Making Tax Digital
Discussion
I wouldn't say "nothing" but certainly the plans that were extant up until July 2017 are now well and truly deferred indefinitely.
There certainly was plenty to worry about but I am sure the pressure and concerns brought to bear on HM<RC by professional bodies and trade associations had a lot to do with the ultimate deferment of these grandiose plans. Brexit was also something that was bound to cuase tax related problems.
However, it's main purpose is to now provide HMRC with a face saving excuse for giving up on extensive digital transformation programmes for the time being.
There certainly was plenty to worry about but I am sure the pressure and concerns brought to bear on HM<RC by professional bodies and trade associations had a lot to do with the ultimate deferment of these grandiose plans. Brexit was also something that was bound to cuase tax related problems.
However, it's main purpose is to now provide HMRC with a face saving excuse for giving up on extensive digital transformation programmes for the time being.
MTD for companies regarding quarterly submission of trading figures was originally intended to be introduced around two years after the system for sole traders, partnerships and landlords. Since the latter has been deferred until 2020 at the very earliest, I am pretty sure that limited company quarterly submissions would not be implemented until after April 2022 or so.
Personally, I actually think it will not be happening at all now.
Personally, I actually think it will not be happening at all now.
It's been quite a traumatic three years for accounting and tax professionals.
What is so frustrating is that all the pitfalls and problems associated with these overly ambitious programmes that HMRC has now recognised were pointed out to them almost from the beginning.
I have no doubt that, some day, we will conduct our entire lives using digital technology - and filing tax returns and keeping our lords and masters fully up to speed on what we do every day will be part of the digitised life.
However, as far as tax matters are concerned, I am pretty sure now that we will not be seeing this form of digital intrusiveness for a few more years yet.
What is so frustrating is that all the pitfalls and problems associated with these overly ambitious programmes that HMRC has now recognised were pointed out to them almost from the beginning.
I have no doubt that, some day, we will conduct our entire lives using digital technology - and filing tax returns and keeping our lords and masters fully up to speed on what we do every day will be part of the digitised life.
However, as far as tax matters are concerned, I am pretty sure now that we will not be seeing this form of digital intrusiveness for a few more years yet.
jammy-git said:
Rovinghawk said:
Eric Mc said:
I
However, as far as tax matters are concerned, I am pretty sure now that we will not be seeing this form of digital intrusiveness for a few more years yet.
Thank you for the information throughout the thread.However, as far as tax matters are concerned, I am pretty sure now that we will not be seeing this form of digital intrusiveness for a few more years yet.
The issue is nothing to do with the use of digital technology (I and many of my clients use it extensively). It's about how GOVERNMENT tries to force us to jump to their tune and ignore completely the needs and requirements of those who pay their wages i.e. the taxpayers.
Luckily, my (and many others') contention from Day 1 that this was a fiasco in the making has finally dawned on the Whitehall Mandarins and they are backing up on their overly ambitious plans.
plasticpig said:
Eric Mc said:
MTD for companies regarding quarterly submission of trading figures was originally intended to be introduced around two years after the system for sole traders, partnerships and landlords. Since the latter has been deferred until 2020 at the very earliest, I am pretty sure that limited company quarterly submissions would not be implemented until after April 2022 or so.
Personally, I actually think it will not be happening at all now.
It's going to be implemented more quickly than that. Voluntary submission of supplementary data is in the MTD VAT notice. So I would suggest April 2020 or 2021 for it to become mandatory. Personally, I actually think it will not be happening at all now.
The VAT MTD is going ahead (for the moment). I expect it will be in place for April 2019 although there are some worrying signs already.
HMRC has just announced that they are not in a position to go ahead with MTD for everything else - even for 2020. Just because somebody passes a piece of legislation does not mean the legislation can be implemented. MTD is more than just a change of rules. It is a change of INFRASTRUCTURE that EVERY taxpayer in the land has to get on board with.
It's the tax equivalent of telling everybody that, from some fixed date a couple of years down the road, you can only drive electric vehicles and, not only that, you will not be ALLOWED to drive a petrol/diesel vehicle.
That's how fundamental this whole project was. It's just too much in the timescales that HMRC proposed - and they have finally recognised this.
PurpleMoonlight said:
JagLover said:
depends on what sort of package you need.
Xero is £22 a month, which includes a bank feed.
Sage line 50 cloud based is £20 a month. You can buy a one machine licence that would work out cheaper overall but would need to be careful it complied with MTD.
£264 pa just to file a VAT return which currently costs £0?Xero is £22 a month, which includes a bank feed.
Sage line 50 cloud based is £20 a month. You can buy a one machine licence that would work out cheaper overall but would need to be careful it complied with MTD.
You can see why the software industry loves this plan.
PurpleMoonlight said:
Eric Mc said:
Great, isn't it.
You can see why the software industry loves this plan.
And some fools think that brexit will allow the government to reduce red tape and costs.You can see why the software industry loves this plan.
HMRC wants to shut down their current on-line VAT return system. They want to replace it with a system where every VAT registered trader has to buy specific book-keeping and accounting software from a commercial supplier and file their VAT returns directly from that software.
At the moment, the system is set to become compulsory on 1 April 2019 although VAT traders who have a turnover under £85,000 per annum can stay on the old system. This concession will not be kept forever.
At the moment, the system is set to become compulsory on 1 April 2019 although VAT traders who have a turnover under £85,000 per annum can stay on the old system. This concession will not be kept forever.
PurpleMoonlight said:
Any guess how long?
I file 20 odd pension scheme vat returns, only 2 are over the threshold though thankfully.
The year 2020 was mentioned. Thy aren't being very clear because they have to wait for the system to bed in.I file 20 odd pension scheme vat returns, only 2 are over the threshold though thankfully.
Your accountant should be talking to you about these changes.
Dromedary66 said:
As a 1 person Ltd it's going to be quite galling to have to buy some software to submit a VAT return 4 times per year. I currently just use the HMRC form, fairly simple and quick for my basic requirements.
One word - tough.This is only the beginning. Before too long, all submissions to HMRC will be on this basis.
Sole traders, landlords and partnerships were supposed to have switched to an MTD system for Income Tax by 6 April this year. This has been deferred but VAT is happening.
ninja-lewis said:
No earlier than April 2020. MTDfB for Income Tax is already available on a voluntary basis and could be extended to taxpayers earning less than £85,000.
There's also the prospect of the VAT threshold being lowered from 2020 to bring most businesses into VAT and effectively eliminate the threshold effect.
I think the lowering of the VAT threshold would have been included in the November 17 budget if it hadn't been for the introduction of MTD for VAT. I'm sure Hammond felt that it would be too much to announce that those under the VAT threshold (but still VAT registered) could avoid moving to VAT MTD - and then announce that they were lowering that threshold.There's also the prospect of the VAT threshold being lowered from 2020 to bring most businesses into VAT and effectively eliminate the threshold effect.
PurpleMoonlight said:
Eric Mc said:
But that would cost the Exchequer. The whole point of MTD is NOT to spend government money.
It will cost the Exchequer anyway, if every business has to pay £240 pa for software it will reduce their profit for corporation tax.PurpleMoonlight said:
Eric Mc said:
An awful lot of the businesses affected are not limited companies.
But they still likely pay tax and this will be an expense of the business, no?In the big scheme of things, the additional hassle of having to install and learn new software will be more of a cost to the business than the actual software cost.
Most businesses would prefer not to have the cost in the first place. It's all well and good saving some tax. I'd prefer to not spend £240 in the first place than spend £240 in order to save £40 - £50 approx.in tax.
PurpleMoonlight said:
The point was that it is not a free amendment for HMRC. It could cost £40 per vat registered business affected.
It might have been cheaper to offer something simple for free, like they do for PAYE.
Expect that to end some time as well.It might have been cheaper to offer something simple for free, like they do for PAYE.
It's also ending for Self Assessment and Corporation Tax.
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