Would you install and use an NHS Covid tracking app?
Poll: Would you install and use an NHS Covid tracking app?
Total Members Polled: 875
Discussion
G_Morto said:
If this is like the Singapore/Australian one then it doesn't actually track you, it uses Bluetooth Low Energy technology and all it does is track your proximity to other app users. It doesn't track your location. And alerts are anonymised. You give away more data ordering online...
"I'm going to buy the cheapest Chinese phone I can find on eBay but I'm really worried about what information this open source application using Apple and Google OS hooks is sending back to the UK Government."b
hstewie said:
hstewie said:G_Morto said:
If this is like the Singapore/Australian one then it doesn't actually track you, it uses Bluetooth Low Energy technology and all it does is track your proximity to other app users. It doesn't track your location. And alerts are anonymised. You give away more data ordering online...
"I'm going to buy the cheapest Chinese phone I can find on eBay but I'm really worried about what information this open source application using Apple and Google OS hooks is sending back to the UK Government."Lots of if's and buts and not much concrete info.
Gov can make up the rules aka issue a hollow apology whenever they like.
Corporations are subject to far more stringent controls and scrutiny and ultimately fines to keep them somewhat close to the straight and narrow. Also different motives than gov.
Gov can make up the rules aka issue a hollow apology whenever they like.
Corporations are subject to far more stringent controls and scrutiny and ultimately fines to keep them somewhat close to the straight and narrow. Also different motives than gov.
Zirconia said:
Getting some more serious testing now.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-52381103
Interesting, thanks.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-52381103
article said:
NHSX has also promised to publish its key security and privacy designs as well as the app's source code, so experts in the field can help ensure it is "world class".
The division is working with Apple and Google on the project but has yet to confirm whether it will adopt their protocols.
The two companies are pressing developers to adopt a "decentralised approach", whereby it would be impossible for either specific users or those they had come into contact with to be identified by the authorities or any other external party.
In any case, NHSX believes its system already prevents it from being able to identify users until they request a swab test.
If this is all the case, then from a privacy point of view, fine. Though in that case why not just adopt the A/G api and sign up to their conditions?The division is working with Apple and Google on the project but has yet to confirm whether it will adopt their protocols.
The two companies are pressing developers to adopt a "decentralised approach", whereby it would be impossible for either specific users or those they had come into contact with to be identified by the authorities or any other external party.
In any case, NHSX believes its system already prevents it from being able to identify users until they request a swab test.
article said:
NHSX also believes it has found a way to ensure its software continues to work in the background on iOS devices.
Interesting. One would assume this is just asking the user to grant Bluetooth permissions. If it’s more tricksie than that, it’ll be interesting to see what Apple has to say - they don’t usually take kindly to attempts to work around their rules...I do have a question about this app.
Not from a technology or privacy perspective but from a practical one.
I haven't knowingly had COVID-19 and I start using the app on Monday and on Thursday I get a ping to say I've been in contact with someone who self-certifies that they've shown symptoms or have been tested.
I self-isolate for 7 days.
Without widespread testing I may or may not have COVID-19 and when I walk out of the house after 7 days presumably I could immediately start to get alerts as I encounter people.
How will we minimise people getting in an endless loop of "pings" followed by self-isolation?
Or is the assumption that the testing infrastructure will be there?
Not from a technology or privacy perspective but from a practical one.
I haven't knowingly had COVID-19 and I start using the app on Monday and on Thursday I get a ping to say I've been in contact with someone who self-certifies that they've shown symptoms or have been tested.
I self-isolate for 7 days.
Without widespread testing I may or may not have COVID-19 and when I walk out of the house after 7 days presumably I could immediately start to get alerts as I encounter people.
How will we minimise people getting in an endless loop of "pings" followed by self-isolation?
Or is the assumption that the testing infrastructure will be there?
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: I do have a question about this app.
Not from a technology or privacy perspective but from a practical one.
I haven't knowingly had COVID-19 and I start using the app on Monday and on Thursday I get a ping to say I've been in contact with someone who self-certifies that they've shown symptoms or have been tested.
I self-isolate for 7 days.
Without widespread testing I may or may not have COVID-19 and when I walk out of the house after 7 days presumably I could immediately start to get alerts as I encounter people.
How will we minimise people getting in an endless loop of "pings" followed by self-isolation?
Or is the assumption that the testing infrastructure will be there?
Ha, good question! It would be pretty easy to end up in an endless loop of self isolation, especially if you live in a city.Not from a technology or privacy perspective but from a practical one.
I haven't knowingly had COVID-19 and I start using the app on Monday and on Thursday I get a ping to say I've been in contact with someone who self-certifies that they've shown symptoms or have been tested.
