Santander - Next bank in line for mass withdrawals of savings?
Discussion
Santander said:
You may have seen some coverage about Santander in the news recently, following the decision by the credit rating agency, Moody's, to move Santander UK's long-term credit rating from A1 to A2. We would like to reassure customers that they have nothing to be concerned about and that we are a strong business focused on retail banking, as noted by the ratings from the other two rating agencies, Fitch: A+ and S&P: A.
There has also been a lot of media coverage recently on problems in the eurozone and some customers have asked us what this means for Santander UK. Santander UK plc operates under a subsidiary model, which means we are self-sufficient and operate on a standalone basis. Our funding, liquidity and capital is managed in the UK independently from our Spanish parent company. Santander UK remains firmly focused on the UK with around 90 per cent of the balance sheet UK-related, with the non UK elements of our balance sheet related largely to US liquid assets. Our exposure to Europe amounts to less than 1 per cent of our total assets.
Santander UK plc is regulated by the UK regulator - the Financial Services Authority - and all deposits up to £85,000 are covered under the rules of the Financial Services Compensation Scheme.
There has also been a lot of media coverage recently on problems in the eurozone and some customers have asked us what this means for Santander UK. Santander UK plc operates under a subsidiary model, which means we are self-sufficient and operate on a standalone basis. Our funding, liquidity and capital is managed in the UK independently from our Spanish parent company. Santander UK remains firmly focused on the UK with around 90 per cent of the balance sheet UK-related, with the non UK elements of our balance sheet related largely to US liquid assets. Our exposure to Europe amounts to less than 1 per cent of our total assets.
Santander UK plc is regulated by the UK regulator - the Financial Services Authority - and all deposits up to £85,000 are covered under the rules of the Financial Services Compensation Scheme.
Possession.Ribol said:
Santander said:
You may have seen some coverage about Santander in the news recently, following the decision by the credit rating agency, Moody's, to move Santander UK's long-term credit rating from A1 to A2. We would like to reassure customers that they have nothing to be concerned about and that we are a strong business focused on retail banking, as noted by the ratings from the other two rating agencies, Fitch: A+ and S&P: A.
There has also been a lot of media coverage recently on problems in the eurozone and some customers have asked us what this means for Santander UK. Santander UK plc operates under a subsidiary model, which means we are self-sufficient and operate on a standalone basis. Our funding, liquidity and capital is managed in the UK independently from our Spanish parent company. Santander UK remains firmly focused on the UK with around 90 per cent of the balance sheet UK-related, with the non UK elements of our balance sheet related largely to US liquid assets. Our exposure to Europe amounts to less than 1 per cent of our total assets.
Santander UK plc is regulated by the UK regulator - the Financial Services Authority - and all deposits up to £85,000 are covered under the rules of the Financial Services Compensation Scheme.
There has also been a lot of media coverage recently on problems in the eurozone and some customers have asked us what this means for Santander UK. Santander UK plc operates under a subsidiary model, which means we are self-sufficient and operate on a standalone basis. Our funding, liquidity and capital is managed in the UK independently from our Spanish parent company. Santander UK remains firmly focused on the UK with around 90 per cent of the balance sheet UK-related, with the non UK elements of our balance sheet related largely to US liquid assets. Our exposure to Europe amounts to less than 1 per cent of our total assets.
Santander UK plc is regulated by the UK regulator - the Financial Services Authority - and all deposits up to £85,000 are covered under the rules of the Financial Services Compensation Scheme.
But still the tin-foilers witter.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Exactly. As per usual the public have misunderstood the risks and are looking at the wrong thing. The fact that Santander in the UK has been downgraded to the level of a ropey building society or a Govt owned bankrupt bank isn't actually the issue.
The fact that the vast majority of clients will have savings under the £85k level and so covered by the FSCS isn't the issue.
The fact that Santander UK is a legal banking entity in its own right and on paper ring fenced from its parent company is also not the issue here.
There is only one single issue for people to focus on and it does not matter whether you are a Santander customer at all. It matters to every single tax payer in the UK.
If Santander UK were to be emptied of money overnight by the flick of a switch by their parent company then it won't be the customers of Santander who lose out but every single UK taxpayer as we will be the ones covering the FSCS payout to the customers and picking up the tab for one of the UK's largest retail banks.
So, as a taxpayer do you want to be on the hook for paying out on this one,
As a Brit do you think for one second that a Spanish govt that is on the rocks and facing up to the total ruin of its banks and its people would hesitate to flick the switch that syphons billions of British savings to them? At what point in history has a European ex power ever, ever not accepted a gift horse from Britain?
Let us get serious here. When the chips are down we are an island off the coast of Europe and Europeans will not think twice about using anything they can take from here to help themselves.
So, the really big question to ask if the actual risk is of the overnight illegal plundering of a British bank by a foreign power is what is the British Govt doing about it?
First thing I would do is to ascertain the nationality of those within the bank who have the position to work on flicking that switch? In fact, I would first ascertain whether the UK arm is actually the one in control of of it is all done from Madrid. That would be rather telling.
