Reform UK - A symptom of all that is wrong?
Discussion
crankedup5 said:
‘comparatively generous’ to whom and what ? I’m not sure what you are attempting to suggest. Put some. numbers up and demonstrate your point perhaps. And who is ‘her’ ?
And I still haven’t heard or read of pensioners moaning about their pensions.
Didn't WASPI moan about their pensions alot?And I still haven’t heard or read of pensioners moaning about their pensions.
Randy Winkman said:
Isn't the issue that some people are thinking about economics (eg during covid) and others about "woke" stuff?
That is likely the case, but the Conservative party historically was not at the forefront of progressive change. There is also no demonstrable "shift to the right" since the idealised days of the nineties. If we take gay rights for example then the modern Conservative party brought in gay marriage and the one that ended in 1997 still had Section 28 in schools. Now I happen to support gay marriage, but just illustrating that "recollections may differ" on changes to the party since 1997. To take other aspects of social policy as well then the Major government was firm on law and order, and had a "prison works" policy that sharply increased the numbers in prison. Net migration was also low in 1992-1997 ( as it was throughout 1979-97).
The Conservative party has been apparently "lurching to the right" for 25 years but has somehow mysteriously transitioned from a genuinely Conservative party to a Blairite one during the same time frame.
Where some seem to be coming from is the lack of nuance so often seen on the likes of Twitter. You either embrace Critical Race Theory or you are a racist. You must eagerly accept children transitioning or you are a bigot. Etc, and Etc.
crankedup5 said:
TTwiggy said:
crankedup5 said:
No joking involved when the terminology involves Nazi however you want to dress it up or excuse it
Just don’t go there.
Get a grip. This isn’t Germany and we’ve been laughing at Nazis since 1945.Just don’t go there.
The Nazis snd Hitler have been used as references for jokes ever since and indeed during the war.
There was a fairly recent film called Jo Jo Rabbit, don’t watch that if using the Nazis as comedic references offends you. It’s a fabulous film by the way.
JagLover said:
Randy Winkman said:
Isn't the issue that some people are thinking about economics (eg during covid) and others about "woke" stuff?
That is likely the case, but the Conservative party historically was not at the forefront of progressive change. There is also no demonstrable "shift to the right" since the idealised days of the nineties. If we take gay rights for example then the modern Conservative party brought in gay marriage and the one that ended in 1997 still had Section 28 in schools. Now I happen to support gay marriage, but just illustrating that "recollections may differ" on changes to the party since 1997. To take other aspects of social policy as well then the Major government was firm on law and order, and had a "prison works" policy that sharply increased the numbers in prison. Net migration was also low in 1992-1997 ( as it was throughout 1979-97).
The Conservative party has been apparently "lurching to the right" for 25 years but has somehow mysteriously transitioned from a genuinely Conservative party to a Blairite one during the same time frame.
Where some seem to be coming from is the lack of nuance so often seen on the likes of Twitter. You either embrace Critical Race Theory or you are a racist. You must eagerly accept children transitioning or you are a bigot. Etc, and Etc.
JagLover said:
That is likely the case, but the Conservative party historically was not at the forefront of progressive change. There is also no demonstrable "shift to the right" since the idealised days of the nineties. If we take gay rights for example then the modern Conservative party brought in gay marriage and the one that ended in 1997 still had Section 28 in schools. Now I happen to support gay marriage, but just illustrating that "recollections may differ" on changes to the party since 1997.
To take other aspects of social policy as well then the Major government was firm on law and order, and had a "prison works" policy that sharply increased the numbers in prison. Net migration was also low in 1992-1997 ( as it was throughout 1979-97).
The Conservative party has been apparently "lurching to the right" for 25 years but has somehow mysteriously transitioned from a genuinely Conservative party to a Blairite one during the same time frame.
Where some seem to be coming from is the lack of nuance so often seen on the likes of Twitter. You either embrace Critical Race Theory or you are a racist. You must eagerly accept children transitioning or you are a bigot. Etc, and Etc.
Gay marriage was 10 years (and 4 PMs!!) ago. The talk about immigration, Rwanda etc is there, their incompetence doesn't mean they're cuddly centrists.To take other aspects of social policy as well then the Major government was firm on law and order, and had a "prison works" policy that sharply increased the numbers in prison. Net migration was also low in 1992-1997 ( as it was throughout 1979-97).
The Conservative party has been apparently "lurching to the right" for 25 years but has somehow mysteriously transitioned from a genuinely Conservative party to a Blairite one during the same time frame.
Where some seem to be coming from is the lack of nuance so often seen on the likes of Twitter. You either embrace Critical Race Theory or you are a racist. You must eagerly accept children transitioning or you are a bigot. Etc, and Etc.
President Merkin said:
Yep, none of the lurching rightwards I at least refer to took place under Cameron or May. That doesn't mean it hasn't happened, it merely means JL is being highly selective in the timeframe they chose.
Are we forgetting T May's 'hostile environment' 
Or are we so triggered by Boris we have forgotten?
JagLover said:
That is likely the case, but the Conservative party historically was not at the forefront of progressive change. There is also no demonstrable "shift to the right" since the idealised days of the nineties. If we take gay rights for example then the modern Conservative party brought in gay marriage and the one that ended in 1997 still had Section 28 in schools. Now I happen to support gay marriage, but just illustrating that "recollections may differ" on changes to the party since 1997.
