Conservative MP - Police Rant.

[Gene Vincent]

TheSnitch said:

Gene Vincent said:

Hahahaha...

I'll take that as being as close to an apology as I'm going to get.

As far as security is concerned (and the policeman is there for that reason) he is a resident of Downing St. and he is to be placed within the safety cordon asap, not argued with at the fking gate by a jumped up fool who has lost sight of the reason for his very presence at the gate!

tt

I don't care whether he lives there, has an office there, had a reasonable expectation of the gate being opened or not.

The minute he played the ''do you know who I am?'' card and started swearing at the officer in question he put himself firmly in the wrong. And anyone suggesting otherwise is, in my humble but considered opinion, a complete tosser.

He's an ex-military man, he's robust in his language, so are you, should that effect your job?

You 'don't care whether he lives there or not' because he called the cop a pleb, but tt would have been OK then...

[Countdown]

Gene Vincent said:

So, again, you said 'facts'... where are these facts?

You said he lives there. He does not live there. You have now changed to "he remains officially a resident". Do you agree that he no more "lives there" than any of the cleaners or secretaries?

Gene Vincent said:

It doesn't make him 'more important' it makes him 'more at risk', which is the important issue regarding his treatment.

It's the same level of risk which applies to anybody working in Downing Street. And yet none of them go around harrumphing "Do you know who I am?" and referring to "plebs"?

[vonuber]

Gene Vincent said:

"Don't you PH'ers know who I am??"

[Countdown]

Gene Vincent said:

He's an ex-military man, he's robust in his language, so are you, should that effect your job?

If he can't display self-control he shouldn't have any role in Government.

If the copper had been ex-military and told Mr Mitchell to "go fk himself" would that have been acceptable, in your view?

[Countdown]

Gene Vincent said:

I never stated whether he was leaving or arriving, I stated that as a resident of the street he can request the gates being opened if the pedestrian exit is blocked or not, it was, he asked ha was refused by a jobsworth, in or out it is of no consequence.

On four separate occasions despite it being in the standing orders...

I used ingress to emphasise the issue only.

What standing orders are you referring to?

[bitchstewie]

If he personally is so "at risk" why is he riding a pushbike around Westminster?

[TheSnitch]

Gene Vincent said:

TheSnitch said:

Gene Vincent said:

Hahahaha...

I'll take that as being as close to an apology as I'm going to get.

As far as security is concerned (and the policeman is there for that reason) he is a resident of Downing St. and he is to be placed within the safety cordon asap, not argued with at the fking gate by a jumped up fool who has lost sight of the reason for his very presence at the gate!

tt

I don't care whether he lives there, has an office there, had a reasonable expectation of the gate being opened or not.

The minute he played the ''do you know who I am?'' card and started swearing at the officer in question he put himself firmly in the wrong. And anyone suggesting otherwise is, in my humble but considered opinion, a complete tosser.

He's an ex-military man, he's robust in his language, so are you, should that effect your job?

You 'don't care whether he lives there or not' because he called the cop a pleb, but tt would have been OK then...

Yep. Tosser.

[Countdown]

Gene Vincent said:

I never stated whether he was leaving or arriving, I stated that as a resident of the street he can request the gates being opened if the pedestrian exit is blocked or not,

No he can't. If he was entitled to do that he would, at the very least, be stating that as mitigation in his apologies. He may have thought he was entitled to but that's not the Policeman's fault.

[Halb]

Gene Vincent said:

I never stated whether he was leaving or arriving, I stated that as a resident of the street he can request the gates being opened if the pedestrian exit is blocked or not, it was, he asked ha was refused by a jobsworth, in or out it is of no consequence.
On four separate occasions despite it being in the standing orders...
I used ingress to emphasise the issue only.

To be fair, all of your posts do refer to access to the gated part. It made me rethink whether he was coming or going.

Have you any link to these standing orders?

[paulwoof]

bhstewie said:

If he personally is so "at risk" why is he riding a pushbike around Westminster?

especially with a gay little basket on the front, supprised he didnt get knocked out for looking like a woofter

[Gene Vincent]

Countdown said:

Gene Vincent said:

So, again, you said 'facts'... where are these facts?

You said he lives there. He does not live there. You have now changed to "he remains officially a resident". Do you agree that he no more "lives there" than any of the cleaners or secretaries?

Gene Vincent said:

It doesn't make him 'more important' it makes him 'more at risk', which is the important issue regarding his treatment.

It's the same level of risk which applies to anybody working in Downing Street. And yet none of them go around harrumphing "Do you know who I am?" and referring to "plebs"?

I'll keep pointing it out, he is an official resident at No12 Downing St.

So no 'fact' wrong at all in what I have said.

Now, you said 'facts'... so far you have produced just one and you are wrong about that one, presumably you have more, produce them...

I doubt whether anyone is going to do anything in Downing St. unless the cabinet is in session or at very least we can consider it less likely.

They don't because nobody does know them, but this chap is well known and shouldn't be stopped by a jobsworth.

Edited by Gene Vincent on Saturday 22 September 15:43

[ClaphamGT3]

When I did a summer internship as a research assistant for CCO donkeys years ago, I had to go to No 10 from time to time. It was the height of the IRA threat. All staff and pols below cabinet rank used either the cabinet office side gate or the treasury stairs but all the 'residents' - PM, CE and CW and families all came and went through the main gate as they pleased. Most didn't use it too much as the car park is on Horseguards so I can see how a newbie plod might not fully understand the rules (assuming they are still the same)

[XCP]

Ken Clarke is apparently defending him now. Isn't he is enough trouble already?

