CV19 - Cure Worse Than The Disease? (Vol 18)

[ruggedscotty]

+1 more on pneumothorax return

and good to see a few others still here.....

[V1nce Fox]

Very welcome back, Pneumothorax.

[Vanden Saab]

Biker 1 said:

johnboy1975 said:

Possibly GB News or Talk TV would be interested, no idea how you'd go about that, other than DMs to notable presenters such as Mark Steyn (is he back, or does he do his own podcast?), Neil Oliver or JHB.

Could be tricky, GB News are apparently telling porkies according to the BEEB/ofcom: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-6486...

Interesting that the beeb do not mention te lack of fine or other sanction.

[bern]

pneumothorax said:

This new development has prompted me to re-engage with this thread and nothing in these leaked communication's surprised me in the slightest. I am alive and well, and I am not vaccinated for anyone who was worried.

My take on this is from a strictly medical perspective. What we did, and what we were told to do went against everything that I was trained to do when I got in to my game. We quarantined fit/well people and isolated the sick and actively dying and this is not something that has precedent in medical history. We palliated people who were not ready to go, we managed hypoxic Patients over phones and we denied Patient's hospital assessments.

The further I get from it, the more unreal it seems.

And, yep, I am going to be making my thoughts clear to the public enquiry , whenever it happens. I have a number of personal recollections that would I am sure move anyone on here suggesting "lets just carry on" to reconsider their position.

Great to see you back!

[MaxFromage]

Welcome back pneumothorax.

I'd put COVID to the back of my mind pretty much, but the latest (unsurprising) developments have brought it all back. The NHS killed my father and many others I know, through lack of interest, incompetence or direction by Government. In the NHS, I came across employees going above and beyond, utterly exceptional, and others who appeared to have no care whether their patients lived or died.

I take no pride in saying I hope I never meet MH, as I would literally bury the guy.

[Biker 1]

MaxFromage said:

Welcome back pneumothorax.


I take no pride in saying I hope I never meet MH, as I would literally bury the guy.

I'm amazed he hasn't gone into hiding or left the country in disguise! I'm guessing his security detail has been beefed up - there are a lot of VERY angry people seemingly after him.....

[chris watton]

MaxFromage said:

Welcome back pneumothorax.

I'd put COVID to the back of my mind pretty much, but the latest (unsurprising) developments have brought it all back. The NHS killed my father and many others I know, through lack of interest, incompetence or direction by Government. In the NHS, I came across employees going above and beyond, utterly exceptional, and others who appeared to have no care whether their patients lived or died.

I take no pride in saying I hope I never meet MH, as I would literally bury the guy.

It is very sad what we have allowed to pass. In other times, the whole stinking lot would have been tried for treason against the very people they are meant to serve.

Instead, we have that complete narcissist MH paraded on crappy reality dirge, in effect, celebrating this!

And still we have detritus on here saying it's all no big deal. Are these real people, I wonder.

[BabySharkDD]

Biker 1 said:

MaxFromage said:

Welcome back pneumothorax.


I take no pride in saying I hope I never meet MH, as I would literally bury the guy.

I'm amazed he hasn't gone into hiding or left the country in disguise! I'm guessing his security detail has been beefed up - there are a lot of VERY angry people seemingly after him.....

Hopefully the cretin is experiencing a lot of fear. He didn’t give a st about inflicting it on the country.

[Biker 1]

BabySharkDD said:

Hopefully the cretin is experiencing a lot of fear. He didn’t give a st about inflicting it on the country.

I don't normally wish ill to people, but in this case......

[Grumps.]

chris watton said:

MaxFromage said:

Welcome back pneumothorax.

I'd put COVID to the back of my mind pretty much, but the latest (unsurprising) developments have brought it all back. The NHS killed my father and many others I know, through lack of interest, incompetence or direction by Government. In the NHS, I came across employees going above and beyond, utterly exceptional, and others who appeared to have no care whether their patients lived or died.

I take no pride in saying I hope I never meet MH, as I would literally bury the guy.

It is very sad what we have allowed to pass. In other times, the whole stinking lot would have been tried for treason against the very people they are meant to serve.

Instead, we have that complete narcissist MH paraded on crappy reality dirge, in effect, celebrating this!

And still we have detritus on here saying it's all no big deal. Are these real people, I wonder.

Detritus?

[superlightr]

its not just him.

Its clear that the medical advisors CMO etc were saying one thing and MH wanting another thing yet the CMO still went on TV to push what MH wanted and to put the fear of God into us all and lie to us. Where are the SAGE reports on all of this - the discussions?

[chris watton]

Grumps. said:

Detritus?

You're right, the description is too soft, but as it's a public forum, I figured I'd tone down what I really think of those who do nothing but try and gaslight others on here.

How's that?

Edited by chris watton on Tuesday 7th March 15:47

[Biker 1]

superlightr said:

its not just him.

Its clear that the medical advisors CMO etc were saying one thing and MH wanting another thing yet the CMO still went on TV to push what MH wanted and to put the fear of God into us all and lie to us. Where are the SAGE reports on all of this - the discussions?

I too would like answers.

What I don't understand is that many countries were doing lockdowns & all the other stuff more or less like here. Did they all have their own versions of sage, wkcock etc, or were their governments taking cues from our illustrious leadership as they judged us as 'world leaders'? Was there a hotline to Imperial College?

[M1AGM]

Biker 1 said:

I too would like answers.

