The Tories aren’t working

[Earthdweller]

vaud said:

To be mildly fair to Northern Rail, some (I stress some) of their issues are down to delayed infrastructure which is 100% out of their hands.

Nationalising in this case is not a panacea.

I agree .. they’ve been dealt a bum hand and nationalising it won’t make one iota of a difference

Sorting out the link from the Ordsall Chord to Piccadilly and the capacity problems at Oxford Rd might

But as with a lot of the other issues NR have absolutely no control over

At least the Pacers are almost no more

[Red 4]

Earthdweller said:

Red 4 said:

Er, OK I will.

Northern Rail;
Calls for it to be renationalised because it is appalling.
.

And that will make a difference how exactly?

Same trains, same staff, same management, same problems, sane lack of solutions

Or are you going to tell me they have a magic remedy ?

The point is that as a private company it is failing.

The artist formerly known as Rovinghawk was saying that rail services have improved since they were privatised.

Times have changed but the railways are still problematic ( st, in other words ) in private hands.

[Earthdweller]

Red 4 said:

The point is that as a private company it is failing.

The artist formerly known as Rovinghawk was saying that rail services have improved since they were privatised.

Times have changed but the railways are still problemastic in private hands.

In fairness I actually think NorthernRail IS better than when it was BR

That’s not saying a lot ... it can be st now .. but BR was really st

[leef44]

Earthdweller said:

Red 4 said:

The point is that as a private company it is failing.

The artist formerly known as Rovinghawk was saying that rail services have improved since they were privatised.

Times have changed but the railways are still problemastic in private hands.

In fairness I actually think NorthernRail IS better than when it was BR

That’s not saying a lot ... it can be st now .. but BR was really st

Yes, I'm old enough to remember what BR was like in the old days, people nowadays just don't appreciate how good they've got it and need to stop comparing it with companies like Google, Amazon where you get instant response to feedback.

I used to go visit my sisters on a Sunday, the trains were 10am, 4pm or 9pm - that was it. No air con. All seats stunk, it was difficult to find a clean seat and most of them were torn with cushion material falling out. Delays were the norm so never needed to arrive on time for the train.

ETA: forgot to mention, the journey was between Southampton and Bristol at the time

Edited by leef44 on Thursday 23 January 08:56

[leef44]

Esceptico said:

I’ve worked mainly in the private sector (senior management in some of the world’s biggest firms) and a short stint in the public sector. From my perspective all were shockingly inefficient.

In the private sector I couldn’t believe the divide between management and workers. The pay and benefit for the workers was controlled very tightly with management trying to get away with paying as little as possible. However, benefits and excesses for management were off the scale. It was very pleasant going to a management “meeting” at a five star hotel in St Moritz (family included) and I’m sure the morning spent working was productive enough to offset the day and half we had on the slopes...

On the other hand, in the public sector where I worked many employees were effectively unsackable and you had to rely on their sense of duty or goodwill to get anything done because if they wanted to do fk all there was not much we as management could do about it.

You've hit the nail on the head.
If we nationalise everything, you end up with employees who are effectively unsackable and there is no motivation to do a good job yet alone an improved better job.
Of course, there are those who have the goodwill nature to want to do better but you are fighting against a tide of people who don't care less.

[RTB]

Esceptico said:

I’ve worked mainly in the private sector (senior management in some of the world’s biggest firms) and a short stint in the public sector. From my perspective all were shockingly inefficient.

In the private sector I couldn’t believe the divide between management and workers. The pay and benefit for the workers was controlled very tightly with management trying to get away with paying as little as possible. However, benefits and excesses for management were off the scale. It was very pleasant going to a management “meeting” at a five star hotel in St Moritz (family included) and I’m sure the morning spent working was productive enough to offset the day and half we had on the slopes...

On the other hand, in the public sector where I worked many employees were effectively unsackable and you had to rely on their sense of duty or goodwill to get anything done because if they wanted to do fk all there was not much we as management could do about it.

I work for a large blue-chip and I've worked in the public sector in the past. Inefficiency is rife in both, but the causes and motivations are different. In the public sector, there is a greater sense of job security and entitlement, leading to lots of low-level individual inefficiencies that just become the norm.
In the private sector, there's a boom and bust mentality with senior leaders trying to grow their departments needlessly during sunnier times (to the point there are more people than work, but they can say they have a department with 400 people in it) and then paring them back in leaner times. They seem to get rewarded for doing both

[Pan Pan Pan]

PHuzzy said:

Esceptico said:

PHuzzy said:

Because the answer will upset a large number of people.
To make the public sector more efficient, an awful lot of dead wood needs removing and it's not exactly a vote/public winner to put a large percentage of people out of work.

So instead we're stuck with years of expensive pensions and inefficiency that I'm guessing they'll try and phase out over time with 'austerity' measures by not replacing them and cutting the crap.

Ideally you'd start from scratch and build it from the ground up to run more like a business but as soon as we mention privatisation the world goes nuts because they know it'll cost them more. That's the price of efficiency.

But if it’s more efficient it should cost us less, not more.

In the long run, like for like it probably would do in operating costs but the initial investment would be ruinous.

How would you build something from scratch, whilst maintaining the current service without it costing a penny extra?

Same with newer and better equipment/drugs/training that reduce treatment time/increase efficiency.

It all costs money and no one is willing to pay for it.

Yup. Someone somewhere has to pay for the things we want/ need. Nothing is free, and the world does not owe a single one of us a living. If we want `stuff' the usual route is to go out and work for the wherewithal needed to pay for it.

[Mothersruin]

Did anyone ever work out where the OP's mum lived so we could look at the track record of the council he was so vehemently slagging off?

[leef44]

Mothersruin said:

Did anyone ever work out where the OP's mum lived so we could look at the track record of the council he was so vehemently slagging off?

I know, this Tory government of over 40 years is completely taking this country apart based on someone abroad who has been told by his mum that the grass on the green has not been cut..;)

Don't you love PH threads