39 bodies found in Lorry : illegals ?
Discussion
Greendubber said:
TTmonkey said:
If the guy has had the trailer to thirty odd minutes, and has called the emergency services to alert them of this utter horrid disaster, arresting him for murder and STILL detaining him 15 hours later smacks of incompetent policing to me.
What happened to ‘helping police with their enquiries?’. Do they not do that anymore? Or is it ‘arrest him for murder so we can search for any other reason to do him’?
What grounds do they have of suspecting him of murder anyway if he didn’t bring the trailer accross the channel? When you arrest someone you have to have grounds to suspect them of the offence that you are arresting them for don’t you. I don’t see how anyone could think this driver is involved in people smuggling and subsequent murder of these people if the trailer was brought accross the channel by means other than him towing it, and they seem to already know that this isn’t the case. If he was a people smuggler he’d have left the scene not called the emergency services.
He’s going to be traumatised by finding these bodies, and traumatised by being arrested on suspicion of murder. It would seem he’s done nothing wrong and done exactly the right thing on discovering these bodies. And he gets treated as if he’s some kind of monster.
Or is it that they treat all lorry drivers as murderers and are just playing the odds here....?
No wonder people are reluctant to help the police in this country these days.
25 year old lorry driver, named in the press as a suspected murderer. What the fek must his family be going through.
Well fWhat happened to ‘helping police with their enquiries?’. Do they not do that anymore? Or is it ‘arrest him for murder so we can search for any other reason to do him’?
What grounds do they have of suspecting him of murder anyway if he didn’t bring the trailer accross the channel? When you arrest someone you have to have grounds to suspect them of the offence that you are arresting them for don’t you. I don’t see how anyone could think this driver is involved in people smuggling and subsequent murder of these people if the trailer was brought accross the channel by means other than him towing it, and they seem to already know that this isn’t the case. If he was a people smuggler he’d have left the scene not called the emergency services.
He’s going to be traumatised by finding these bodies, and traumatised by being arrested on suspicion of murder. It would seem he’s done nothing wrong and done exactly the right thing on discovering these bodies. And he gets treated as if he’s some kind of monster.
Or is it that they treat all lorry drivers as murderers and are just playing the odds here....?
No wonder people are reluctant to help the police in this country these days.
25 year old lorry driver, named in the press as a suspected murderer. What the fek must his family be going through.
k me Colombo has arrived. Quick, get yourself down there and tell them they're doing it all wrong!!!
JuanCarlosFandango said:
Appalling.
Would they need some pretty firm evidence of the driver's involvement to arrest for murder?
I would imagine finding that you have had that in the back of your lorry is pretty traumatic anyway without being arrested for murder as well. If he had no idea.
I would imagine running over a pedestrian through no fault of your own is pretty traumatic, yet you would still be arrested for causing death by dangerous driving.Would they need some pretty firm evidence of the driver's involvement to arrest for murder?
I would imagine finding that you have had that in the back of your lorry is pretty traumatic anyway without being arrested for murder as well. If he had no idea.
https://www.eagleradio.co.uk/news/local-news/29767...
I’m sure he will be fine the courts can’t even give attempted murder to people that actually shoot someone at point blank range
I’m sure he will be fine the courts can’t even give attempted murder to people that actually shoot someone at point blank range
Muddle238 said:
Art0ir said:
nikaiyo2 said:
Terrible that this happens.
Why are Irish (or any for that matter) firms registering vehicles in Bulgaria?
Tax and insurance costs.Why are Irish (or any for that matter) firms registering vehicles in Bulgaria?
JulianHJ said:
TTmonkey said:
If the guy has had the trailer to thirty odd minutes, and has called the emergency services to alert them of this utter horrid disaster, arresting him for murder and STILL detaining him 15 hours later smacks of incompetent policing to me.
What happened to ‘helping police with their enquiries?’. Do they not do that anymore? Or is it ‘arrest him for murder so we can search for any other reason to do him’?
