White Flight and failing Integration
Discussion
andymc said:
so why do Asians/Pakistani men who are supposedly Westernised treat women like s
t?
Because they’re not actually ‘westernised’?t?In my town there is a quite old Italian community including an Italian men’s bar where Italian women will not go! Eventually this culture will cease to exist here I’d imagine, but it’ll take a long time yet.
Cultural traits take a long time to change. If the foreign community is large enough I expect they will never change.
I think Enoch Powell basically said the upshot of large scale migration would be that we would end up with foreign areas within Britain.
Hayek said:
Because they’re not actually ‘westernised’?
In my town there is a quite old Italian community including an Italian men’s bar where Italian women will not go! Eventually this culture will cease to exist here I’d imagine, but it’ll take a long time yet.
Cultural traits take a long time to change. If the foreign community is large enough I expect they will never change.
I think Enoch Powell basically said the upshot of large scale migration would be that we would end up with foreign areas within Britain.
But then it makes you look at what westernised means, women were more things than citizens in Western culture too, and the long slow move to equality is a fairly recent trend, and it's an ongoing process. One has to only look at a few threads in this forum for that. In my town there is a quite old Italian community including an Italian men’s bar where Italian women will not go! Eventually this culture will cease to exist here I’d imagine, but it’ll take a long time yet.
Cultural traits take a long time to change. If the foreign community is large enough I expect they will never change.
I think Enoch Powell basically said the upshot of large scale migration would be that we would end up with foreign areas within Britain.
The UK is also going through a shredding of it's religion, which helps the imbalance, while Muslim immigrants still have that large monkey on their shoulder, even what some might consider a full integration in today's society, that religious/cultural tie will still have large fetters on how far integration in current 'western' ideals can go. And of course they sit well alongside homegrown knuckleheads in their dinosaur view of women.
Halb said:
But then it makes you look at what westernised means, women were more things than citizens in Western culture too, and the long slow move to equality is a fairly recent trend, and it's an ongoing process. One has to only look at a few threads in this forum for that.
The UK is also going through a shredding of it's religion, which helps the imbalance, while Muslim immigrants still have that large monkey on their shoulder, even what some might consider a full integration in today's society, that religious/cultural tie will still have large fetters on how far integration in current 'western' ideals can go. And of course they sit well alongside homegrown knuckleheads in their dinosaur view of women.
There is a large shift away from integration in many many areas, not one (even at snails pace) towards it. This is true in the Uk as well as all areas of Arab/Asian populations. Islam (from these areas) is going backwards towards the middle ages at a rapid and frightening rateThe UK is also going through a shredding of it's religion, which helps the imbalance, while Muslim immigrants still have that large monkey on their shoulder, even what some might consider a full integration in today's society, that religious/cultural tie will still have large fetters on how far integration in current 'western' ideals can go. And of course they sit well alongside homegrown knuckleheads in their dinosaur view of women.
The Dangerous Elk said:
That avoids the very specific point/question, if you cannot answer why please try not to generate a "scatter gun" avoidance of the question.
To be fair it is somewhat of a moronic question. the reason being that Asian/Pakistani men in the UK aren’t more likely to carry out DV than any other community. There are some stats I saw which showed that the average for white women is 1.8% (likely to have suffered DV during any one year), Pakistani women 0.9%, Bangladeshi women 2.3%, the highest rates were Afro-Caribbean which were circa 6%.However my daughter who is a Trainee solicitor specialising in DV cases tells me that that the figures aren’t that reliable because Asian women may be put off from reporting DV for cultural reasons OR simply because they don’t know who/where to report it to. She does say that the link to DV is more to do with socio-economic background and family upbringing. Basically if you’re in a low-paid job, split up from your partner, had kids with different men/women, you’re more likely to be involved in DV. You don’t, as a general rule, get people in stable loving family relationships with good jobs, a decent house, and a support network, coming home p155ed from the pub every night breaking the door down and kicking 7 bells out of their partner.
The Dangerous Elk said:
Alpinestars said:
Or make generalisations about people. The irony.
We are talking about specific communities/communities "habits" and you are making yourself sound ridiculous for even trying that tactic of avoiding the discussion. Of course we are talking in "general terms"Alpinestars said:
Why do Pakistani men [x,y,z]. That's not scattergun at all is it. You've done no discussing, just snide (intellectually deficient) remarks.
Did I say "Pakistani men" ?, nopeThe question you are trying to avoid was in the context of particular communities that are and are becoming larger but more separated from the "western cultural norms" and the increasing move towards a more diverse society we are developing outside of those.
I understand you are desperate to divert towards some stereotypical racist discussion, but that is not happening.
The Dangerous Elk said:
Alpinestars said:
Why do Pakistani men [x,y,z]. That's not scattergun at all is it. You've done no discussing, just snide (intellectually deficient) remarks.
Did I say "Pakistani men" ?, nopeThe question you are trying to avoid was in the context of particular communities that are and are becoming larger but more separated from the "western cultural norms" and the increasing move towards a more diverse society we are developing outside of those.
I understand you are desperate to divert towards some stereotypical racist discussion, but that is not happening.
Integration is a huge issue, as I've said before, if you'd bother to read before reaching for your own scatter gun. It's an issue in both white, and non white communities. Some sections of both communities don't want to integrate and have neighbours from the other community. Do you agree?
The Dangerous Elk said:
Alpinestars said:
No idea. I don't know you.
Why do your comments look like a one way street if that's what you do believe?
Because there are differing reasons and effects and you cannot see past "Racist"Why do your comments look like a one way street if that's what you do believe?
That's the second time you've thrown racist out. Hoping it deflects discussion? Where have I used the word racist inappropriately?
And please talk us through why "differing reasons" makes you only scoff at one side?
Edited by Alpinestars on Wednesday 24th January 21:55
This website is very interesting, showing maps of ethnicity and economic indicators;
http://datashine.org.uk/#table=QS201EW&col=QS2...
Alpinestars said:
Because because because. That clears that up then.
That's the second time you've thrown racist out. Hoping it deflects discussion? Where have I used the word racist inappropriately?
Who said you have used the word ? My accusation is you inferring it to avoid answering any question.That's the second time you've thrown racist out. Hoping it deflects discussion? Where have I used the word racist inappropriately?
Do you agree there are differing reasons for these communities being self-segregated ?
edit: I will ignore the "scoff" comment............oh look a squirrel
Edited by The Dangerous Elk on Wednesday 24th January 21:59
The Dangerous Elk said:
Alpinestars said:
Because because because. That clears that up then.
That's the second time you've thrown racist out. Hoping it deflects discussion? Where have I used the word racist inappropriately?
Who said you have used the word ? My accusation is you inferring it to avoid answering any question.That's the second time you've thrown racist out. Hoping it deflects discussion? Where have I used the word racist inappropriately?
Do you agree there are differing reasons for these communities being self-segregated ?
There are likely to be different reasons for people at an individual level and in some cases for communities as a whole. That doesn't warrant scoffing at one community and not the other. Or do you think it does?
Edited - substitute whateve word in place of scoff. One you like x.
Alpinestars said:
Teflon. You're very Teflon. Your favourite sentence seems to be who said I said that - who me (flutter flutter). Slippery fella.
There are likely to be different reasons for people at an individual level and in some cases for communities as a whole. That doesn't warrant scoffing at one community and not the other. Or do you think it does?
Edited - substitute whateve word in place of scoff. One you like x.
Do you agree there are differing reasons for these communities being self-segregated ?There are likely to be different reasons for people at an individual level and in some cases for communities as a whole. That doesn't warrant scoffing at one community and not the other. Or do you think it does?
Edited - substitute whateve word in place of scoff. One you like x.
You cannot bring yourself to answer can you
The Dangerous Elk said:
Alpinestars said:
Teflon. You're very Teflon. Your favourite sentence seems to be who said I said that - who me (flutter flutter). Slippery fella.
There are likely to be different reasons for people at an individual level and in some cases for communities as a whole That doesn't warrant scoffing at one community and not the other. Or do you think it does?
Edited - substitute whateve word in place of scoff. One you like x.
Do you agree there are differing reasons for these communities being self-segregated ?There are likely to be different reasons for people at an individual level and in some cases for communities as a whole That doesn't warrant scoffing at one community and not the other. Or do you think it does?
Edited - substitute whateve word in place of scoff. One you like x.
You cannot bring yourself to answer can you
Why do you only see it through one community's eyes? Can you bring yourself to answer that?
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