Jon Venables back in prison

[YAD061]

Parrot of Doom said:

YAD061 said:

Parrot of Doom said:

YAD061 said:

Could anyone explain to me why this pair were given such extreme measures of protection after they commited horrendous crimes when an innocent mother and her daughter recieved nothing despite years of sustained violence against them?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/mot...

Clearly we are incapable of agreeing about the punishment for V&T but surely the expense and effort gone into protecting them is a kick in the teeth for innocent crime victims

Because there are people out there who would become vigilantes, and Venables and Thompson are entitled to the protection of the law.

Or maybe you'd rather see those vigilantes murder them, and then pay for the subsequent trial and prison sentence?

So why aren't non criminals awarded the same level of concern in the face of known danger, and please quote where I said I support vigilanteism

Non criminals presumably as notorious as those two?

By the way, I didn't say anything about you supporting vigilantism. Please quote where I did?

Let's not argue semantics, you inferred it, and I don't understand why you get a twig up your arse every time I enter a debate either. Despite your opinion that V&T were notorious, people died in both cases, my point is that the unfortunate mother and daughter were offered no such consideration, none in fact if you feel that one merits more attention than the other.

[Parrot of Doom]

monthefish said:

OK - specifics then - who is (was) more entitled to protection from the state/police - Venables/Thompson or Fiona Pilkington & her daughter Francecca Hardwick?

The law doesn't judge such things. All people in this country have equal and unassailable rights, and therefore the latter two are entitled to no more or less protection than the former two.

[Parrot of Doom]

YAD061 said:

Let's not argue semantics, you inferred it, and I don't understand why you get a twig up your arse every time I enter a debate either. Despite your opinion that V&T were notorious, people died in both cases, my point is that the unfortunate mother and daughter were offered no such consideration, none in fact if you feel that one merits more attention than the other.

I didn't infer anything, nor did I imply anything—I asked a question.

Its a weak argument to compare two completely dissimilar and unrelated cases to attempt to synthesise some kind of connection.

Edited by Parrot of Doom on Friday 5th March 17:14

[LJTS]

The criminal justice system in this country is so corrupt but nobody seems to care!

No doubt there are a lot of people profiteering from the way it is & they don't want it to change!!!

[YAD061]

Parrot of Doom said:

YAD061 said:

Let's not argue semantics, you inferred it, and I don't understand why you get a twig up your arse every time I enter a debate either. Despite your opinion that V&T were notorious, people died in both cases, my point is that the unfortunate mother and daughter were offered no such consideration, none in fact if you feel that one merits more attention than the other.

I didn't infer anything, nor did I imply anything—I asked a question.

Its a weak argument to compare two completely dissimilar and unrelated cases to attempt to synthesise some kind of connection.

Edited by Parrot of Doom on Friday 5th March 17:14

"or maybe you'd rather see vigilanteism" is a suggestion, " or would you prefer to see vigilanteism?" is a question but you seem to like having the last word so have that one on me.

And it's entirely up to you to think that 2 unrelated cases have no connection but I believe that the law should protect everyone under threat, criminals and the public

Edited by YAD061 on Friday 5th March 17:51

[monthefish]

Parrot of Doom said:

monthefish said:

OK - specifics then - who is (was) more entitled to protection from the state/police - Venables/Thompson or Fiona Pilkington & her daughter Francecca Hardwick?

The law doesn't judge such things. All people in this country have equal and unassailable rights, and therefore the latter two are entitled to no more or less protection than the former two.

...and your own opinion????

[tinman0]

Parrot of Doom said:

monthefish said:

OK - specifics then - who is (was) more entitled to protection from the state/police - Venables/Thompson or Fiona Pilkington & her daughter Francecca Hardwick?

The law doesn't judge such things. All people in this country have equal and unassailable rights, and therefore the latter two are entitled to no more or less protection than the former two.

Problem is that the latter took their lives because the Police refused to take them seriously enough.

And the two cases do have a strange link as both involve the behaviour of young people. The only difference was that the assailants of the latter did not kill them directly.

Not exactly different to the old couple that were taunted by some youths earlier this week and had their motability scooter torched. Gas canister was stored next to it, and killed the pensioners inside the house whilst they slept.

All of these cases are linked - youths who are more or less out of control and a Police force that is unable to protect people because of a judiciary that has evolved punishments that are no longer a deterrent.

[YAD061]

tinman0 said:

Parrot of Doom said:

monthefish said:

OK - specifics then - who is (was) more entitled to protection from the state/police - Venables/Thompson or Fiona Pilkington & her daughter Francecca Hardwick?

The law doesn't judge such things. All people in this country have equal and unassailable rights, and therefore the latter two are entitled to no more or less protection than the former two.

Problem is that the latter took their lives because the Police refused to take them seriously enough.

And the two cases do have a strange link as both involve the behaviour of young people. The only difference was that the assailants of the latter did not kill them directly.

Not exactly different to the old couple that were taunted by some youths earlier this week and had their motability scooter torched. Gas canister was stored next to it, and killed the pensioners inside the house whilst they slept.

All of these cases are linked - youths who are more or less out of control and a Police force that is unable to protect people because of a judiciary that has evolved punishments that are no longer a deterrent.

