Scottish Politics / Independence - Vol 11

[roadtripboy]

aparna said:

It means Scotland is the first priority of the party.

What does that even mean?

[irc]

roadtripboy said:

aparna said:

It means Scotland is the first priority of the party.

What does that even mean?

It is meanigless. Scotland is not a single entity. Govy policies need to balance the interests of different groups. Rural population V urban population. Tax payers versus benefit claimants. Doctors v patients. Etc etc.

Politics is about where the emphasis is put.

The only thing Scotland first means is that the SNP places gaining independence above all else. So if there was a policy which would possibly make Scotland better off in some way but would reduce the chance on indepenence the SNP would not make that choice.

Plenty examples. But the Covid broadcasts in Scotland was a good example. Since the virus and the science was the same it would have made sense and avoided confusion to have a UK policy. Instead, we had the same policies but tweaked very slightly to be Scottish. And no acknowledgement that had we not been in the UK with it's a science base for developing vaccines and buying power to supply them more Scots woyld have died during the pandemic.

[aparna]

Easy to demonstrate it’s not synymous with Indy.

You could have a unionist party that was ‘Scotland first’.

Meaning it was based in Scotland, and have Scotland’s best interest always up front. If they could campaign on basis that being in the union is best for Scotland and win votes on that fair enough.

However branch office of Scot Tory or Labour are always going to be loyal to RUK on any contentious issue. They are only allowed to campaign on issues which don’t tread on the toes of their parent offices.

Politics is always messy. But personally I can’t see a non SF party ever pulling in front of snp.

[the-sharpener]

aparna said:

Easy to demonstrate it’s not synymous with Indy.

You could have a unionist party that was ‘Scotland first’.

Meaning it was based in Scotland, and have Scotland’s best interest always up front. If they could campaign on basis that being in the union is best for Scotland and win votes on that fair enough.

However branch office of Scot Tory or Labour are always going to be loyal to RUK on any contentious issue. They are only allowed to campaign on issues which don’t tread on the toes of their parent offices.

Politics is always messy. But personally I can’t see a non SF party ever pulling in front of snp.

Which is why we will have a minority voting SNP into office for evermore

The SNP will then let scotland decline as it gets them votes

The only way to end it is shutdown holyrood or independence.

As independence won’t happen until some of the YOONs have left then we are stuck like this

A new Scotland first party won’t happen as voting for them might let the wrong lizard in

[Leithen]

I'm voting for Perthshire First and screw the rest of you.

[aparna]

Well another option would be for Scottish Labour to break from the main party. I think that would be popular. Would allow them to campaign independently on toxic-in-England topics that are currently in the black list. And more confidently offer devolution options that no one currently believes they have will or ability to deliver.

[Ecosseven]

aparna said:

Well another option would be for Scottish Labour to break from the main party. I think that would be popular. Would allow them to campaign independently on toxic-in-England topics that are currently in the black list. And more confidently offer devolution options that no one currently believes they have will or ability to deliver.

Perhaps, but voting patterns in Scotland are so heavily influenced by which side of the unionist / nationalist fence you sit on I'm not sure it would make a huge difference. The SNP are hopeless in a number of areas and I doubt a large proportion of their supporters could list even a handful of their policies beyond independence. Their core supporters will keep voting for them regardless of their performance because they are by far the largest party that wants independence and they have done a brilliant job of convincing people that the Westminster government are to blame for everything that goes wrong in Scotland.

I will always want what is best for Scotland and it's people and I would be happy for another party to focus on Scotlands needs but it does risk splitting the nationalist / unionist vote. That is either a good thing or bad thing depending on your views on independence!

[simoid]

aparna said:

Easy to demonstrate it’s not synymous with Indy.

You could have a unionist party that was ‘Scotland first’.

Meaning it was based in Scotland, and have Scotland’s best interest always up front. If they could campaign on basis that being in the union is best for Scotland and win votes on that fair enough.

However branch office of Scot Tory or Labour are always going to be loyal to RUK on any contentious issue. They are only allowed to campaign on issues which don’t tread on the toes of their parent offices.

