Japan Fukushima nuclear thread
Discussion
I've believed for a long time that we need more emphasis on nuclear energy production given the s
tewhite wash peddled re. inefficiency and the delusional claims about the likes of wind power, even with concerns over security and accident prevention.
But hearing all these reports about Tepco, the Japanese nuclear industry in general and governmental collusion is beginning to make me have doubts. It was one thing to be concerned about safety and security in the former eastern bloc and similar locales but one might have assumed that the Japanese of all people would have been on top of things; it seems not. Literally criminal breaches of policy, activity and common sense seem to have been going on, semi-covered (up), for ages.
I'm not one to scare monger for the sake of it but wonder if this just goes to show that we can't fully trust industry and government when money and 'need' meet. Can we be sure that operators here and the regulators/government would be more competent and trustworthy?
teBut hearing all these reports about Tepco, the Japanese nuclear industry in general and governmental collusion is beginning to make me have doubts. It was one thing to be concerned about safety and security in the former eastern bloc and similar locales but one might have assumed that the Japanese of all people would have been on top of things; it seems not. Literally criminal breaches of policy, activity and common sense seem to have been going on, semi-covered (up), for ages.
I'm not one to scare monger for the sake of it but wonder if this just goes to show that we can't fully trust industry and government when money and 'need' meet. Can we be sure that operators here and the regulators/government would be more competent and trustworthy?
Lost_BMW said:
I've believed for a long time that we need more emphasis on nuclear energy production given the stewhite wash peddled re. inefficiency and the delusional claims about the likes of wind power, even with concerns over security and accident prevention.
But hearing all these reports about Tepco, the Japanese nuclear industry in general and governmental collusion is beginning to make me have doubts. It was one thing to be concerned about safety and security in the former eastern bloc and similar locales but one might have assumed that the Japanese of all people would have been on top of things; it seems not. Literally criminal breaches of policy, activity and common sense seem to have been going on, semi-covered (up), for ages.
I'm not one to scare monger for the sake of it but wonder if this just goes to show that we can't fully trust industry and government when money and 'need' meet. Can we be sure that operators here and the regulators/government would be more competent and trustworthy?
You have to bear in mind though that these plants were designed in the early years of nuclear power. We should certainly assess modern reactor designs in terms of safety if disater strikes. In Japan a Tsumani, here a terrorist attack or similar. But we shouldn't overreact and condemn all new building out of hand.teBut hearing all these reports about Tepco, the Japanese nuclear industry in general and governmental collusion is beginning to make me have doubts. It was one thing to be concerned about safety and security in the former eastern bloc and similar locales but one might have assumed that the Japanese of all people would have been on top of things; it seems not. Literally criminal breaches of policy, activity and common sense seem to have been going on, semi-covered (up), for ages.
I'm not one to scare monger for the sake of it but wonder if this just goes to show that we can't fully trust industry and government when money and 'need' meet. Can we be sure that operators here and the regulators/government would be more competent and trustworthy?
JagLover said:
You have to bear in mind though that these plants were designed in the early years of nuclear power. We should certainly assess modern reactor designs in terms of safety if disater strikes. In Japan a Tsumani, here a terrorist attack or similar. But we shouldn't overreact and condemn all new building out of hand.
No, I wasn't condemning new builds, or relating to the elderly designs running in Japan - more the shennanigans the operators and regulators have pulled, like the poor standard of care/ working for the sub contracted lower tier workers and the ludicrous things reported re. 'cleaning' etc. You'd think in this industry of all others they would be more careful but they seem to have been very cavalier. If this is implicit in human nature or businesses (carelessness, laziness, cost concerns, expedience, dishonesty etc.) can we trust 'our lot'?
It's sad to be in a position of pointing out the flaws and faults with the Japanese nuclear industry (which are many and various), and then think about the amount of depleted uranium deliberately being spread around the world by the 'responsible west'.
http://rt.com/usa/news/nato-depleted-uranium-libya...
The list of countries covered in this dust is growing each year, TEPCO were irresponsible and incompetent but no match for the lunatics on 'our' side.
