Can Sir Keir Starmer revive the Labour Party? (Vol. 2)
Discussion
Tankrizzo said:
Disappointing that really isn't it. You could colour that blue and it would look the same as a bunch of Tory policies.
They're barely policies. They're "we support good things" aspirations. And incredibly vague ones at that.Policies would provide tangible answers to questions like:
1) How are you going to deliver economic stability? Is stability different from growth? For whom? To what end?
2) How are NHS waiting times going to be reduced? Increase supply, speed up process or cut demand? Or a mix (what mix?) of all three?
3) What would Border Command actually do? What powers and assets would it have?
4) What is Great British Energy? Nationalisation of the entire energy sector? To do what - lower consumer prices or to ensure renewal and security of energy supply? Including the grid? A generator? A supplier? An arms-length not-for-profit entrant into the existing energy market?
5) How? Massive investment in community facilities, youth programmes, young adult skills and development courses? Roving squadrons of AI-powered Serco-operated Daleks? Or just sending graffiti artists and climate change protestors to prison?
6) How? What will attract these new teachers (1% of the current total...) that is currently failing to do so? At what level? Will this be like the 'new nurses' that were actually just losing fewer nurses from the sector than predicted while the total still went down, or is this 6500 teaching places above current?
A good policy should provide these answers. Or if the policy announcement itself doesn't, the party's overarching ideology should be clear enough that a vaguely informed person can take a pretty good guess as to what form the nuts and bolts would take.
As they stand they're piffle. Utter piffle. Too narrow and specific to be taken as broad visionary missions. Too ephemeral to be actual policies.
About as valuable as Sir Keir's leadership 'pledges'.
anonymoususer said:
Knowing that soon you will be able to carry one of these in your wallets will be fantastic
I think it will really make Sir Keir one of the family and be a reassuring visual reminder that Keir is on your side
Politics is a funny thing and it reminds me of Ed Milliband and his famous "Ed Stone"
If only Ed had decided to put his pledges on a card that folk could keep in their wallets/ purses etc things may have been different.
I like the way he's less sure about his pledges than Milliband.I think it will really make Sir Keir one of the family and be a reassuring visual reminder that Keir is on your side
Politics is a funny thing and it reminds me of Ed Milliband and his famous "Ed Stone"
If only Ed had decided to put his pledges on a card that folk could keep in their wallets/ purses etc things may have been different.
And that the only concrete one to move the dial is to recruit 2/3s as many teachers as the Conservative target for a single year.
It's so depressing that this is the alternative.
Blair's Pledge Card said:
1) Cut class sizes to 30 or under for 5, 6 and 7-year-olds by using money from the assisted places scheme.
2) Fast-track punishment for persistent young offenders by halving the time from arrest to sentencing.
3) Cut NHS waiting lists by treating an extra 100,000 patients as a first step by releasing £100,000,000 saved from NHS red tape.
4) Get 250,000 under-25s off benefits and into work by using money from a windfall levy on the privatised utilities.
5) No rise in income tax rates, cut VAT on heating to 5% and inflation and interest rates as low as possible.
2) Fast-track punishment for persistent young offenders by halving the time from arrest to sentencing.
3) Cut NHS waiting lists by treating an extra 100,000 patients as a first step by releasing £100,000,000 saved from NHS red tape.
4) Get 250,000 under-25s off benefits and into work by using money from a windfall levy on the privatised utilities.
5) No rise in income tax rates, cut VAT on heating to 5% and inflation and interest rates as low as possible.
EdStone said:
1) A strong economic foundation
2) Higher living standards for working families
3) An NHS with the time to care
4) Controls on immigration
5) A country where the next generation can do better than the last
6) Homes to buy and action on rents
2) Higher living standards for working families
3) An NHS with the time to care
4) Controls on immigration
5) A country where the next generation can do better than the last
6) Homes to buy and action on rents
Starmer's Pledges said:
1) Sticking to tough spending rules in order to deliver economic stability
2) Cutting NHS waiting lists by providing 40,000 more appointments each week - funded by tackling tax avoidance and non-dom loopholes.
