The Future of Power Generation in Great Britain
Discussion
rolando said:
When It’s Windy, You Get More Wind Power
Stating the bleeding obvious as to be expected from the BBC.
Back in 2014, National Grid paid far more to non-wind sources to stop generation ( https://www.theguardian.com/business/2014/apr/03/g... ) . Does anyone know how payments compared since then?Stating the bleeding obvious as to be expected from the BBC.
Article said:
Of course, what is good news for the BBC and wind farms is bad news for the public. The more wind power is produced, the greater are the subsidies handed out to wind farm operators.
In just that single day, electricity consumers have had to pay £9.8 million in subsidies.
On top of that, wind farm operators are paid to switch off when there is too much wind power about. Last year, according to REF figures *, this cost consumers an extra £108 million.
But don’t expect the BBC to tell you any of that!
In just that single day, electricity consumers have had to pay £9.8 million in subsidies.
On top of that, wind farm operators are paid to switch off when there is too much wind power about. Last year, according to REF figures *, this cost consumers an extra £108 million.
But don’t expect the BBC to tell you any of that!
- Average price for constraint payments to stop wind so far this year = an eye watering £112/MWh. Talk about a rip-off.
Paddy_N_Murphy said:
Even the Daily Mail seems to be softening its stance..... / changing horses.
Although great use of the 'Subsidised' in the Headline :
Subsidised wind farms have produced more electricity than coal plants for three quarters of this year
Rolando, this won't be of any use to you or TurboBloke - it is less than a month old.
Revisit it in 6 years time and wave it around
"British wind farms were more efficient than coal plants for three quarters of this year". Really? No. Coal plants have been shut down and dispatchable supply transferred to gas, another fossil fuel. Wind turbines just happened to work when the weather was right for them. The rest of the time they didn't.Although great use of the 'Subsidised' in the Headline :
Subsidised wind farms have produced more electricity than coal plants for three quarters of this year
Rolando, this won't be of any use to you or TurboBloke - it is less than a month old.
Revisit it in 6 years time and wave it around
…and, tell me what technologies are counted as renewables?
Paddy_N_Murphy said:
Even the Daily Mail seems to be softening its stance..... / changing horses.
Although great use of the 'Subsidised' in the Headline :
Subsidised wind farms have produced more electricity than coal plants for three quarters of this year
Rolando, this won't be of any use to you or TurboBloke - it is less than a month old.
Revisit it in 6 years time and wave it around
Err coal-powered plants have been shut-down mostly - those remaining still show windy the way that things should be done.Although great use of the 'Subsidised' in the Headline :
Subsidised wind farms have produced more electricity than coal plants for three quarters of this year
Rolando, this won't be of any use to you or TurboBloke - it is less than a month old.
Revisit it in 6 years time and wave it around
Looking forward to Paddy's square wheel and explaining why it may not catch on.
Ali G said:
MYOB said:
Ali G said:
Displacement of water via island building thereby raising sea-levels...
Seriously? How much do you think sea-levels will rise from creating this small island where there's shallow waters?Whoosh - Norwegian Blue I reckon.
This link offers an article written by an Actuary that, in my view, has content related to the title of this thread.
Not all of it, perhaps, but a lot of it.
A theme of the author's discussions are how energy fits into economics and who the main consumers of energy - the core consumers, not the headline over consumers - might be, together with how much they can afford to pay (in broad terms) as the economic influences evolve.
I found it interesting to go through a number of the articles but I worked backwards through them. I think the whole thought process makes more sense going forwards and this seems to be a reasonable starting point so I commend it to all.
https://ourfiniteworld.com/2017/10/01/why-politica...
Enjoy.
Or not.
Not all of it, perhaps, but a lot of it.
A theme of the author's discussions are how energy fits into economics and who the main consumers of energy - the core consumers, not the headline over consumers - might be, together with how much they can afford to pay (in broad terms) as the economic influences evolve.
I found it interesting to go through a number of the articles but I worked backwards through them. I think the whole thought process makes more sense going forwards and this seems to be a reasonable starting point so I commend it to all.
https://ourfiniteworld.com/2017/10/01/why-politica...
Enjoy.
Or not.
Toltec said:
I found this thread fairly recently, my interest is in having a power generation and distribution infrastructure that will balance the needs of society and the environment. Eventually we should stop burning fossil fuels, preferably well before they become scarce and leave us in a panicked rush to find replacements. Wind and solar backed by CCGTs are a quick and dirty interim solution to possibly* reduce pollution, not long term plan, pushed through for political reasons imho.
Mainly here for information and cool engineering, but not either for the status quo or the renewable nirvana. I'd like it cheap, clean and reliable, but as usual I guess I can only pick two...
* There are so many conflicting sources of information on whether this is cheaper, less polluting or less CO2 overall it is hard to tell and it is difficult not to fall for confirmation bias.
But we have at least 300 years before domestic fossil fuels could become exhausted, so it's ONLY CO2 emissions and polution that can justify switching to renewables.Mainly here for information and cool engineering, but not either for the status quo or the renewable nirvana. I'd like it cheap, clean and reliable, but as usual I guess I can only pick two...
* There are so many conflicting sources of information on whether this is cheaper, less polluting or less CO2 overall it is hard to tell and it is difficult not to fall for confirmation bias.
Wind does work, it's intermittent and the current AGR fleet can't handle that so gas fills in, but there is no real reason why a future grid can't use a mix of new nuclear and wind.
I dislike onshore wind as I personally hate their look in the countryside, but have no problem with offshore wind.
But, it would have been cheaper to stick with coal.
So is CO2 a problem.
There is the big question
Something from the British Geological Society dating back to 2010.
https://www.bgs.ac.uk/downloads/start.cfm?id=1354
Doesn't appear to be partisan and covers pros and cons of UK coal quality.
It looks unlikely that development of further deep mines would be economic without expansion and commitment to further coal-powered generation, although there appears to be a lot still there - extending under the North Sea too unsurprisingly. In part this will be due to policies signed up to by politicians to limit CO2 production which would require carbon capture raising cost of new plants.
Preference for power generation is similar to choosing which poison is tolerable - they all have nasty habits!
https://www.bgs.ac.uk/downloads/start.cfm?id=1354
Doesn't appear to be partisan and covers pros and cons of UK coal quality.
It looks unlikely that development of further deep mines would be economic without expansion and commitment to further coal-powered generation, although there appears to be a lot still there - extending under the North Sea too unsurprisingly. In part this will be due to policies signed up to by politicians to limit CO2 production which would require carbon capture raising cost of new plants.
Preference for power generation is similar to choosing which poison is tolerable - they all have nasty habits!
A bit more background on the Hitach-GE ABW reactor proposed for UK deployment. Note that it is not guaranteed to go ahead, since there will have to be many more rounds of political ping-pong to be played other than design sign off in principle.
http://euanmearns.com/the-hitachi-advanced-boiling...
http://euanmearns.com/the-hitachi-advanced-boiling...
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