What grounds do they have of suspecting him of murder anyway if he didn’t bring the trailer accross the channel? When you arrest someone you have to have grounds to suspect them of the offence that you are arresting them for don’t you. I don’t see how anyone could think this driver is involved in people smuggling and subsequent murder of these people if the trailer was brought accross the channel by means other than him towing it, and they seem to already know that this isn’t the case. If he was a people smuggler he’d have left the scene not called the emergency services.
He’s going to be traumatised by finding these bodies, and traumatised by being arrested on suspicion of murder. It would seem he’s done nothing wrong and done exactly the right thing on discovering these bodies. And he gets treated as if he’s some kind of monster.
Or is it that they treat all lorry drivers as murderers and are just playing the odds here....?
No wonder people are reluctant to help the police in this country these days.
25 year old lorry driver, named in the press as a suspected murderer. What the fek must his family be going through.
Armchair policing at it's best, well done.What happened to ‘helping police with their enquiries?’. Do they not do that anymore? Or is it ‘arrest him for murder so we can search for any other reason to do him’?
What grounds do they have of suspecting him of murder anyway if he didn’t bring the trailer accross the channel? When you arrest someone you have to have grounds to suspect them of the offence that you are arresting them for don’t you. I don’t see how anyone could think this driver is involved in people smuggling and subsequent murder of these people if the trailer was brought accross the channel by means other than him towing it, and they seem to already know that this isn’t the case. If he was a people smuggler he’d have left the scene not called the emergency services.
He’s going to be traumatised by finding these bodies, and traumatised by being arrested on suspicion of murder. It would seem he’s done nothing wrong and done exactly the right thing on discovering these bodies. And he gets treated as if he’s some kind of monster.
Or is it that they treat all lorry drivers as murderers and are just playing the odds here....?
No wonder people are reluctant to help the police in this country these days.
25 year old lorry driver, named in the press as a suspected murderer. What the fek must his family be going through.
zetec said:
I would imagine running over a pedestrian through no fault of your own is pretty traumatic, yet you would still be arrested for causing death by dangerous driving.
I'm sure. Murder though? It would make him a prolific serial killer when he's quite possibly (likely?) someone who has picked up what he thought was a trailer full of frozen food.JuanCarlosFandango said:
Appalling.
Would they need some pretty firm evidence of the driver's involvement to arrest for murder?
I would imagine finding that you have had that in the back of your lorry is pretty traumatic anyway without being arrested for murder as well. If he had no idea.
Please take the time to read the previous few pages where people with some insight have been kind enough to share their knowledge on this point.Would they need some pretty firm evidence of the driver's involvement to arrest for murder?
I would imagine finding that you have had that in the back of your lorry is pretty traumatic anyway without being arrested for murder as well. If he had no idea.
Speed 3 said:
TTmonkey said:
What happened to ‘helping police with their enquiries?’. Do they not do that anymore?
Not in law enforcement myself but I have noticed this too, is that not a policy any more or is there likely to be specific evidence in this case that leads to the arrest condition ?No one knows the grounds for this chap being arrested other than he's driving a truck with a stack of dead bodies in the back. On the face of it, that seems quite reasonable to me.
Greendubber said:
It was never 'policy'
No one knows the grounds for this chap being arrested other than he's driving a truck with a stack of dead bodies in the back. On the face of it, that seems quite reasonable to me.
Policy probably the wrong word, just doesn't seem to happen as often as it did do over the previous decades. I assumed that was due to legal or procedural changes. No perfect solution when guilt/not on serious crime is often binary. On the whole I think the UK generally strikes the right balance between defendant and accused rights, notwithstanding social media lynch mobs.No one knows the grounds for this chap being arrested other than he's driving a truck with a stack of dead bodies in the back. On the face of it, that seems quite reasonable to me.
Greendubber said:
It was never 'policy'
No one knows the grounds for this chap being arrested other than he's driving a truck with a stack of dead bodies in the back. On the face of it, that seems quite reasonable to me.
Quite. Prevents him from communicating with anyone, accessing any other potential evidence. I'm pretty liberal, but even I think it is reasonable to arrest and detain (initially) someone found with so many dead people.No one knows the grounds for this chap being arrested other than he's driving a truck with a stack of dead bodies in the back. On the face of it, that seems quite reasonable to me.