Kind of, my point was the ability of the law to provide extensive care for V&T far outweighed their ability to protect the general public when in danger

[Parrot of Doom]

monthefish said:

Parrot of Doom said:

monthefish said:

OK - specifics then - who is (was) more entitled to protection from the state/police - Venables/Thompson or Fiona Pilkington & her daughter Francecca Hardwick?

The law doesn't judge such things. All people in this country have equal and unassailable rights, and therefore the latter two are entitled to no more or less protection than the former two.

...and your own opinion????

My opinion mirrors that of the law.

[LJTS]

The police seem to have their hands tied by the justice system in the UK!

How can criminals have more rights than their victims????

Only in the UK

[micky g]

Dave_ST220 said:

micky g said:

Dave_ST220 said:

Parrot of Doom said:

micky g said:

Parrot of Doom said:

monthefish said:

Parrot of Doom said:

Dave_ST220 said:

A 10 year old, no matter what the upbringing, knows what they did was serverly wrong. I have a daughter about the same age as James, how anyone, no matter what age, could do what those evil bds did is beyond me.

Of course they knew it was wrong.

They simply didn't care, and that is entirely as a result of their horrific upbringing.


I'm amazed at how often this simple but important fact needs to be repeated.

I know what you are tyring to convey, however no upbringing can over-ride the human instincts with regards to not torturing a small child.

What they did was more evil and extreme than any 'ubringing' or 'social issues' could ever begin to justify/explain.

Prove it.

Why do you think the army recruit at the earliest age possible?

The atrocities carried out in the name of war?

'...overide the human instincts...'?

The mind can be a fragile thing, particularly the mind of a child.

Oh look, the army. Lets also bring whales into the discussion, and while we're at it, cardboard boxes.

Or even McDonalds and their scolding hot tea in not fit for purpose cups eh? Tit.

Perhaps I was too vague for some of the simpler thinking folk on here. The relevance of the army is that they train young minds to kill. Unfortunately, you don't have to go back far in history to see countless women and children slaughtered in the name of war.

I struggle to comprehend how anyone is capable of such atrocities, but capable they are, and they do it in the belief that they are right.

It's a fair analogy and remember, when you call me a tit, it's you that drives the Mondeo

Edited by micky g on Thursday 4th March 23:12

& now maybe learn how the quote sytem works & check who i was quoting. Tit indeed.

ETA, you've been a member that long & don't understand quotes? & you call me simpler thinking? I'll edit the original quote to make it very easy for the "simpler thinking" as you put it. ie, you.

Edited by Dave_ST220 on Friday 5th March 08:19

I misunderstood your sarcasm Dave and, (mistakenly), thought you were adding your weight behind the post prior to yours. My apologies for the comment and slur, (which was made with tongue firmly in cheek...)

[Dave_ST220]

Hey,i drive a Mondeo

[monthefish]

England's children's commissioner Maggie Atkinson said:

What they did was exceptionally unpleasant

BBC link

exceptionally unpleasant?????????

Exceptionally unpleasant is following through whilst trying to give someone a Dutch Oven, or vomiting in someones mouth. It is not torturing and killing a small boy.



I wonder whether she would describe it as such if it had happened to someone close to her?

[Mojocvh]

monthefish said:

England's children's commissioner Maggie Atkinson said:

What they did was exceptionally unpleasant

BBC link

exceptionally unpleasant?????????

Exceptionally unpleasant is following through whilst trying to give someone a Dutch Oven, or vomiting in someones mouth. It is not torturing and killing a small boy.



I wonder whether she would describe it as such if it had happened to someone close to her?

Wonder what her last major life negative event was, shopping delivery delayed perhaps?

[okgo]

Mojocvh said:

monthefish said:

England's children's commissioner Maggie Atkinson said:

What they did was exceptionally unpleasant

BBC link

exceptionally unpleasant?????????

Exceptionally unpleasant is following through whilst trying to give someone a Dutch Oven, or vomiting in someones mouth. It is not torturing and killing a small boy.



I wonder whether she would describe it as such if it had happened to someone close to her?

Wonder what her last major life negative event was, shopping delivery delayed perhaps?

how would you prefer she described it?

[Mojocvh]

okgo said:

Mojocvh said:

monthefish said:

England's children's commissioner Maggie Atkinson said:

What they did was exceptionally unpleasant

BBC link

exceptionally unpleasant?????????

Exceptionally unpleasant is following through whilst trying to give someone a Dutch Oven, or vomiting in someones mouth. It is not torturing and killing a small boy.



I wonder whether she would describe it as such if it had happened to someone close to her?

Wonder what her last major life negative event was, shopping delivery delayed perhaps?

how would you prefer she described it?

[bonsai]

replace "unpleasant" with "evil" and she'd be closer to the mark.

[okgo]

Fair enough, but in the heat of a debate sometimes getting the exact word to please everyone is hard, and I think her phrase is passable.

[Parrot of Doom]

bonsai said:

replace "unpleasant" with "evil" and she'd be closer to the mark.

Maybe you also believe in witches, and fairies?

[alfabadass]

Can't see what the fuss is with this latest twist.

Sometimes the lack of rational thought within the general population troubles me greatly!