3) Launching a border security command to stop the gangs arranging small boat crossings
4) Setting up Great British Energy, a publicly owned clean power energy company
5) Providing more neighbourhood police officers to reduce antisocial behaviour and introduced new penalties for offenders
6) Recruiting 6,500 teachers, paid for through ending tax breaks for private schools.
(Healthcare, policing, and teaching only applies to England)
Most of Blair's pledges say "we are going to do this, this is how we are going to do it, this is how you know if we met it", Starmer's is good if you compare it to the EdStone.2) Cutting NHS waiting lists by providing 40,000 more appointments each week - funded by tackling tax avoidance and non-dom loopholes.
3) Launching a border security command to stop the gangs arranging small boat crossings
4) Setting up Great British Energy, a publicly owned clean power energy company
5) Providing more neighbourhood police officers to reduce antisocial behaviour and introduced new penalties for offenders
6) Recruiting 6,500 teachers, paid for through ending tax breaks for private schools.
(Healthcare, policing, and teaching only applies to England)
We have spending rules in place already, but Chancellors can and do move them to suit
Non-dom loopholes have (stupidly) already been closed off by the Tories and money allocated
Border security command needs powers and resources - just printing a new batch of hi viz vests won't do anything
Taxing private school fees will just push those parents into the state system, so we'll need the extra teachers even more desperately but with not much money to pay for it
768 said:
I like the way he's less sure about his pledges than Milliband.
And that the only concrete one to move the dial is to recruit 2/3s as many teachers as the Conservative target for a single year.
It's so depressing that this is the alternative.
It at least prompted me to look up what was on the infamous EdStone:And that the only concrete one to move the dial is to recruit 2/3s as many teachers as the Conservative target for a single year.
It's so depressing that this is the alternative.
A strong economic foundation
Higher living standards for working families
An NHS with the time to care
Controls on immigration
A country where the next generation can do better than the last
Homes to buy and action on rents
Some of these ("A strong economic foundation", "An NHS with the time to care") are also vacuous good-things aspirations.
But "A country where the next generation can do better than the last" serves as a good over-arching mission statement (remember the context of the time when generational prospects had reversed for the first time in modern history). Same for "Higher Living Standards".
"Homes to buy and action on rents" seems positively revolutionary by Starmer standards since it not only promises action on the sacred property market but in doing so also implies that 1) rents are too high and 2) government has the duty and ability to do something about that.
Amazingly, I think Starmer has come up with something more trite and vacuous than the EdStone!
Edit: On seeing Mr Penguin's post above, I've clearly been seeing a 'headline condensed' form of the new pledges, which renders some of my criticisms void. As you were...
Edited by 2xChevrons on Thursday 16th May 11:01
I get the impression that Starmer has decided that a list of 'pledges' is de rigueur as a general election approaches. "Tony did it, Ed did it, even Sunak has done it. Gosh, better get mine done then" being his thinking. "Oh, and I must remember to roll up my shirt sleeves for the photo; you know, look like a serious leader. Don't smile Keir, look serious."
And, as Chevrons notes, these pledges are a load of piffle. That first one, according to Pat McFadden (on LBC this morning) means support for the Treasury, the OBR and the Bank of England. Wow, that's a real vote winner, well played............what about economic growth? I mean, SKS keeps saying that economic growth is vital, but not, it seems, top six vital. Just "stability". Pffft.
Where are the references to housing, defence or taxation policy? "Crack down on antisocial behaviour"; WTAF? And of course there'sform a squad a new Border Security Command.
I know the guy is terrified of his own shadow, but these "First steps for change" are feeble even by his own standards.