And all the while we have ignorant fkwits bleating on about CO2, Christ what a screwed up world we live in!
As for our own home nuclear plants I think the main thing is our favour is luck.
http://rt.com/usa/news/nato-depleted-uranium-libya...
The list of countries covered in this dust is growing each year, TEPCO were irresponsible and incompetent but no match for the lunatics on 'our' side.
And all the while we have ignorant f
kwits bleating on about CO2, Christ what a screwed up world we live in!As for our own home nuclear plants I think the main thing is our favour is luck.
Globs said:
It's sad to be in a position of pointing out the flaws and faults with the Japanese nuclear industry (which are many and various), and then think about the amount of depleted uranium deliberately being spread around the world by the 'responsible west'.
http://rt.com/usa/news/nato-depleted-uranium-libya...
The list of countries covered in this dust is growing each year, TEPCO were irresponsible and incompetent but no match for the lunatics on 'our' side.
And all the while we have ignorant fkwits bleating on about CO2, Christ what a screwed up world we live in!
As for our own home nuclear plants I think the main thing is our favour is luck.
I've been meaning to ask you this... in both threads... what are your qualifications that you are this able to pontificate about a whole industry?http://rt.com/usa/news/nato-depleted-uranium-libya...
The list of countries covered in this dust is growing each year, TEPCO were irresponsible and incompetent but no match for the lunatics on 'our' side.
And all the while we have ignorant f
kwits bleating on about CO2, Christ what a screwed up world we live in!As for our own home nuclear plants I think the main thing is our favour is luck.
Edit: Or are you just, as I suspect, talking uninformed b
ks?Edited by JonRB on Wednesday 13th April 22:21
JonRB said:
I've been meaning to ask you this... in both threads... what are your qualifications that you are this able to pontificate about a whole industry?
Jon, I realise I'm more interesting to you than the events in Japan, but please try to get a grip. Use the 'Ignore Thread' button if you need to.JonRB said:
MOTORVATOR said:
No dosimeters and workers without boots. Tepco really don't look good in this.
That's appalling! Seriously? That's barely believable. The Japanese are sticklers for regulations for a start. JonRB said:
MOTORVATOR said:
No dosimeters and workers without boots. Tepco really don't look good in this.
That's appalling! Seriously? That's barely believable. The Japanese are sticklers for regulations for a start. 
If the report is true though and a couple of workers suffered burns from walking through radioactive water as it states, then you do have to wonder.
hairykrishna said:
I think, according to the IAEA, they had boots - water sloshed over the top. Everyone there has their personal dosimeters I assume - I can't see why they wouldn't as they would have all been wearing them before the accident. I presume the various news reports are referring to them not having a rate meter each.
I'd be stunned if they didn't have personal dosimeters. That would surely be a totally baseline given?hairykrishna said:
JonRB said:
MOTORVATOR said:
No dosimeters and workers without boots. Tepco really don't look good in this.
That's appalling! Seriously? That's barely believable. The Japanese are sticklers for regulations for a start. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/apr/12/japan-...
Although I remember a report early on that the Yanks were providing more suits etc.
I think I'll stand by my comment that Tepco will not come out this looking good. In fact they will be at least partially responsible for providing the ammunition to nuclear objections in the future.
JonRB said:
MOTORVATOR said:
I think I'll stand by my comment that Tepco will not come out this looking good. In fact they will be at least partially responsible for providing the ammunition to nuclear objections in the future.
I find it very hard to disagree with you here. It's all too easy now if you want to argue against nuclear to just bring them up and say what makes your operator for this new facility any different than them. Ok now prove it.
Made worse by the fact that in all likelyhood when this is over Tepco will continue to run the remainder plants but with a new board again.
Even if they manage to contain the discharges now to an acceptable level there is always going to that nagging doubt over how close they came.
And what happens when the Tokyo big one happens? Plenty of nuclear plants left there still operating to do the same again or worse.
Not sure what the best avenue will be if we want to promote nuclear now.
