Discussion
La Liga said:
WinstonWolf said:
So solving crimes that haven't happened? I guess that's easier than solving burglaries.
There is no excuse for this sort of s
t when actual crime is still happening. You need to attend a few less diversity seminars and get back to solving crime.
I knew as soon as I had seen you'd replied that you wouldn't have got it. There is no excuse for this sort of s
t when actual crime is still happening. You need to attend a few less diversity seminars and get back to solving crime.Don't worry, though- they're still persecuting motorists.
La Liga said:
richie99 said:
This not some invisible pretend 'hate' crime.
Both examples contain exactly the type of non-crime hate incidents the police want reporting. See IPCC reports for further info. richie99 said:
Maybe someone will come up with some evidence to support the idiotic idea but these two aren't it.
As above, both examples contain exactly the type of non-crime hate incidents the police want reporting. You appear to be mistaken since you think they aren't relevant to whatever 'idiotic idea' you think the idea is. I additionally provided an example where the system was effective.
It's important to remember this will be an important internal campaign. Both examples are reminders that officers need to recognise hate incidents and the risk some of those pose to prevent the outcomes seen in both of those examples.
Russian Troll Bot said:
With regards to the talk about improving relations with minority communities, what about improving relations with all communities? There is a feeling amongst many people the police are not interested in investigating certain crimes and are interested in easy targets, and this is also the same force that failed so massively over the Rotherham abuse gangs.
It's desirable to improve relations with everyone, but there haven't been too many murders where the police were found to be institutionally racist against the white, majority, for example. So sometimes there's specific work to be done. In terms of crime, the courts are full to capacity with large wait times for trials and prisons are nearly always full, so there's not too much of a blockage from the people who put together the investigations which form prosecutions and convictions.
Russian Troll Bot said:
Full version of the South Yorks PCC making a complete clown of himself
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=5&...
She doesn't understand the subject matter. She's far too simplistic and binary. https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=5&...
She's also a great interviewer - just shouts and interrupts the PCC. Class act not letting him finishing his sentence about the burglary because she thought she was being clever.
The intention of the campaign seems to be to encourage the reporting of issues, whether real or imagined.
You have provided evidence of a problem (ineffective policing) along with a solution (encourage more reporting) which does nothing to fix the problem.
It’s possible my logic is flawed but I can’t see the link.
So now the residents of South Yorkshire are encouraged to report even more issues so the Police can do what? Carry on doing nothing or actually do something? Has there been a significant increase in competence and resource levels to permit this or is it just a pc publicity campaign which has fortunately backfired?
richie99 said:
Just to I make sure I understand. The police had these situations reported to them, frequently over an extended time period and achieved absolutely nothing.
Yes, those examples are examples of major failings. But you weren't talking about that, you were talking about whether or not what was reported was the sort of thing this campaign is targeting or not. richie99 said:
The intention of the campaign seems to be to encourage the reporting of issues, whether real or imagined.
The law makes it perception-based, so it has to revolve around that. richie99 said:
You have provided evidence of a problem (ineffective policing) along with a solution (encourage more reporting) which does nothing to fix the problem.
Bigends provided the original link, which I replied was "A good example of how not to use the information provided by a vulnerable person, perhaps.", as opposed to good examples of what I was talking about beforehand. richie99 said:
It’s possible my logic is flawed but I can’t see the link.
That's because it is flawed and there isn't really a link. The campaign asking for information has nothing to do with those two extreme failings. richie99 said:
So now the residents of South Yorkshire are encouraged to report even more issues so the Police can do what? Carry on doing nothing or actually do something? Has there been a significant increase in competence and resource levels to permit this or is it just a pc publicity campaign which has fortunately backfired?
As above. La Liga said:
WinstonWolf said:
So solving crimes that haven't happened? I guess that's easier than solving burglaries.
There is no excuse for this sort of st when actual crime is still happening. You need to attend a few less diversity seminars and get back to solving crime.
I knew as soon as I had seen you'd replied that you wouldn't have got it. There is no excuse for this sort of s
t when actual crime is still happening. You need to attend a few less diversity seminars and get back to solving crime.Re-read it again.
PC stands for Police Constable, not Politically Correct.
La Liga said:
WinstonWolf said:
I completely understood what you said, hence knowing you've been on one too many appeasing the snowflakes seminars.