I self-isolate for 7 days.
Without widespread testing I may or may not have COVID-19 and when I walk out of the house after 7 days presumably I could immediately start to get alerts as I encounter people.
How will we minimise people getting in an endless loop of "pings" followed by self-isolation?
Or is the assumption that the testing infrastructure will be there?
I guess yes, it kinda has to work in coordination with a far bigger and more responsive testing regime than we currently have... I guess maybe this is connected with the 100,000 tests a day target....!
Perhaps some kind of setting in the app that you can activate if you've had it already to change the way it behaves? Assuming of course, that having it does give you some level of immunity to it...
If you have a Huawei you simply need to give the UK government permission to ask the CCP for your data
Or maybe you don't? compliments of Mr. Cameron...
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Thanks for that pearl Ben
Or maybe you don't? compliments of Mr. Cameron...
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Thanks for that pearl Ben
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-health-coronavir...
More chat with Apple, asking to move the goal posts with regards privacy for the bloc (EU). Then mentioned nearly a dozen or so countries have come up with their own apps and they are trying to tie down the privacy guidelines. We are out now, wonder what we will get and where the difference will be for the EU and regarding future travel etc.
More chat with Apple, asking to move the goal posts with regards privacy for the bloc (EU). Then mentioned nearly a dozen or so countries have come up with their own apps and they are trying to tie down the privacy guidelines. We are out now, wonder what we will get and where the difference will be for the EU and regarding future travel etc.
Zirconia said:
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-health-coronavir...
More chat with Apple, asking to move the goal posts with regards privacy for the bloc (EU). Then mentioned nearly a dozen or so countries have come up with their own apps and they are trying to tie down the privacy guidelines. We are out now, wonder what we will get and where the difference will be for the EU and regarding future travel etc.
Thanks. Again, interesting.More chat with Apple, asking to move the goal posts with regards privacy for the bloc (EU). Then mentioned nearly a dozen or so countries have come up with their own apps and they are trying to tie down the privacy guidelines. We are out now, wonder what we will get and where the difference will be for the EU and regarding future travel etc.
article said:
It is “the responsibility of companies such as Apple to do their utmost to develop suitable technical solutions to make the national apps work. Coordination with EU member states’ health authorities is paramount,” Breton said in a statement.
They have developed a technical solution to make it work. It's just the countries involved want their apps to be able to suck down more data.No idea in terms of the relationship between EU/UK. I would have thought the tech companies will come up with one policy for all players. In fact they have, it's just the players don't like it. I'd imagine any alteration to that policy will be the same for all.
Possibly a bone of contention for travel in the coming years. Go to another country outside the EU/UK and you must have the countries app on. Tourism becomes how far are you willing to let someone scrape your data. Could get interesting with regards comments that may have been made against some governments.
Zirconia said:
Possibly a bone of contention for travel in the coming years. Go to another country outside the EU/UK and you must have the countries app on. Tourism becomes how far are you willing to let someone scrape your data. Could get interesting with regards comments that may have been made against some governments.
It could, but in the end the final arbiter on the data collection in the apps will be Apple and Google. At some point all of these apps are going to have to be submitted to the app stores. At that point, they'll either be accepted, or sent back for modification to meet the guidelines.This will essentially result in a limit of how the apps act, how effective they are (Technically, what they can do in the background), and how much data they can extract from them. I can't see any government voluntarily making their app take less than that limit, so they'll all end up being very similar in that regard I would have thought.
Matt Hancock on R4 this am, some interesting words but interviewer not pinning that down.
"new app to help to identify who people have been close to". In mention as part of the larger picture.
iPlayer R4 08:11 (just after the start, it is a long interview).
Could be the verbal mix up of an interview.
"new app to help to identify who people have been close to". In mention as part of the larger picture.
iPlayer R4 08:11 (just after the start, it is a long interview).
Could be the verbal mix up of an interview.
Zirconia said:
Matt Hancock on R4 this am, some interesting words but interviewer not pinning that down.
"new app to help to identify who people have been close to". In mention as part of the larger picture.
iPlayer R4 08:11 (just after the start, it is a long interview).
Could be the verbal mix up of an interview.
I heard that, but I wouldn't read too much into it. Whenever more complicated tech subjects hit politics (The encryption debate for example) it becomes abundantly clear most politicians have pretty much zero understanding of how these things actually work (Which is kinda understandable). When they talk about it, particularly in a pressurised situation like an interview, they pretty often come up with turns of phrase that aren't accurate."new app to help to identify who people have been close to". In mention as part of the larger picture.
iPlayer R4 08:11 (just after the start, it is a long interview).
Could be the verbal mix up of an interview.
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