Speed 3 said:
Greendubber said:
It was never 'policy'
No one knows the grounds for this chap being arrested other than he's driving a truck with a stack of dead bodies in the back. On the face of it, that seems quite reasonable to me.
Policy probably the wrong word, just doesn't seem to happen as often as it did do over the previous decades. I assumed that was due to legal or procedural changes. No perfect solution when guilt/not on serious crime is often binary. On the whole I think the UK generally strikes the right balance between defendant and accused rights, notwithstanding social media lynch mobs.No one knows the grounds for this chap being arrested other than he's driving a truck with a stack of dead bodies in the back. On the face of it, that seems quite reasonable to me.
The way the Police have dealt with “suspects” hasn’t changed in decades
There have been some changes most notably the introduction of the Police and Criminal Evidence Act in the mid 80’s but people fall into the category of :
Suspects and witnesses although as the investigation unfolds the roles can be interchangeable
As I alluded to at the beginning of this thread it appears that the driver is likey to move from “suspect” to “witness”
But the Police must follow evidence and evidential rules to get from one to another
JuanCarlosFandango said:
zetec said:
I would imagine running over a pedestrian through no fault of your own is pretty traumatic, yet you would still be arrested for causing death by dangerous driving.
I'm sure. Murder though? It would make him a prolific serial killer when he's quite possibly (likely?) someone who has picked up what he thought was a trailer full of frozen food.Cantaloupe said:
Derek Smith said:
Nah. He's not even adequate. There are many other armchair detectives who are much better than this one.
Don't really think sneering and point scoring is grown up behaviour, are you 12 or something ?I could have gone through the post para by para - although I'd file the one starting 'Or is it that . . .' in the folder marked 'Can't be bothered to reply' - pointing out the basic errors, but they are rather obvious. I still think a bit of humour is a better way of showing my irritation than ranting at such poorly thought-out post.
You might have other thoughts. Good for you.
(I'm still not sure if I deserve a parrot. If so, my apologies. If not . . .)
Earthdweller said:
It was the way the media described events
The way the Police have dealt with “suspects” hasn’t changed in decades
There have been some changes most notably the introduction of the Police and Criminal Evidence Act in the mid 80’s but people fall into the category of :
Suspects and witnesses although as the investigation unfolds the roles can be interchangeable
As I alluded to at the beginning of this thread it appears that the driver is likey to move from “suspect” to “witness”
But the Police must follow evidence and evidential rules to get from one to another
AgreedThe way the Police have dealt with “suspects” hasn’t changed in decades
There have been some changes most notably the introduction of the Police and Criminal Evidence Act in the mid 80’s but people fall into the category of :
Suspects and witnesses although as the investigation unfolds the roles can be interchangeable
As I alluded to at the beginning of this thread it appears that the driver is likey to move from “suspect” to “witness”
But the Police must follow evidence and evidential rules to get from one to another
Earthdweller said:
Speed 3 said:
Greendubber said:
It was never 'policy'
No one knows the grounds for this chap being arrested other than he's driving a truck with a stack of dead bodies in the back. On the face of it, that seems quite reasonable to me.
Policy probably the wrong word, just doesn't seem to happen as often as it did do over the previous decades. I assumed that was due to legal or procedural changes. No perfect solution when guilt/not on serious crime is often binary. On the whole I think the UK generally strikes the right balance between defendant and accused rights, notwithstanding social media lynch mobs.No one knows the grounds for this chap being arrested other than he's driving a truck with a stack of dead bodies in the back. On the face of it, that seems quite reasonable to me.
The way the Police have dealt with “suspects” hasn’t changed in decades
There have been some changes most notably the introduction of the Police and Criminal Evidence Act in the mid 80’s but people fall into the category of :
Suspects and witnesses although as the investigation unfolds the roles can be interchangeable
As I alluded to at the beginning of this thread it appears that the driver is likey to move from “suspect” to “witness”
But the Police must follow evidence and evidential rules to get from one to another
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