PC stands for Police Constable, not Politically Correct.
In your case, particularly clueless. PC stands for Police Constable, not Politically Correct.
Society evolves and changes. Policing must reflect that.
How about cracking on and leave this b
ks until you've got a grip of the basics?Mothersruin said:
La Liga said:
WinstonWolf said:
I completely understood what you said, hence knowing you've been on one too many appeasing the snowflakes seminars.
PC stands for Police Constable, not Politically Correct.
In your case, particularly clueless. PC stands for Police Constable, not Politically Correct.
Society evolves and changes. Policing must reflect that.
How about cracking on and leave this b
ks until you've got a grip of the basics?
I have to say Particularly Clueless sums modern policing priorities up particularly well. Thanks.If people really wanted the police to deal with non-crimes why are SYP getting utterly slated?
It is you who is out of touch, not the thousands who are slating the tweet.
WinstonWolf said:
I have to say Particularly Clueless sums modern policing priorities up particularly well. Thanks.If people really wanted the police to deal with non-crimes why are SYP getting utterly slated?
It is you who is out of touch, not the thousands who are slating the tweet.
Russian Troll Bot said:
WinstonWolf said:
I have to say Particularly Clueless sums modern policing priorities up particularly well. Thanks.If people really wanted the police to deal with non-crimes why are SYP getting utterly slated?
It is you who is out of touch, not the thousands who are slating the tweet.
it probably does, I did feel slightly hurt when I read it...Mothersruin said:
I'd argue that certain unwanted elements of modern society are due to current policing policies.
The fundamentals causes of crime and disorder have little to do with the police. The police are primarily dealing with the outcomes of things like poverty, deprivation, lack of education etc. Mothersruin said:
How about cracking on and leave this bks until you've got a grip of the basics?
Like keeping courts and prisons full to capacity of criminals all the time, you mean? ks until you've got a grip of the basics?Recording non-crime incidents isn't new. This has been going on since the Macpherson report nearly 20 years ago.
WinstonWolf said:
I have to say Particularly Clueless sums modern policing priorities up particularly well. Thanks.
I doubt you have any idea what they are. WinstonWolf said:
If people really wanted the police to deal with non-crimes why are SYP getting utterly slated?
I doubt most people who can't resist clever Orwell Tweets and the like actually understand the subject matter and what the actual aims are. I've explained it several times, and if people don't realise the value of trying to identify and protect vulnerable people, then it doesn't matter as it'll continue to occur. WinstonWolf said:
It is you who is out of touch, not the thousands who are slating the tweet.
The police aren't there to just cater for those who shout the loudest. That's sort of representative of trying to identify the 'silent' vulnerable people most people in society don't consider, nor interact with. Russian Troll Bot said:
Would calling someone "particularity clueless" count as a non-crime hate incident............?
Does Winston perceive my comment is based upon my prejudice towards him because of his race, religion, sexual orientation, disability or because he's transgender?He can answer which diverse strand he fits into
Previous said:
La Liga said:
....After Brexit there was an increase in hostility towards people who had moved to the UK from Poland and other countries. I know of an area that was densely populated by Poles who were being abused and told to 'go home' and other similar things. These incidents didn't amount to crimes, but without proper recording measures for non-crime hate matters, then it'd have been much harder to identify a risk issue (tension between the Poles and locals which could escalate).
Its a radical idea which may not catch on, but the police could try going out on the beat and talking to people (to identify tension).La Liga said:
The police are primarily dealing with the outcomes of things like poverty, deprivation, lack of education etc.
Are there many people in UK suffering from poverty & deprivation? Real poverty & real deprivation? Insufficient food rather than lacking the latest iPhone?Do we not have free education in this country to which kids are not only available but actually compulsory?
La Liga said:
The police aren't there to just cater for those who shout the loudest. That's sort of representative of trying to identify the 'silent' vulnerable people most people in society don't consider, nor interact with.
To paraphrase the labour party, the police are there for the many, not just the few.The majority seem to feel that the police should prioritise real crime before touchy-feely stuff. They don't have your knowledge, experience & unique insights, though, so what do the wishes of the general public matter.
I note that the apparent priorities are inexpensive, easy & safe in comparison to dealing with real crimes- is this just a coincidence?
La Liga said:
Mothersruin said:
I'd argue that certain unwanted elements of modern society are due to current policing policies.