And, as Chevrons notes, these pledges are a load of piffle. That first one, according to Pat McFadden (on LBC this morning) means support for the Treasury, the OBR and the Bank of England. Wow, that's a real vote winner, well played............what about economic growth? I mean, SKS keeps saying that economic growth is vital, but not, it seems, top six vital. Just "stability". Pffft.
Where are the references to housing, defence or taxation policy? "Crack down on antisocial behaviour"; WTAF? And of course there's
I know the guy is terrified of his own shadow, but these "First steps for change" are feeble even by his own standards.
President Merkin said:
Anything on lanyards lads?
Lib Dems will be taking that and running with it. Some natty yellow ribbon will make all the difference on the doorstep. Lamination is what wins elections. Greens have carved their pledges into an old pallet, mainly because most museums and galleries don’t allow bags of crusty old chisels past their scanners.
768 said:
anonymoususer said:
Knowing that soon you will be able to carry one of these in your wallets will be fantastic
I think it will really make Sir Keir one of the family and be a reassuring visual reminder that Keir is on your side
Politics is a funny thing and it reminds me of Ed Milliband and his famous "Ed Stone"
If only Ed had decided to put his pledges on a card that folk could keep in their wallets/ purses etc things may have been different.
I like the way he's less sure about his pledges than Milliband.I think it will really make Sir Keir one of the family and be a reassuring visual reminder that Keir is on your side
Politics is a funny thing and it reminds me of Ed Milliband and his famous "Ed Stone"
If only Ed had decided to put his pledges on a card that folk could keep in their wallets/ purses etc things may have been different.
And that the only concrete one to move the dial is to recruit 2/3s as many teachers as the Conservative target for a single year.
It's so depressing that this is the alternative.
The policy of taxing private school fees is bonkers.
As and example the arts in this country will have no new blood moving up. The vast majority of arts schools are private but with scholarship schemes to help those who can't afford the fees. The parents who can aford the fees are not normally the minted type who will be able to pay and extra 20%.
So no talented children from poorer backgrounds will be able to train and get in the ladder most of the schools will close and the ones that survive will be for the very wealthy only, great, progressive result SKS.
How much do the arts generate in the UK towards GDP? Great result financially SKS
If the schools close and there is no tax revenue how do the new teachers get trained?
There was a good article written by a Head Teacher of an arts school in the torygraph a week or too ago, Simon Latter Evans was his name and his view is that his school would close if this tax would coming force.
Still the teachers from the arts schools would be able to staff the new places so long as emplyers want GCSE Tap Dancing as a qualification.
As and example the arts in this country will have no new blood moving up. The vast majority of arts schools are private but with scholarship schemes to help those who can't afford the fees. The parents who can aford the fees are not normally the minted type who will be able to pay and extra 20%.
So no talented children from poorer backgrounds will be able to train and get in the ladder most of the schools will close and the ones that survive will be for the very wealthy only, great, progressive result SKS.
How much do the arts generate in the UK towards GDP? Great result financially SKS
If the schools close and there is no tax revenue how do the new teachers get trained?
There was a good article written by a Head Teacher of an arts school in the torygraph a week or too ago, Simon Latter Evans was his name and his view is that his school would close if this tax would coming force.
Still the teachers from the arts schools would be able to staff the new places so long as emplyers want GCSE Tap Dancing as a qualification.
gruffalo said:
As and example the arts in this country will have no new blood moving up. The vast majority of arts schools are private but with scholarship schemes to help those who can't afford the fees. The parents who can aford the fees are not normally the minted type who will be able to pay and extra 20%.
So no talented children from poorer backgrounds will be able to train and get in the ladder most of the schools will close and the ones that survive will be for the very wealthy only, great, progressive result SKS.
People in the media are overwhelmingly from the middle class, something ridiculous like half of them went to private school and nepotism is rife; the system is hideously conservative and effectively ignores the entire working class. Feel free to defend it though.So no talented children from poorer backgrounds will be able to train and get in the ladder most of the schools will close and the ones that survive will be for the very wealthy only, great, progressive result SKS.
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff