Snap General Election Tomorrow

[oyster]

AshVX220 said:

FFS read and understand the UKIP Manifesto, instead of towing the "One trick pony" line.

They have more credible idea's about fixing the economy than the other parties put together, they understand how to get the deficit down and the economy moving for a start.

And no, the public sector does not = the economy.

I've seen their ideas and there's a lot of very expensive, un-costed ideas on there.

I cannot believe they are suggesting they can fund them all just by not paying the UK's subs to the EU. Remember, some of those subs we get back, so the net contribution may only be a few £bn.

[oyster]

0a said:

speedy_thrills said:

They are exceptions and exceptional. I can't think of anywhere UKIP is close to a seat or anyone UKIP has that could win a seat. Even in the target seat of Buckingham where Farage himself stood he didn't even make half of the votes he needed.

UKIP acts as the conscience of the Tories and they have/will have a big impact on UK politics by allowing Tories to register their unhappiness with the pro-EU, anti-business, high tax/spend Tory policies.

The benefit of sending this message via a UKIP vote is, in my opinion, now more than the disadvantage of Labour government getting elected given how similar the two parties are in the areas mentioned above. Labour are unlikely to be able to spend any more than the Tories are already given our debt levels - it would be IMF bailout time (with mandated spending cuts - perhaps not a bad thing).

It will be interesting to watch how this plays out. For the first time I know many, many people who are intelligent and "non-swivel-eyed" who will be voting UKIP - they are not just saying it!

I'm not quite sure what message you're trying to send.

The Tories are as anti-europe now as they were when Thatcher was in power. The government might not be, but we don't have a Tory government.


Anyway, since when are the Tories a high spend party? And anti-business...? In what way?
And more to the point - in what way are UKIP showing themselves to be pro-business or lower spending?

[P-Jay]

odyssey2200 said:

P-Jay said:

they'reTHEIR core belief is based on a Xenophobic view of the EU and their great aim for us to it leave it.

fixed that for you

as opposed to the other parties who are too busy short stroking over the EU and handing over sovereignty. power and cash in return for restrictions, red tape, regulation and aggro.

Thanks, my Polish education was a little light on the various There, Their, They're combinations.

I've decided that debating about what sort of Government UKIP would make is as pointless as debating what how a boat made out of cheese would perform, sure you can talk about it endlessly, but you'll never find a large enough group of idiots to build one.

Carry on.

[0a]

oyster said:

I cannot believe they are suggesting they can fund them all just by not paying the UK's subs to the EU. Remember, some of those subs we get back, so the net contribution may only be a few £bn.

But this simply isn't the case. They suggest plenty more to help balance the books:

UKIP website said:

UK national debt will exceed £1.4 trillion by the end of this Parliament by which time Osborne’s cuts will not even equal our EU contributions. Public spending is increasing and the Coalition’s cuts do not scratch the surface of Labour’s deficit. We must cut down Government if we are to return to a sound economy.

• EU ‘renewable’ energy rules will double electricity bills by 2020. Global warming is not proven - wind power is futile. Scrap all green taxes, wind turbine subsidies and adopt nuclear power to free us from dependence on fossil fuels and foreign oil and gas.

• Quangos cost us £60bn each year – at least half the cost of the NHS. Bring them under Parliament’s control and cut the cost substantially.

• Make real and rigorous cuts in foreign aid and replace with free trade.
...
• Ensure that benefits are only for those who have lived here for over 5 years. Make welfare a safety net for the needy, not a bed for the lazy.

This is aside from the many economic they suggest - flat taxes, reduction in NI and business tax, reforming pensions – that would change economic incentives. It's hard to compare to mainstream parties directly but to say they are reliant on EU savings money is incorrect and their position is an interesting one to consider.

[oyster]

0a said:

oyster said:

I cannot believe they are suggesting they can fund them all just by not paying the UK's subs to the EU. Remember, some of those subs we get back, so the net contribution may only be a few £bn.

But this simply isn't the case. They suggest plenty more to help balance the books:

UKIP website said:

UK national debt will exceed £1.4 trillion by the end of this Parliament by which time Osborne’s cuts will not even equal our EU contributions. Public spending is increasing and the Coalition’s cuts do not scratch the surface of Labour’s deficit. We must cut down Government if we are to return to a sound economy.

• EU ‘renewable’ energy rules will double electricity bills by 2020. Global warming is not proven - wind power is futile. Scrap all green taxes, wind turbine subsidies and adopt nuclear power to free us from dependence on fossil fuels and foreign oil and gas.

• Quangos cost us £60bn each year – at least half the cost of the NHS. Bring them under Parliament’s control and cut the cost substantially.

• Make real and rigorous cuts in foreign aid and replace with free trade.
...
• Ensure that benefits are only for those who have lived here for over 5 years. Make welfare a safety net for the needy, not a bed for the lazy.

This is aside from the many economic they suggest - flat taxes, reduction in NI and business tax, reforming pensions – that would change economic incentives. It's hard to compare to mainstream parties directly but to say they are reliant on EU savings money is incorrect and their position is an interesting one to consider.

In all fairness they sound good conservative-style policies (if a little wishy-washy and un-costed).

I might even be tempted to vote for them, but they alarm me with their disdain for Europe.

[AshVX220]

oyster said:

In all fairness they sound good conservative-style policies (if a little wishy-washy and un-costed).

I might even be tempted to vote for them, but they alarm me with their disdain for Europe.

Why? Genuine Question.

[Halb]

P-Jay said:

If they're not a one policy party, why set their stall out by calling themselves "the UK independence party" If someone knocked my door claiming to be from the 'Votes for Dogs Party' it would be fair to assume their big issue was to allow Dogs a vote. I want the UK to remain part of Europe their rhetoric goes against all that so I don't bother to research any further – and more people agree with me, than they do with UKIP.
If they truly are a mutli-policy party interested in every aspect of life in Britain they should set their stall out as such, but they don't, because whilst they offer an manifesto covering many subjects no doubt, they're core belief is based on a Xenophobic view of the EU and their great aim for us to it leave it.

That is how they started, and it is a decent enough name. Just as the advert says all things are connected to politics, so all politics within the UK are connected to the EU. Things don't exist in a vacuum. Comparing to a party for dog votes is not appropriate since that isn't an all inclusive fundamental policy.
As for people agreeing, if the UK was to be allowed a referendum on membership ( a crazy dangerous thought for a real democracy) the outcome is open.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/oct/24/eu-ref...
UKiP have set out there stall as such, from the posts above which show their policies. It's not just out of the EU.

[odyssey2200]

Ironic that the Labour party is the choice of the work shy and lazy.

[WhoseGeneration]

I'd love to see the reports from those who monitor the Internet for the political parties.
Nevermind such as YouGov and private polling, the views expressed on the Internet are a better source.
Perhaps why the politicians seek to control the Internet?

[0a]

oyster said:

In all fairness they sound good conservative-style policies (if a little wishy-washy and un-costed).

I might even be tempted to vote for them, but they alarm me with their disdain for Europe.

I do know what you mean - they need a bit of polish. As an example look at the metadata they have used (ie the stuff that gets picked up and used as the description in Google):



When choosing what to say about themselves the second thing is "we're not racist".

[Derek Smith]

0a said:

I do know what you mean - they need a bit of polish. As an example look at the metadata they have used (ie the stuff that gets picked up and used as the description in Google):



When choosing what to say about themselves the second thing is "we're not racist".

You think they should say they are racist?

[AshVX220]

Derek Smith said:

0a said:

I do know what you mean - they need a bit of polish. As an example look at the metadata they have used (ie the stuff that gets picked up and used as the description in Google):



When choosing what to say about themselves the second thing is "we're not racist".

You think they should say they are racist?

They aren't racist, unfortunately, because so many put them in the same bracket as the BNP, though God knows why, they have to make the point that they aren't like the BNP.

Even on this very thread there have been posters talking about how UKIP are a bunch of far-right swiveled racists with only one policy. Which is entirely un-true. But you try telling them that.

[anonymous-user]

odyssey2200 said:

Ironic that the Labour party is the choice of the work shy and lazy.

i dont think the work shy and the lazy affiliate themselves to a particular party. Likewise I dont think that the unskilled/manual labour employees do either. you only have to look at voter turnout figures to realise that a vast majority of people do not vote.

to vote, imho, you have to care, and the lazy and the workshy are unlikely to be that bohtered. htey care only about benefits and doing their best to avoid work. if you think they are inclined to study party politics, manifestos and the implications of what might happen should a particualr party get into power, i think you are mistaken. i would take a guess that the voter turnout for those who earn <£20K is minimal. Of course all this assumes that by "work shy and lazy" you dont actually mean "public sector"

anyone pick up on Baroness Warsi's UKIP/BNP comment and done some research? might make a few people here who voted UKIP in this poll wince a little?

[oyster]

AshVX220 said:

oyster said:

In all fairness they sound good conservative-style policies (if a little wishy-washy and un-costed).

I might even be tempted to vote for them, but they alarm me with their disdain for Europe.

Why? Genuine Question.

My business involves a lot of trade with European countries, often involving moving consultants around. With open borders and no issues on working visas this makes it much easier.
Most (not all but most) of fellow business people I speak to are strongly in favour of even closer harmonisation within the EU.

[chris watton]

oyster said:

AshVX220 said:

oyster said:

In all fairness they sound good conservative-style policies (if a little wishy-washy and un-costed).

I might even be tempted to vote for them, but they alarm me with their disdain for Europe.

Why? Genuine Question.

My business involves a lot of trade with European countries, often involving moving consultants around. With open borders and no issues on working visas this makes it much easier.
Most (not all but most) of fellow business people I speak to are strongly in favour of even closer harmonisation within the EU.

All of my business is through an EU country, but I see no reason why the UK coming out of the EU would change this - why do you think it would alter your relationship with the companies you deal with within the EU?

[AJS-]

chris watton said:

oyster said:

AshVX220 said:

oyster said:

In all fairness they sound good conservative-style policies (if a little wishy-washy and un-costed).

I might even be tempted to vote for them, but they alarm me with their disdain for Europe.

Why? Genuine Question.

My business involves a lot of trade with European countries, often involving moving consultants around. With open borders and no issues on working visas this makes it much easier.
Most (not all but most) of fellow business people I speak to are strongly in favour of even closer harmonisation within the EU.

All of my business is through an EU country, but I see no reason why the UK coming out of the EU would change this - why do you think it would alter your relationship with the companies you deal with within the EU?

Surely a question of how we withdraw.

oyster, interested to know if you deal with Norway, Switzerland at all? Is it significantly more difficult?

[Halb]

pablo said:

anyone pick up on Baroness Warsi's UKIP/BNP comment and done some research? might make a few people here who voted UKIP in this poll wince a little?

How so?

[AshVX220]

AJS- said:

chris watton said:

oyster said:

AshVX220 said:

oyster said:

In all fairness they sound good conservative-style policies (if a little wishy-washy and un-costed).

I might even be tempted to vote for them, but they alarm me with their disdain for Europe.

Why? Genuine Question.

My business involves a lot of trade with European countries, often involving moving consultants around. With open borders and no issues on working visas this makes it much easier.
Most (not all but most) of fellow business people I speak to are strongly in favour of even closer harmonisation within the EU.

All of my business is through an EU country, but I see no reason why the UK coming out of the EU would change this - why do you think it would alter your relationship with the companies you deal with within the EU?

Surely a question of how we withdraw.

oyster, interested to know if you deal with Norway, Switzerland at all? Is it significantly more difficult?

I'm surprised business people are so happy to continue to be part of a continent wide left leangin government, which stifles business development. The EU want big government small private sector (even though it's un-affordable).

Why would anyone in business want this? The laws the EU bring in, raise costs to operate a business, which I would suggest should be more important than being able to send staff here, there ane everywhere easily.

I don't get it. No I don't run a business, which maybe why I don't get it, but I'd have thought businesses wanting the EU, is like Turkey's wanting Christmas?

[AJS-]

AshVX220 said:

I'm surprised business people are so happy to continue to be part of a continent wide left leangin government, which stifles business development. The EU want big government small private sector (even though it's un-affordable).

Why would anyone in business want this? The laws the EU bring in, raise costs to operate a business, which I would suggest should be more important than being able to send staff here, there ane everywhere easily.

I don't get it. No I don't run a business, which maybe why I don't get it, but I'd have thought businesses wanting the EU, is like Turkey's wanting Christmas?

My take on it is this.

When you're running a small business you're flat out getting your next deal. Despite a million cliches about a global economy and pan-European business, most of this is still local. Taxes and regulations are a pain in the neck, but most of them seem to come from the local councils and other authorities rather than from Brussels. Europe seems an irrelevance.

When you're running a big business, you're hob nobbing with politicians and international finance people. London has it's merits, but Strasbourg, Brussels, Paris and Rome sort of break the monotony. Who really cares about some red tape or taxes, I've got a finance department and an army of consultants and administrators to deal with all that.

That leaves the people who really care about it as politicos, and people who have been directly bitten by it, or people whose political principles over ride the combination of their focus on business, their apathy, and their other voting habits, which most people - business owners or otherwise - don't give a lot of thought to.

[anonymous-user]

Halb said:

pablo said:

anyone pick up on Baroness Warsi's UKIP/BNP comment and done some research? might make a few people here who voted UKIP in this poll wince a little?

How so?

Warsi was noting the lack of BNP candidates and the increase in UKIP candidates implying that a number of people who may have previously stood for BNP had changed their colours and are now standing for UKIP. Is everyone comforatbale with that? everyone researched their UKIP candidate for any previous dealing with the BNP? happy with the resutls of the research? as you were....

BTW, I know UKIP are far less divisive and extreme comapred to the BNP, that UKIP are not a facist right wing party in disguise and that they have more policies than "send 'em back where they came from"....