The fundamentals causes of crime and disorder have little to do with the police. The police are primarily dealing with the outcomes of things like poverty, deprivation, lack of education etc. Mothersruin said:
How about cracking on and leave this bks until you've got a grip of the basics?
Like keeping courts and prisons full to capacity of criminals all the time, you mean? ks until you've got a grip of the basics?Recording non-crime incidents isn't new. This has been going on since the Macpherson report nearly 20 years ago.
WinstonWolf said:
I have to say Particularly Clueless sums modern policing priorities up particularly well. Thanks.
I doubt you have any idea what they are. WinstonWolf said:
If people really wanted the police to deal with non-crimes why are SYP getting utterly slated?
I doubt most people who can't resist clever Orwell Tweets and the like actually understand the subject matter and what the actual aims are. I've explained it several times, and if people don't realise the value of trying to identify and protect vulnerable people, then it doesn't matter as it'll continue to occur. WinstonWolf said:
It is you who is out of touch, not the thousands who are slating the tweet.
The police aren't there to just cater for those who shout the loudest. That's sort of representative of trying to identify the 'silent' vulnerable people most people in society don't consider, nor interact with. Russian Troll Bot said:
Would calling someone "particularity clueless" count as a non-crime hate incident............?
Does Winston perceive my comment is based upon my prejudice towards him because of his race, religion, sexual orientation, disability or because he's transgender?He can answer which diverse strand he fits into
king fantastic use of scarce police resources 
La Liga said:
Mothersruin said:
How about cracking on and leave this bks until you've got a grip of the basics?
Like keeping courts and prisons full to capacity of criminals all the time, you mean? ks until you've got a grip of the basics?"To recognise always that the test of police efficiency is the absence of crime and disorder, and not the visible evidence of police action in dealing with them."
Based on this they're failing miserably.
WinstonWolf said:
It still fits the bill for what SYP call a "non-crime hate crime" What a fking fantastic use of scarce police resources
Imagine my surprise, you're wrong again. Unless you perceive it as being motivated by what I previously mentioned. king fantastic use of scarce police resources It's not hard to work out what is required to fall within it.
La Liga said:
WinstonWolf said:
It still fits the bill for what SYP call a "non-crime hate crime" What a fking fantastic use of scarce police resources
Imagine my surprise, you're wrong again. Unless you perceive it as being motivated by what I previously mentioned. king fantastic use of scarce police resources It's not hard to work out what is required to fall within it.
[quote]SYP]Hate can cause a range of emotional responses, including fear, anger and shock. People experience mental and physical well-being issues such as problems sleeping, depression, anxiety and paranoia. Hate hurts and no-one should have to tolerate it
WinstonWolf said:
La Liga said:
WinstonWolf said:
It still fits the bill for what SYP call a "non-crime hate crime" What a fking fantastic use of scarce police resources
Imagine my surprise, you're wrong again. Unless you perceive it as being motivated by what I previously mentioned. king fantastic use of scarce police resources It's not hard to work out what is required to fall within it.
SYP said:
Hate can cause a range of emotional responses, including fear, anger and shock. People experience mental and physical well-being issues such as problems sleeping, depression, anxiety and paranoia. Hate hurts and no-one should have to tolerate it
This is South Yorkshire Police. You know, the Rotherham lot. Call me a reactionary but I'd rather they concentrate on grooming than nasty words.Police activity isn’t binary or mutually exclusive. Multiple things are and have to be addressed at the same time.
La Liga said:
WinstonWolf said:
La Liga said:
WinstonWolf said:
It still fits the bill for what SYP call a "non-crime hate crime" What a fking fantastic use of scarce police resources
Imagine my surprise, you're wrong again. Unless you perceive it as being motivated by what I previously mentioned. king fantastic use of scarce police resources It's not hard to work out what is required to fall within it.
SYP said:
Hate can cause a range of emotional responses, including fear, anger and shock. People experience mental and physical well-being issues such as problems sleeping, depression, anxiety and paranoia. Hate hurts and no-one should have to tolerate it
This is South Yorkshire Police. You know, the Rotherham lot. Call me a reactionary but I'd rather they concentrate on grooming than nasty words.Police activity isn’t binary or mutually exclusive. Multiple things are and have to be addressed at the same time.
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