Politics is always messy. But personally I can’t see a non SF party ever pulling in front of snp.

You appear to be working on the mistaken assumption that the SNP have Scotland’s best interests at heart.

[Roderick Spode]

I see the Tartan Despot is now introducing vaccine passports for nightclubs & large gatherings. A two tier society. To be put to a Holyrood vote, but with the SNP gardening division in place it's a foregone conclusion. Your papers please...

Article said:

The Scottish Government plans to introduce vaccine passports for entry to nightclubs and large public events.

Nicola Sturgeon announced the certification will be used for clubs as well as unseated indoor live events with more than 500 people in attendance.

It will also apply to unseated outdoor events with more than 4,000 in the audience. Any event with more than 10,000 in attendance will also use vaccine passports.

The new system will be subject to a vote in the Scottish Parliament next week.

Ms Sturgeon updated MSPs on coronavirus on Wednesday afternoon and she said the vaccine passport system will have to be implemented “quickly” ahead of winter.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/nicola-sturgeon...

[the-sharpener]

But of course at this time the Scottish NHS has no method for issuing electronic vaccine certificates

Must be the fault of the english

[Ian974]

What with the rules where cafes could open while restaurants couldn't despite there being no legal difference between the two, deciding that masks do need to be worn in shops two weeks after allowing shops to reopen, and did I see something earlier in the thread where some of their covid laws effectively have no punishment for breaking them?
I'm sure this will be a well polished bowel movement by the time they decide it shall pass next week...
Cynical, moi?

[Leithen]

There is, of course, no licensing act definition of what constitutes a nightclub.

Doesn't matter, the tinpot government will make something up.

[csd19]

the-sharpener said:

But of course at this time the Scottish NHS has no method for issuing electronic vaccine certificates

Must be the fault of the english

If they do as good a job this time round as their first efforts at a vaccine passport, you'll be able to edit it in Adobe Acrobat anyway...

[malks222]

so many problems with this vaccine passport announcement:

- what differentiates a nightclub from a pub/ bar that’s open until 1/2/3am that plays music and has a space where people can stand/ shuffle around/ dance?
- why does vaccination status matter but positive/ negative test status doesn’t?
- how will the check your vaccine status- will the scan a QR code? if so- will the be able to read nhs england/ wales or foreign vaccine passports?
- what medical grounds are you allowed to be exempt? can you just self certify?

I’m already vaccinated, but think these potential new rules are absolute nonsense!

[simoid]

And will staff working at these events be banned or furloughed or what?

And football players who haven’t been jabbed, can they play?

[colin79666]

For the first time in my life I’m seriously researching the possibilities of emigrating when things open back up.

It is obvious to the person in the street that cloth masks do little and the vaccines provide some protection against the symptoms they do little if anything around spread.

Politics is totally broken in the UK now. A clown in number 10 and no effective opposition at Westminster or Hollywood there is no end in sight, just more media spin, self interest protecting and power grabbing rather than working for the public good.

A thoroughly depressing situation!

[Alpacaman]

So according to Kate Forbes if we have to lockdown again or need furlough then Westminster will have to pay because Scotland hasn't got the money-

https://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/19548626.c...

So an independent Scotland would do what exactly?

[the-sharpener]

Alpacaman said:

So according to Kate Forbes if we have to lockdown again or need furlough then Westminster will have to pay because Scotland hasn't got the money-

https://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/19548626.c...

So an independent Scotland would do what exactly?

Blame the english

No changes

[Ridgemont]

Alpacaman said:

So according to Kate Forbes if we have to lockdown again or need furlough then Westminster will have to pay because Scotland hasn't got the money-

https://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/19548626.c...

So an independent Scotland would do what exactly?

Levers. Apparently.

[Ridgemont]

And in other news (thread cross over from No **** Sherlock)’:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/f...

Think tanks recommends Scottish gov trials of 4 day working week be expanded to include part time workers, shift workers etc.

How lovely. I do hope Forbes can afford that as well....