Globs said:
It's sad to be in a position of pointing out the flaws and faults with the Japanese nuclear industry (which are many and various), and then think about the amount of depleted uranium deliberately being spread around the world by the 'responsible west'.
http://rt.com/usa/news/nato-depleted-uranium-libya...
The list of countries covered in this dust is growing each year, TEPCO were irresponsible and incompetent but no match for the lunatics on 'our' side.
And all the while we have ignorant fkwits bleating on about CO2, Christ what a screwed up world we live in!
As for our own home nuclear plants I think the main thing is our favour is luck.
There's a certain irony to dropping 3500 tons of depleted uranium on Iraq in a quest for weapons of mass destruction. It's a crime against humanity and those responsible should be brought to justice. http://rt.com/usa/news/nato-depleted-uranium-libya...
The list of countries covered in this dust is growing each year, TEPCO were irresponsible and incompetent but no match for the lunatics on 'our' side.
And all the while we have ignorant f
kwits bleating on about CO2, Christ what a screwed up world we live in!As for our own home nuclear plants I think the main thing is our favour is luck.
No doubt the usual suspects on here will be along shortly to tell us that a little uranium oxide in your air, water and food never did anyone any harm. Thousands of veterans and not a few Iraqi, Kosovan, Afghan and now Libyan civilians beg to differ.
Still, it puts all that U238 waste to good use and avoids the cost of looking after it for the next few millennia. General Dynamics and BAE Systems are laughing all the way to the bank.
supersingle said:
Still, it puts all that U238 waste to good use and avoids the cost of looking after it for the next few millennia. General Dynamics and BAE Systems are laughing all the way to the bank.
U238 is fantastically useful really. The 'looking after' it required is not setting fire to and inhaling it.hairykrishna said:
supersingle said:
Still, it puts all that U238 waste to good use and avoids the cost of looking after it for the next few millennia. General Dynamics and BAE Systems are laughing all the way to the bank.
U238 is fantastically useful really. The 'looking after' it required is not setting fire to and inhaling it.supersingle said:
hairykrishna said:
supersingle said:
Still, it puts all that U238 waste to good use and avoids the cost of looking after it for the next few millennia. General Dynamics and BAE Systems are laughing all the way to the bank.
U238 is fantastically useful really. The 'looking after' it required is not setting fire to and inhaling it.MOTORVATOR said:
supersingle said:
hairykrishna said:
supersingle said:
Still, it puts all that U238 waste to good use and avoids the cost of looking after it for the next few millennia. General Dynamics and BAE Systems are laughing all the way to the bank.
U238 is fantastically useful really. The 'looking after' it required is not setting fire to and inhaling it.
The accident at Three Mile Island is often used as an example of how well a nuclear accident can be handled without harming anyone's health. Several posters on here have claimed that TMI has caused zero deaths. In fact, there have been numerous court cases leading to payouts to local residents in relation to loss of business, health effects and birth defects. However, a class action lawsuit against the power plant failed.
The videos below provide a bit of background to the accident. They feature nuclear scientist and insider turned activist Arnie Gundersen and epidemiologist Steve Wing. The gist of it is that releases may have been underestimated by a factor of a hundred times, the local population should have been evacuated earlier and that an epidemiological study has found much higher incidence of cancers in the path of the fallout.
On top of this the supposed good performance at TMI has allowed relaxation of disaster plans in case of future events.
It's a bit dry and the sound is cack but it's interesting nonetheless.
Steve Wing
Arnie Gunderson
The videos below provide a bit of background to the accident. They feature nuclear scientist and insider turned activist Arnie Gundersen and epidemiologist Steve Wing. The gist of it is that releases may have been underestimated by a factor of a hundred times, the local population should have been evacuated earlier and that an epidemiological study has found much higher incidence of cancers in the path of the fallout.
On top of this the supposed good performance at TMI has allowed relaxation of disaster plans in case of future events.
It's a bit dry and the sound is cack but it's interesting nonetheless.
Steve Wing
Arnie Gunderson
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