is full or not. Obviously it isn't physically full. What people are really asking is whether they like Britain as it is, and what changes they'd accept or welcome.
When it comes to migration, a better question might be "Is Britain full of selfish, fearful, unimaginative natives?".
No its full of people who are very affected by change , then there are the wealthy and the wealthy leftys that are insulated from these negatives by money ...I my time shuttling btwn Powys and Canary Wharf. The latter seems pretty f
king full compared to the former, and yet it works just fine and high rise housing continues to be thrown up at a hectic pace.The question of course isn't whether Britain is full or not. Obviously it isn't physically full. What people are really asking is whether they like Britain as it is, and what changes they'd accept or welcome.
When it comes to migration, a better question might be "Is Britain full of selfish, fearful, unimaginative natives?".
rover 623gsi said:
There is plenty of space. Plenty of undeveloped land which could be used without having a negative impact on anyone. Our biggest problem is our obsession with preserving the green belt (most of which is nothing like most people think it is).
It doesn't work like that. You don't just build a town with everything people need in a perfectly contained little world. The roads are gridlocked, 15 minute commutes already take 1.5hrs, the trains have standing room only, the centralised specialist childrens & cancer hospitals are past capacity etc., you have to dump into existing sewers, use the already marginal water supplies, the very marginal electricity supplies, etc. etc. etc.And preserving an excess of green land is extremely important to the planet/climate and human health, mental and physical.
You can always cram more people into a country, but it won't be a quality of life worth living.
Do you really think all those Belgium and French immigrants living on top of each other in little boxes are happy? Is it any wonder these places breed disillusion and terrorism?
Axionknight said:
If it is taking someone 90 minutes to travel such a short commuting distance in a car my I respectfully suggest that they walk?
15 minutes at 30mph is 7 and a half miles; I wouldn't want to have to walk that twice a day everyday - it would extend my working day, which is already long enough, by about 5 hours.Einion Yrth said:
Axionknight said:
If it is taking someone 90 minutes to travel such a short commuting distance in a car my I respectfully suggest that they walk?
15 minutes at 30mph is 7 and a half miles; I wouldn't want to have to walk that twice a day everyday - it would extend my working day, which is already long enough, by about 5 hours.Axionknight said:
Einion Yrth said:
Axionknight said:
If it is taking someone 90 minutes to travel such a short commuting distance in a car my I respectfully suggest that they walk?
15 minutes at 30mph is 7 and a half miles; I wouldn't want to have to walk that twice a day everyday - it would extend my working day, which is already long enough, by about 5 hours.I suppose we're getting away from the big issue here so I'll leave it at this but to me when he says "the roads are gridlocked" it means you're sat still for most of a journey.
Could always become one of the devils spawn and buy a push bike?
As an aside my commute is about eight miles - I jog home twice a week, but I'm a fair weather runner tbh, none of this pitch black, howling wind and 0 degrees celcius nonsense for me
Could always become one of the devils spawn and buy a push bike?
As an aside my commute is about eight miles - I jog home twice a week, but I'm a fair weather runner tbh, none of this pitch black, howling wind and 0 degrees celcius nonsense for me
Axionknight said:
Einion Yrth said:
Axionknight said:
If it is taking someone 90 minutes to travel such a short commuting distance in a car my I respectfully suggest that they walk?
15 minutes at 30mph is 7 and a half miles; I wouldn't want to have to walk that twice a day everyday - it would extend my working day, which is already long enough, by about 5 hours.TfL figures suggest average speed of traffic on major roads in GTR London between 7am and 7am is a tad under 20mph. Presumably less than that at "rush hour". But if we take that 15 minutes commute at 20mph, then that is 5 miles. Would I want to walk that twice a day in all weathers, probably not, cycling is an option but then other issues arise. But if 5 miles is taking 1.5 hours, then some other alternative to driving would be definitely worth consideration.
Obviously, if the theoretical 15 minutes includes a decent amount bowling along a dual carriageway at 60/70, so the distance covered is greater, then that's another matter and for the particular poster to explain the detail.
Mr GrimNasty said:
It doesn't work like that. You don't just build a town with everything people need in a perfectly contained little world. The roads are gridlocked, 15 minute commutes already take 1.5hrs, the trains have standing room only, the centralised specialist childrens & cancer hospitals are past capacity etc., you have to dump into existing sewers, use the already marginal water supplies, the very marginal electricity supplies, etc. etc. etc.
And preserving an excess of green land is extremely important to the planet/climate and human health, mental and physical.
You can always cram more people into a country, but it won't be a quality of life worth living.
Do you really think all those Belgium and French immigrants living on top of each other in little boxes are happy? Is it any wonder these places breed disillusion and terrorism?
spoken like a true southernerAnd preserving an excess of green land is extremely important to the planet/climate and human health, mental and physical.
You can always cram more people into a country, but it won't be a quality of life worth living.
Do you really think all those Belgium and French immigrants living on top of each other in little boxes are happy? Is it any wonder these places breed disillusion and terrorism?
fortunately the roads are not gridlocked where I live
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