What I don't understand is that many countries were doing lockdowns & all the other stuff more or less like here. Did they all have their own versions of sage, wkcock etc, or were their governments taking cues from our illustrious leadership as they judged us as 'world leaders'? Was there a hotline to Imperial College?

Thats a good question.

My POV is that the more competent politicians listened to the WHO advice (which we know now was (and still is) flawed in many ways), saw the China 'dropping dead on the streets', the Lombardy situation, and took the 'least worst option' at the time to remain a) popular and re-electable, and b) not kill too many voters. What has transpired is that the 'least worst option' wasn't that at all because it was based on wrong information/assumptions/conclusions about the virus, and fear. Adding in that social media is global, and was heavy on censoring anything that didn't follow the WHO narrative, the populist view was to follow the guidance without question. Once countries started following the Italy lockdown and NPIs it became a domino effect, of wanting to stand with the crowd rather than be an outlier, which for a politician would be risky.

I can see how it happened. What is tragic and unacceptable is at no point did anyone review things and take a fresh look at the facts/data, instead it was a game of doubling down at every turn using the same flawed principles.

[superlightr]

M1AGM said:

Biker 1 said:

I too would like answers.

What I don't understand is that many countries were doing lockdowns & all the other stuff more or less like here. Did they all have their own versions of sage, wkcock etc, or were their governments taking cues from our illustrious leadership as they judged us as 'world leaders'? Was there a hotline to Imperial College?

Thats a good question.

My POV is that the more competent politicians listened to the WHO advice (which we know now was (and still is) flawed in many ways), saw the China 'dropping dead on the streets', the Lombardy situation, and took the 'least worst option' at the time to remain a) popular and re-electable, and b) not kill too many voters. What has transpired is that the 'least worst option' wasn't that at all because it was based on wrong information/assumptions/conclusions about the virus, and fear. Adding in that social media is global, and was heavy on censoring anything that didn't follow the WHO narrative, the populist view was to follow the guidance without question. Once countries started following the Italy lockdown and NPIs it became a domino effect, of wanting to stand with the crowd rather than be an outlier, which for a politician would be risky.

I can see how it happened. What is tragic and unacceptable is at no point did anyone review things and take a fresh look at the facts/data, instead it was a game of doubling down at every turn using the same flawed principles.

I would agree - I think thats what happened at the start. BUT It was suspected from early on as per the leaks only the vulnerable/high risk should shield and certainly by lockdown 2 it was known there was "negligible " risk ie zero to young people yet they still continued against their own expert advice. ie test/moniter for 5 days rather than isolation for 14 days etc.

[Elysium]

pneumothorax said:

I am going to ask Elysium for advice. Also I keep bumping into Jeremy Hunt when walking the dog, hopefully he can give me a direction...

Glad to see you back and I’d be happy to help if I can.

Reflecting on it all three years later I thing the real problems came after the initial panic. The failed reopening in summer 2020, the circuit breaker, the ridiculous tiers system and most significantly the Jan 2021 lockdown.

It was all cheap gimmicks and doubling down to hide the original mistakes. That’s what I take from the leaked messages. Confirmation it was all about what was easy or most popular for the politicians. In dereliction of their duty to us.

It’s going to take years to unravel. But I feel more confident that we will learn from it than I did a year ago.

[isaldiri]

Elysium said:

But I feel more confident that we will learn from it than I did a year ago.

What's changed vs this time last year?

[Elysium]

isaldiri said:

Elysium said:

But I feel more confident that we will learn from it than I did a year ago.

What's changed vs this time last year?

It’s almost exactly a year since all COVID a rules were finally brought to an end:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_CO...

Despite all attempts the zero COVID lunatics have been unable to scare us into permanently changing our lives. We are properly back to normal.

Slowly but surely people are starting to reject the madness and this expose of Hancock and others really matters.

I wasn’t sure we would get here. But I am damn glad we have.

[jameswills]

I’m not confident at all, this is just the beginning, we are learning nothing. This pandemic chapter just allowed them to accelerate the next nonsense that is going to restrict our lives even further beyond the last 3 years in net zero. In the middle of an apparent deadly virus pandemic, our Prime Minister brought forward the petrol car ban. We forget this, he did that in Nov 2020.

Cash is disappearing fast. 15 minute cities, CBDCs, all linked to eco policy of net zero. I’m probably in a negative mood today, and although I’m very pleased with the leaked messages and finally there are a few more waking up, but I fear we’re quite far down the road now, might be too far to turn it around.

[isaldiri]

Elysium said:

Slowly but surely people are starting to reject the madness and this expose of Hancock and others really matters. .

Have to disagree I'm afraid. If anything, this time last year after the complete failure of the 'modelling' to have manifested in anything like the sage scenarios presented in Dec2021 and the extremely grudging rescinding of the compulsory vaccine requirement for NHS/care home staff by Javid, I was a lot more confident that perhaps there might be a closer look at the decision making processes underlying to government decisions.

Events in Ukraine and the ease that which governments have blithely committed us to various things with little to no public discussion of the cost/benefits have of course overtaken covid as the most immediately pressing matter (well other than the slightly high inflation situation)....the Hancock leaks are a treasure trove of gossipy tittle tattle but nothing has realistically come anywhere close to changing the dial as to 'rejecting the madness'. Stirring up public loathing of the self serving behaviour of Hancock/Case et al, however much deserved, isn't actually going to be leading to a more open minded public discussion of the costs/benefits of (probably equally bad) pandemic optimisation problems.