To take other aspects of social policy as well then the Major government was firm on law and order, and had a "prison works" policy that sharply increased the numbers in prison. Net migration was also low in 1992-1997 ( as it was throughout 1979-97).
The Conservative party has been apparently "lurching to the right" for 25 years but has somehow mysteriously transitioned from a genuinely Conservative party to a Blairite one during the same time frame.
Where some seem to be coming from is the lack of nuance so often seen on the likes of Twitter. You either embrace Critical Race Theory or you are a racist. You must eagerly accept children transitioning or you are a bigot. Etc, and Etc.
Precisely.To take other aspects of social policy as well then the Major government was firm on law and order, and had a "prison works" policy that sharply increased the numbers in prison. Net migration was also low in 1992-1997 ( as it was throughout 1979-97).
The Conservative party has been apparently "lurching to the right" for 25 years but has somehow mysteriously transitioned from a genuinely Conservative party to a Blairite one during the same time frame.
Where some seem to be coming from is the lack of nuance so often seen on the likes of Twitter. You either embrace Critical Race Theory or you are a racist. You must eagerly accept children transitioning or you are a bigot. Etc, and Etc.
Judge them on their actions. Under this government, we now have a progressive, anti nationalist, hate-speech ridden, open-bordered welfare state that is as soft as I've ever seen it...and yet they're lurching to the right?!
Pull the other one...
If anyone thinks they're 'lurching to the right' because they made some desperate, empty and transparent promises to their right wing base they know they are losing (due to the jump to the left).....then as I said before, you need to get out of your media bubble because you're not living in the real world.
Edited by Dagnir on Wednesday 10th April 08:49
Dagnir said:
If anyone thinks they're 'lurching to the right' because they made some desperate, empty and transparent promises to their right wing base they know they are losing (due to the jump to the left).....then as I said before, you need to get out of your media bubble because you're not living in the real world.
Rwanda is a meaningless charade and they know it. On top of a being an empty gesture to try and limit illegal migration it is also intended to try and move the conversation away from the massive increase in legal migration that was by deliberate design. chrispmartha said:
crankedup5 said:
TTwiggy said:
crankedup5 said:
No joking involved when the terminology involves Nazi however you want to dress it up or excuse it
Just don’t go there.
Get a grip. This isn’t Germany and we’ve been laughing at Nazis since 1945.Just don’t go there.
The Nazis snd Hitler have been used as references for jokes ever since and indeed during the war.
There was a fairly recent film called Jo Jo Rabbit, don’t watch that if using the Nazis as comedic references offends you. It’s a fabulous film by the way.
JagLover said:
Rwanda is a meaningless charade and they know it. On top of a being an empty gesture to try and limit illegal migration it is also intended to try and move the conversation away from the massive increase in legal migration that was by deliberate design.
Oh of course it is. The exact same play they've made several times before. It's laughably obvious at this stage....and yet there's still people on here that insist they are close to being far right etc...
Utterly bonkers.
JagLover said:
That is likely the case, but the Conservative party historically was not at the forefront of progressive change. There is also no demonstrable "shift to the right" since the idealised days of the nineties. If we take gay rights for example then the modern Conservative party brought in gay marriage and the one that ended in 1997 still had Section 28 in schools. Now I happen to support gay marriage, but just illustrating that "recollections may differ" on changes to the party since 1997.
To take other aspects of social policy as well then the Major government was firm on law and order, and had a "prison works" policy that sharply increased the numbers in prison. Net migration was also low in 1992-1997 ( as it was throughout 1979-97).
The Conservative party has been apparently "lurching to the right" for 25 years but has somehow mysteriously transitioned from a genuinely Conservative party to a Blairite one during the same time frame.
Where some seem to be coming from is the lack of nuance so often seen on the likes of Twitter. You either embrace Critical Race Theory or you are a racist. You must eagerly accept children transitioning or you are a bigot. Etc, and Etc.
I think you are both right and wrong. To take other aspects of social policy as well then the Major government was firm on law and order, and had a "prison works" policy that sharply increased the numbers in prison. Net migration was also low in 1992-1997 ( as it was throughout 1979-97).
The Conservative party has been apparently "lurching to the right" for 25 years but has somehow mysteriously transitioned from a genuinely Conservative party to a Blairite one during the same time frame.
Where some seem to be coming from is the lack of nuance so often seen on the likes of Twitter. You either embrace Critical Race Theory or you are a racist. You must eagerly accept children transitioning or you are a bigot. Etc, and Etc.
Much of the social liberalism was under Cameron's watch. The cost to him was to allow voices on the right of the party more airspace and ultimately, Brexit ( not to get into a Brexit thread per se).
A look at the gay marriage vote and it is a case of the usual suspects.
Also, bear in mind the first term was a coalition government, the second was when the right wing japery really started....
Oilchange said:
It all seems very convenient and glib to refer to the Tories as Nazis and then laugh it off as if it's nothing.
Not that I'll be voting for the bunch of useless fecks...
It was actually referencing the fact that some people like to claim the Nazis were left wing, because they had ‘socialist’ in their name.Not that I'll be voting for the bunch of useless fecks...
Clearly my humour is too subtle for some.
Killboy said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
Killboy said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
Exactly, just as we can all laugh at those, who actually believe that labour are the answer to the countries problems.
Is Reform the answer to the country's problems?
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