[Countdown]

Gene Vincent said:

Countdown said:

Gene Vincent said:

So, again, you said 'facts'... where are these facts?

You said he lives there. He does not live there. You have now changed to "he remains officially a resident". Do you agree that he no more "lives there" than any of the cleaners or secretaries?

Gene Vincent said:

It doesn't make him 'more important' it makes him 'more at risk', which is the important issue regarding his treatment.

It's the same level of risk which applies to anybody working in Downing Street. And yet none of them go around harrumphing "Do you know who I am?" and referring to "plebs"?

I'll keep pointing it out, he is an official resident at No12 Downing St.

So no 'fact' wrong at all in what I have said.

Now, you said 'facts'... so far you have produced just one and you are wrong about that one, presumably you have more, produce them...

You said he lives there. he does not.

You now keep saying his "official residence" is there. Nobody has denied that or even challenged that But he does NOT live there. he can't live there as its being used by offices by somebody else. His offices are now at Number 9. As I keep telling you his London residence is in Islington.

[Countdown]

Gene Vincent said:

I doubt whether anyone is going to do anything in Downing St. unless the cabinet is in session or at very least we can consider it less likely.

cameron's issued a pretty strong condemnation of him (as have many others).

Nobody (apart from you) seems to be pointing the finger of blame at the PC.

[Gene Vincent]

So... let's get this clear... you claim I have listed incorrect facts and all you have is this?

The difference between an official residence and living there, is that it?

He goes there throughout the day, if the work keeps him late he stays there overnight and yet this is not enough for you... right....

So, let's set this aside my hair-splitting friend and let's get on to all these 'facts' that you claim I have got wrong according to your rather selective application of what and what is not a residence...

[Gene Vincent]

Countdown said:

Gene Vincent said:

I doubt whether anyone is going to do anything in Downing St. unless the cabinet is in session or at very least we can consider it less likely.

cameron's issued a pretty strong condemnation of him (as have many others).

Nobody (apart from you) seems to be pointing the finger of blame at the PC.

It's called politics and politics is all about timing, the stupid are baying for a bit of spilt blood and this is (hopefully) all they will get, a sop, a damp rag of an apology and (doubtless) when the time is right the cop will be gone and he will have shot the any hope of furtherment in the service and the matter quietly forgotten.

The fond attachment to the idea that the apology carries any real weight shocks me on this site... but the naive remain naive.

This will not destroy anyones career other than the fool who didn't open the gates, if you think differently then I have to question your worldliness.

What you are really looking at here is a clash of 'Attitude Tests' and the police just lost.

I love the naive, they're just so pathetic... or should I say plebeian.

[Countdown]

Gene Vincent said:

So... let's get this clear... you claim I have listed incorrect facts and all you have is this?

Feel free to point out where I have said "facts" as opposed to "fact"

Gene Vincent said:

The difference between an official residence and living there, is that it?

Well, yes, when you made it germane to the debate. You have tried to create some kind of situation where Downing Street is his normal residence and the nasty old copper was making it difficult for him to enter his hearth and home to be comforted by his wife, children and, no doubt, kittens. It ISN'T. It's his place of work, no more, nor less

Gene Vincent said:

if the work keeps him late he stays there overnight

Do you actually have any evidence of this or is it just another obfuscation? You know, like the "standing orders" that you (and only you) think the PC has contravened?

Gene Vincent said:

and yet this is not enough for you... right....

Look, you stated stuff as "fact". It would have been far easier to say you got it wrong or it was just a "turn of phrase" but you had to keep insisting you were right. Not my fault you wre having to backtrack.

[ViperPict]

Gene Vincent said:

Countdown said:

Gene Vincent said:

I doubt whether anyone is going to do anything in Downing St. unless the cabinet is in session or at very least we can consider it less likely.

cameron's issued a pretty strong condemnation of him (as have many others).

Nobody (apart from you) seems to be pointing the finger of blame at the PC.

It's called politics and politics is all about timing, the stupid are baying for a bit of spilt blood and this is (hopefully) all they will get, a sop, a damp rag of an apology and (doubtless) when the time is right the cop will be gone and he will have shot the any hope of furtherment in the service and the matter quietly forgotten.

The fond attachment to the idea that the apology carries any real weight shocks me on this site... but the naive remain naive.

This will not destroy anyones career other than the fool who didn't open the gates, if you think differently then I have to question your worldliness.

What you are really looking at here is a clash of 'Attitude Tests' and the police just lost.

I love the naive, they're just so pathetic... or should I say plebeian.

You are making huge asumptions about the attitude and motivation that the policeman had yet still wishing personal ill on him. Quite unpleasant. All the evidence seems to be coming down to him doing his job as per his obligations and having some upper class twit with a very high opinion of himself take a strop.

The government need to remember (and I'm sure they are aware) that a lot of people have a lot more respect for the police than do for toffee-nosed, privelaged Tories!

[XCP]

I don't see that it matters where he lives. It is not good form for Cabinet politicians to go around swearing at the police. I would have thought that was the point.