The simple fact is that we would be absolute fools to think that the Spanish wouldn't plunder the UK bank when the chips are right down and the other simple fact is that we cannot afford to bail out what is actually a perfectly healthy bank if it had no parent.
I know what I would be doing in the position of the British Govt.
DonkeyApple said:
Exactly. As per usual the public have misunderstood the risks and are looking at the wrong thing.
The fact that Santander in the UK has been downgraded to the level of a ropey building society or a Govt owned bankrupt bank isn't actually the issue.
The fact that the vast majority of clients will have savings under the £85k level and so covered by the FSCS isn't the issue.
The fact that Santander UK is a legal banking entity in its own right and on paper ring fenced from its parent company is also not the issue here.
There is only one single issue for people to focus on and it does not matter whether you are a Santander customer at all. It matters to every single tax payer in the UK.
If Santander UK were to be emptied of money overnight by the flick of a switch by their parent company then it won't be the customers of Santander who lose out but every single UK taxpayer as we will be the ones covering the FSCS payout to the customers and picking up the tab for one of the UK's largest retail banks.
So, as a taxpayer do you want to be on the hook for paying out on this one,
As a Brit do you think for one second that a Spanish govt that is on the rocks and facing up to the total ruin of its banks and its people would hesitate to flick the switch that syphons billions of British savings to them? At what point in history has a European ex power ever, ever not accepted a gift horse from Britain?
Let us get serious here. When the chips are down we are an island off the coast of Europe and Europeans will not think twice about using anything they can take from here to help themselves.
So, the really big question to ask if the actual risk is of the overnight illegal plundering of a British bank by a foreign power is what is the British Govt doing about it?
First thing I would do is to ascertain the nationality of those within the bank who have the position to work on flicking that switch? In fact, I would first ascertain whether the UK arm is actually the one in control of of it is all done from Madrid. That would be rather telling.
The simple fact is that we would be absolute fools to think that the Spanish wouldn't plunder the UK bank when the chips are right down and the other simple fact is that we cannot afford to bail out what is actually a perfectly healthy bank if it had no parent.
I know what I would be doing in the position of the British Govt.
So is it better for us taxpayers to start withdrawing our money now and almost cause a catastrophic run on the bank which we'd all end up paying to sort out or should we leave the money in there, meaning that Santander UK can continue to function but at the risk that the naughty Spaniards might steal it? Either way the UK government will have to pick up the tab, in the short term at least.The fact that Santander in the UK has been downgraded to the level of a ropey building society or a Govt owned bankrupt bank isn't actually the issue.
The fact that the vast majority of clients will have savings under the £85k level and so covered by the FSCS isn't the issue.
The fact that Santander UK is a legal banking entity in its own right and on paper ring fenced from its parent company is also not the issue here.
There is only one single issue for people to focus on and it does not matter whether you are a Santander customer at all. It matters to every single tax payer in the UK.
If Santander UK were to be emptied of money overnight by the flick of a switch by their parent company then it won't be the customers of Santander who lose out but every single UK taxpayer as we will be the ones covering the FSCS payout to the customers and picking up the tab for one of the UK's largest retail banks.
So, as a taxpayer do you want to be on the hook for paying out on this one,
As a Brit do you think for one second that a Spanish govt that is on the rocks and facing up to the total ruin of its banks and its people would hesitate to flick the switch that syphons billions of British savings to them? At what point in history has a European ex power ever, ever not accepted a gift horse from Britain?
Let us get serious here. When the chips are down we are an island off the coast of Europe and Europeans will not think twice about using anything they can take from here to help themselves.
So, the really big question to ask if the actual risk is of the overnight illegal plundering of a British bank by a foreign power is what is the British Govt doing about it?
First thing I would do is to ascertain the nationality of those within the bank who have the position to work on flicking that switch? In fact, I would first ascertain whether the UK arm is actually the one in control of of it is all done from Madrid. That would be rather telling.
The simple fact is that we would be absolute fools to think that the Spanish wouldn't plunder the UK bank when the chips are right down and the other simple fact is that we cannot afford to bail out what is actually a perfectly healthy bank if it had no parent.
I know what I would be doing in the position of the British Govt.
Inkyfingers said:
So is it better for us taxpayers to start withdrawing our money now and almost cause a catastrophic run on the bank which we'd all end up paying to sort out or should we leave the money in there, meaning that Santander UK can continue to function but at the risk that that naughty spaniards might steal it? Either way the UK government will have to pick up the tab, in the short term at least.
It's irrelevant. If you have more than £85k then obviously you should remove that excess and if they have all your money then you should move some to tide you I've in the event.
No. As I tried to explain above the key is what the Govt are doing to protect the British taxpayer from an act of theft.
DonkeyApple said:
It's irrelevant.
If you have more than £85k then obviously you should remove that excess and if they have all your money then you should move some to tide you I've in the event.
No. As I tried to explain above the key is what the Govt are doing to protect the British taxpayer from an act of theft.
What can the government do abut it, short of introducing protectionist currency and banking controls that will isolate the UK and make the city of London uncompetitive? If you have more than £85k then obviously you should remove that excess and if they have all your money then you should move some to tide you I've in the event.
No. As I tried to explain above the key is what the Govt are doing to protect the British taxpayer from an act of theft.
t.jonah35 said:
Chaps can someone answer this. You are protected via facts but if Santander uk went would the fscs be able to bail out all the savers, ie how deep is the pockets of the fscs?
The FSCS fund is about as big as the national insurance pot, it's just a political facade to Make people sleep at night. Thier 85k doesn't exist apart from on a screen, it's a way of stopping people making a run on thier savings. Now we have countries effectively making runs on each other, which Is altogether more serious; it's computers that are to blame isn't it?, it is surely impossible to 'win' in a global system of entangled investment by using protectionist measures, the only solution is more fudging to keep things going, and don't let those pesky Indians and Chinese get above thier station. jonah35 said:
Chaps can someone answer this. You are protected via facts but if Santander uk went would the fscs be able to bail out all the savers, ie how deep is the pockets of the fscs?
It's pretty much empty after payouts on MFG and Worldspreads. Brokers have been informed of interim payment requirements.
It would need to claim off the other banks which given the size of Santander may lead to emergency QE an more hits to the tax payer.
DonkeyApple said:
jonah35 said:
Chaps can someone answer this. You are protected via facts but if Santander uk went would the fscs be able to bail out all the savers, ie how deep is the pockets of the fscs?
It's pretty much empty after payouts on MFG and Worldspreads. Brokers have been informed of interim payment requirements.
It would need to claim off the other banks which given the size of Santander may lead to emergency QE an more hits to the tax payer.
Inkyfingers said:
What can the government do abut it, short of introducing protectionist currency and banking controls that will isolate the UK and make the city of London uncompetitive?
Nothing needed like that. If there was serious risk then we have other agencies to speak to those able to make overnight transfers. Particular attention to seniors of non UK nationality. Frankly, the slightest hint and the Govt should walk in to the operation.
DonkeyApple said:
Inkyfingers said:
What can the government do abut it, short of introducing protectionist currency and banking controls that will isolate the UK and make the city of London uncompetitive?
Nothing needed like that. If there was serious risk then we have other agencies to speak to those able to make overnight transfers. Particular attention to seniors of non UK nationality. Frankly, the slightest hint and the Govt should walk in to the operation.
I would send them in now and read them the riot act, explain how long they will spend in jail and they will not be able to leave the country, I am sure this would nip it in the bud, but known how this lot work they will wait till after the event, then say we could not do anything.Fek! I took out an Abbey National PEP yonks ago which, over the years has doubled, halved and then doubled in value. It's now a Santander UK Growth fund and I have just looked and it's lost over a £1000 in a week, around 10% of it's value.
I don't need the money now but do I panic and pull it out on Monday or forget about it as these things blow over if you can wait a long while, fingers crossed.
I don't need the money now but do I panic and pull it out on Monday or forget about it as these things blow over if you can wait a long while, fingers crossed.
PRTVR said:
If I was in charge I would send them in now and read them the riot act, explain how long they will spend in jail and they will not be able to leave the country, I am sure this would nip it in the bud, but known how this lot work they will wait till after the event, then say we could not do anything.
Well there is certainly nothing the FSA can do. The law already defines what can and can't be done very clearly. Ergo the FSA would come into play of they were broken, but obviously that would be far too late. I would send them in now and read them the riot act, explain how long they will spend in jail and they will not be able to leave the country, I am sure this would nip it in the bud, but known how this lot work they will wait till after the event, then say we could not do anything.As you say, an agency which can have a word in the shell like of the relevant people.
My concern would be if these people were non Nationals.
http://www.aboutsantander.co.uk/about-us/directors...
http://www.aboutsantander.co.uk/about-us/directors...
And those below them with the ability to make transfers.
As you say, I don't have much faith in Cameron to be setting any wheels in motion to head off any temptation to use UK citizen's savings to bail out Spain.
PRTVR said:
If I was in charge I would send them in now and read them the riot act, explain how long they will spend in jail and they will not be able to leave the country, I am sure this would nip it in the bud, but known how this lot work they will wait till after the event, then say we could not do anything.
Santander do not allow transfer of over £100k in any 24 hrs, and only £25k electronically - Government should impose a iimit £10 million to a Euro zone country per day I would send them in now and read them the riot act, explain how long they will spend in jail and they will not be able to leave the country, I am sure this would nip it in the bud, but known how this lot work they will wait till after the event, then say we could not do anything.
Ribol said:
Mermaid said:
Santander do not allow transfer of over £100k in any 24 hrs, and only £25k electronically .....................
Not that it matters but you can transfer considerably more than £25k electronically in one go from a Santander account using the online banking.Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff