May Vs Corbyn live on the telly,
Discussion
I must be going mad, having watched it I thought May came across quite well.
In public she is definitely not a charismatic top draw performer or presenter. She even appears to have a slighty speech impediment - however she doesn't seem afraid to 'fess up' on certain issues and point out hard choices.
Corbyn was calm and composed and offering the moon on a stick, which is simple. Avoided any proper answers and seems to believe action is never ever needed as you can talk your way out of anything.
There seems to be a really surreal choice this election.
One party is lovely, sweet and can spend, spend, spend for the country and only the really rich nasty people who don't work and steal all your money can pay for it. £48 billion deficit, not a problem - let's just borrow more and even before we start three is a £9 billion hole in the finances. All the old lefty terrorist rhetoric is in the past so don't worry. However in the 70's some of them worked in councils, the home office etc. So that experience is key. All is great.
Vs.
The boo hiss nasty meanies, who have decided the country should at least make an effort to live within our means, grow the economy and carry out the will of the people in leaving the EU. The meany party is trying to balance investment in public services - but recognise that this is hard and hard decisions on where limited money should be spent need to be addressed, and discussed despite the belief it's actually because we have shed loads of spare cash (all the rich people have it) so the meanie party don't want to share it with everyone else.
I'm very much a dull centrist floating voter - I like it there, too far either way is just bad - the French and Greeks have shown this just recently veering left - but some how Corbyn seems to have intelligent people believing the utter crap he is spouting.
Maybe I'm out of touch trying to be in the middle!! My one hope is that even my wife - a public sector worker normally centre left / liberal who has grown up hating the tories can see right through Corbyn, thinks he's a knob and quite likes the dull, down to earth boring calmness that is May.
In public she is definitely not a charismatic top draw performer or presenter. She even appears to have a slighty speech impediment - however she doesn't seem afraid to 'fess up' on certain issues and point out hard choices.
Corbyn was calm and composed and offering the moon on a stick, which is simple. Avoided any proper answers and seems to believe action is never ever needed as you can talk your way out of anything.
There seems to be a really surreal choice this election.
One party is lovely, sweet and can spend, spend, spend for the country and only the really rich nasty people who don't work and steal all your money can pay for it. £48 billion deficit, not a problem - let's just borrow more and even before we start three is a £9 billion hole in the finances. All the old lefty terrorist rhetoric is in the past so don't worry. However in the 70's some of them worked in councils, the home office etc. So that experience is key. All is great.
Vs.
The boo hiss nasty meanies, who have decided the country should at least make an effort to live within our means, grow the economy and carry out the will of the people in leaving the EU. The meany party is trying to balance investment in public services - but recognise that this is hard and hard decisions on where limited money should be spent need to be addressed, and discussed despite the belief it's actually because we have shed loads of spare cash (all the rich people have it) so the meanie party don't want to share it with everyone else.
I'm very much a dull centrist floating voter - I like it there, too far either way is just bad - the French and Greeks have shown this just recently veering left - but some how Corbyn seems to have intelligent people believing the utter crap he is spouting.
Maybe I'm out of touch trying to be in the middle!! My one hope is that even my wife - a public sector worker normally centre left / liberal who has grown up hating the tories can see right through Corbyn, thinks he's a knob and quite likes the dull, down to earth boring calmness that is May.
king useless and hopelessly unworthy of providing some genuine leadership. Mind boggling that the choices are so weak at such a vital time. sanf said:
I must be going mad, having watched it I thought May came across quite well.
In public she is definitely not a charismatic top draw performer or presenter. She even appears to have a slighty speech impediment - however she doesn't seem afraid to 'fess up' on certain issues and point out hard choices.
Corbyn was calm and composed and offering the moon on a stick, which is simple. Avoided any proper answers and seems to believe action is never ever needed as you can talk your way out of anything.
There seems to be a really surreal choice this election.
One party is lovely, sweet and can spend, spend, spend for the country and only the really rich nasty people who don't work and steal all your money can pay for it. £48 billion deficit, not a problem - let's just borrow more and even before we start three is a £9 billion hole in the finances. All the old lefty terrorist rhetoric is in the past so don't worry. However in the 70's some of them worked in councils, the home office etc. So that experience is key. All is great.
Vs.
The boo hiss nasty meanies, who have decided the country should at least make an effort to live within our means, grow the economy and carry out the will of the people in leaving the EU. The meany party is trying to balance investment in public services - but recognise that this is hard and hard decisions on where limited money should be spent need to be addressed, and discussed despite the belief it's actually because we have shed loads of spare cash (all the rich people have it) so the meanie party don't want to share it with everyone else.
I'm very much a dull centrist floating voter - I like it there, too far either way is just bad - the French and Greeks have shown this just recently veering left - but some how Corbyn seems to have intelligent people believing the utter crap he is spouting.
Maybe I'm out of touch trying to be in the middle!! My one hope is that even my wife - a public sector worker normally centre left / liberal who has grown up hating the tories can see right through Corbyn, thinks he's a knob and quite likes the dull, down to earth boring calmness that is May.
Which public sector does your wife work in? In public she is definitely not a charismatic top draw performer or presenter. She even appears to have a slighty speech impediment - however she doesn't seem afraid to 'fess up' on certain issues and point out hard choices.
Corbyn was calm and composed and offering the moon on a stick, which is simple. Avoided any proper answers and seems to believe action is never ever needed as you can talk your way out of anything.
There seems to be a really surreal choice this election.
One party is lovely, sweet and can spend, spend, spend for the country and only the really rich nasty people who don't work and steal all your money can pay for it. £48 billion deficit, not a problem - let's just borrow more and even before we start three is a £9 billion hole in the finances. All the old lefty terrorist rhetoric is in the past so don't worry. However in the 70's some of them worked in councils, the home office etc. So that experience is key. All is great.
Vs.
The boo hiss nasty meanies, who have decided the country should at least make an effort to live within our means, grow the economy and carry out the will of the people in leaving the EU. The meany party is trying to balance investment in public services - but recognise that this is hard and hard decisions on where limited money should be spent need to be addressed, and discussed despite the belief it's actually because we have shed loads of spare cash (all the rich people have it) so the meanie party don't want to share it with everyone else.
I'm very much a dull centrist floating voter - I like it there, too far either way is just bad - the French and Greeks have shown this just recently veering left - but some how Corbyn seems to have intelligent people believing the utter crap he is spouting.
Maybe I'm out of touch trying to be in the middle!! My one hope is that even my wife - a public sector worker normally centre left / liberal who has grown up hating the tories can see right through Corbyn, thinks he's a knob and quite likes the dull, down to earth boring calmness that is May.
Because it's not the x-factor...it's about which party will look after you, your family and your neighbours the best and if you rely on any public service, whether it be schools for your kids, health services for yourselves, or job security for your wife, it's nothing to do with it being May vs. Corbyn but party vs. party.
It's a no-brainer...surely?
johnxjsc1985 said:
Yipper said:
Corbyn being widely declared on Twitter and in the online papers as the clear winner. Calmer and in control. Even Farage tweeted in his favour.
Paxo being slammed as a celebrity pantomime act.
Only positive for May was she performed strong on Brexit. The other ~90% of the show was a car crash. She crumbles under tough questions.
Expect Labour to take the lead in a poll over the next few days.
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/corbyn-paxman-...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4553210/Ma...
you keep peddling this rubbish what planet are you on.Paxo being slammed as a celebrity pantomime act.
Only positive for May was she performed strong on Brexit. The other ~90% of the show was a car crash. She crumbles under tough questions.
Expect Labour to take the lead in a poll over the next few days.
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/corbyn-paxman-...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4553210/Ma...
Apr 2017 (peak of 200):
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/18/theresa...
May 2017 (trough of 2):
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/elec...
And the planet where Labour is predicted to lead the polls later this week
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/ther...
SpeedMattersNot said:
hich public sector does your wife work in?
Because it's not the x-factor...it's about which party will look after you, your family and your neighbours the best and if you rely on any public service, whether it be schools for your kids, health services for yourselves, or job security for your wife, it's nothing to do with it being May vs. Corbyn but party vs. party.
It's a no-brainer...surely?
Indeed. The choice is between those who would wreck the economy (labour) thus damaging our ability to offer a decent public service, and those prudent enough to maintain a good economy that can afford decent public services (tory). An obvious no-brainer.Because it's not the x-factor...it's about which party will look after you, your family and your neighbours the best and if you rely on any public service, whether it be schools for your kids, health services for yourselves, or job security for your wife, it's nothing to do with it being May vs. Corbyn but party vs. party.
It's a no-brainer...surely?
SpeedMattersNot said:
sanf said:
I must be going mad, having watched it I thought May came across quite well.
In public she is definitely not a charismatic top draw performer or presenter. She even appears to have a slighty speech impediment - however she doesn't seem afraid to 'fess up' on certain issues and point out hard choices.
Corbyn was calm and composed and offering the moon on a stick, which is simple. Avoided any proper answers and seems to believe action is never ever needed as you can talk your way out of anything.
There seems to be a really surreal choice this election.
One party is lovely, sweet and can spend, spend, spend for the country and only the really rich nasty people who don't work and steal all your money can pay for it. £48 billion deficit, not a problem - let's just borrow more and even before we start three is a £9 billion hole in the finances. All the old lefty terrorist rhetoric is in the past so don't worry. However in the 70's some of them worked in councils, the home office etc. So that experience is key. All is great.
Vs.
The boo hiss nasty meanies, who have decided the country should at least make an effort to live within our means, grow the economy and carry out the will of the people in leaving the EU. The meany party is trying to balance investment in public services - but recognise that this is hard and hard decisions on where limited money should be spent need to be addressed, and discussed despite the belief it's actually because we have shed loads of spare cash (all the rich people have it) so the meanie party don't want to share it with everyone else.
I'm very much a dull centrist floating voter - I like it there, too far either way is just bad - the French and Greeks have shown this just recently veering left - but some how Corbyn seems to have intelligent people believing the utter crap he is spouting.
Maybe I'm out of touch trying to be in the middle!! My one hope is that even my wife - a public sector worker normally centre left / liberal who has grown up hating the tories can see right through Corbyn, thinks he's a knob and quite likes the dull, down to earth boring calmness that is May.
Which public sector does your wife work in? In public she is definitely not a charismatic top draw performer or presenter. She even appears to have a slighty speech impediment - however she doesn't seem afraid to 'fess up' on certain issues and point out hard choices.
Corbyn was calm and composed and offering the moon on a stick, which is simple. Avoided any proper answers and seems to believe action is never ever needed as you can talk your way out of anything.
There seems to be a really surreal choice this election.
One party is lovely, sweet and can spend, spend, spend for the country and only the really rich nasty people who don't work and steal all your money can pay for it. £48 billion deficit, not a problem - let's just borrow more and even before we start three is a £9 billion hole in the finances. All the old lefty terrorist rhetoric is in the past so don't worry. However in the 70's some of them worked in councils, the home office etc. So that experience is key. All is great.
Vs.
The boo hiss nasty meanies, who have decided the country should at least make an effort to live within our means, grow the economy and carry out the will of the people in leaving the EU. The meany party is trying to balance investment in public services - but recognise that this is hard and hard decisions on where limited money should be spent need to be addressed, and discussed despite the belief it's actually because we have shed loads of spare cash (all the rich people have it) so the meanie party don't want to share it with everyone else.
I'm very much a dull centrist floating voter - I like it there, too far either way is just bad - the French and Greeks have shown this just recently veering left - but some how Corbyn seems to have intelligent people believing the utter crap he is spouting.
Maybe I'm out of touch trying to be in the middle!! My one hope is that even my wife - a public sector worker normally centre left / liberal who has grown up hating the tories can see right through Corbyn, thinks he's a knob and quite likes the dull, down to earth boring calmness that is May.
Because it's not the x-factor...it's about which party will look after you, your family and your neighbours the best and if you rely on any public service, whether it be schools for your kids, health services for yourselves, or job security for your wife, it's nothing to do with it being May vs. Corbyn but party vs. party.
It's a no-brainer...surely?
We're realists. It's not perfect but at least trying to balance the books is sensible - just checked and I think the deficit is actually £52 billion (52 thousand million) - down from £152 billion.
Yes public services are stretched, but so is everyone-including the private sector. We keep being told as a country we're not as efficient in our output as other countries. But all the countries services are working - not perfectly but in a way that works with the money the country has.
My wife teaches, it's a tough, tough gig. But is also about the kids and not the teachers, they sure as hell aren't teaching for money. It's a political football teaching - constantly changing. Gove an utter hate figure but Greening (I think that's right) seems to be steadying things and going the right way.
Where we are - child numbers are increasing, the infant school has just had major investment with pupil numbers increasing. My wife's junior school is having £2 million invested in new class rooms ready for the numbers rise. They have just had another non English speaking pupil arrive - 5 this year in 1 class, but are able to get the support needed for these children, translators etc. From the council while they settle in. Resources are there - stretched but there.
Yes it's not perfect, and if the country had loads of spare cash, fair enough. We don't, we're facing the s**t storm that is Brexit and running up an ever increasing deficit is not how to go about trying to get things right - otherwise our grandkids will be looking at us wondering what the hell we did.
I'm happy to admit I'm not the most political person and I may be out of touch, but offering everything to everyone just seems a great way to upset everyone in the long run.
What we think is fair and reasonable (certainly not perfect) reasoning, yes, X Factor reasoning, no chance.
s2art said:
SpeedMattersNot said:
hich public sector does your wife work in?
Because it's not the x-factor...it's about which party will look after you, your family and your neighbours the best and if you rely on any public service, whether it be schools for your kids, health services for yourselves, or job security for your wife, it's nothing to do with it being May vs. Corbyn but party vs. party.
It's a no-brainer...surely?
Indeed. The choice is between those who would wreck the economy (labour) thus damaging our ability to offer a decent public service, and those prudent enough to maintain a good economy that can afford decent public services (tory). An obvious no-brainer.Because it's not the x-factor...it's about which party will look after you, your family and your neighbours the best and if you rely on any public service, whether it be schools for your kids, health services for yourselves, or job security for your wife, it's nothing to do with it being May vs. Corbyn but party vs. party.
It's a no-brainer...surely?
The conservatives benefit/ed from improved public services and enhanced infrastructure, without investing any extra into it.
You're right, no-brainer.
Tories are cutting public services, including education and NHS...it's not good enough. Time to bring us into the future, not drag us back into the past.
Corbyn dominated this evening. Fact.
Edited by SpeedMattersNot on Monday 29th May 23:57
SpeedMattersNot said:
s2art said:
SpeedMattersNot said:
hich public sector does your wife work in?
Because it's not the x-factor...it's about which party will look after you, your family and your neighbours the best and if you rely on any public service, whether it be schools for your kids, health services for yourselves, or job security for your wife, it's nothing to do with it being May vs. Corbyn but party vs. party.
It's a no-brainer...surely?
Indeed. The choice is between those who would wreck the economy (labour) thus damaging our ability to offer a decent public service, and those prudent enough to maintain a good economy that can afford decent public services (tory). An obvious no-brainer.Because it's not the x-factor...it's about which party will look after you, your family and your neighbours the best and if you rely on any public service, whether it be schools for your kids, health services for yourselves, or job security for your wife, it's nothing to do with it being May vs. Corbyn but party vs. party.
It's a no-brainer...surely?
The conservatives benefit/ed from improved public services and enhanced infrastructure, without investing any extra into it.
You're right, no-brainer.
Tories are cutting public services, including education and NHS...it's not good enough. Time to bring us into the future, not drag us back into the past.
Corbyn dominated this evening. Fact.
Edited by SpeedMattersNot on Monday 29th May 23:57
SpeedMattersNot said:
s2art said:
SpeedMattersNot said:
hich public sector does your wife work in?
Because it's not the x-factor...it's about which party will look after you, your family and your neighbours the best and if you rely on any public service, whether it be schools for your kids, health services for yourselves, or job security for your wife, it's nothing to do with it being May vs. Corbyn but party vs. party.
It's a no-brainer...surely?
Indeed. The choice is between those who would wreck the economy (labour) thus damaging our ability to offer a decent public service, and those prudent enough to maintain a good economy that can afford decent public services (tory). An obvious no-brainer.Because it's not the x-factor...it's about which party will look after you, your family and your neighbours the best and if you rely on any public service, whether it be schools for your kids, health services for yourselves, or job security for your wife, it's nothing to do with it being May vs. Corbyn but party vs. party.
It's a no-brainer...surely?
The conservatives benefit/ed from improved public services and enhanced infrastructure, without investing any extra into it.
You're right, no-brainer.
Tories are cutting public services, including education and NHS...it's not good enough. Time to bring us into the future, not drag us back into the past.
Corbyn dominated this evening. Fact.
Edited by SpeedMattersNot on Monday 29th May 23:57
A quick scan of the Daily Wail's story on the TV debate, 3hrs after the show, a very pro-Tory site, looking at the (unscientific) green vs. red arrows clicked by posters, suggests Corbyn won by a fairly big margin.
Corbyn = 65%;
May = 35%.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4553210/Ma...
Corbyn = 65%;
May = 35%.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4553210/Ma...
gothatway said:
SpeedMattersNot said:
Corbyn dominated this evening. Fact.
Always an amusing ploy, using the word "Fact" standing alone as though that will close down the debate, when the word you should use is "Opinion".Polls exist sharing my opinion that conclude he dominated. Which considering the vast majority is against him and indeed his party, pretty much concludes it as FACT. Sorry!
Yipper said:
A quick scan of the Daily Wail's story on the TV debate, 3hrs after the show, a very pro-Tory site, looking at the (unscientific) green vs. red arrows clicked by posters, suggests Corbyn won by a fairly big margin.
Corbyn = 65%;
May = 35%.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4553210/Ma...
The Mail can hardly be used as a reference material. Last year the Momentum losers were spending every minute of the day on there red arrowing any negativity towards their beloved Corbyn. I don't put any faith in the accuracy of the popularity arrows in the comments section of a joke newspaper site. Neither should you.Corbyn = 65%;
May = 35%.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4553210/Ma...
Just to clarify a couple of further things (for the sake of openness I am a Labour Party member and 2x Corbyn for leader voter).
Quite a few posters pointing out that JC didn't have his figures; everything in the Labour manifesto has been costed and documented. Whether you believe the tax take which actually cover what is in the costings document is another matter but the Tories haven't even bothered to give this information.
Secondly, as far as 'saddling the country with more debt,' Labour have committed to reduce the deficit and balance the books for day to day spending at some point in the parliament, I can't remember exactly off the top of my head. They will borrow to invest but that is for major infrastructure projects etc which by nature we can afford and will ultimately pay for themselves.
So I would say by all means voice your opinion that you don't agree Labour can deliver their promises, but I think it's a bit harsh to play the 'land of milk and honey card' when they've done more work than the Tory party to actually identify where and how things will be paid for.
ETA: On the debate itself I do think Corbyn looked better, if only because he was reasonable enough to dispel his image as a bumbling buffoon the Sun likes to put across. May does seem to get very flustered and her repeated U turns seem to be coming back to bite her. The main mistake the Tories have made (although I think Abbott apart the Lab campaign has been strong) is to create a personality cult around TM and then realise she can't really engage with people/make a particularly convincing case for her policies.
Quite a few posters pointing out that JC didn't have his figures; everything in the Labour manifesto has been costed and documented. Whether you believe the tax take which actually cover what is in the costings document is another matter but the Tories haven't even bothered to give this information.
Secondly, as far as 'saddling the country with more debt,' Labour have committed to reduce the deficit and balance the books for day to day spending at some point in the parliament, I can't remember exactly off the top of my head. They will borrow to invest but that is for major infrastructure projects etc which by nature we can afford and will ultimately pay for themselves.
So I would say by all means voice your opinion that you don't agree Labour can deliver their promises, but I think it's a bit harsh to play the 'land of milk and honey card' when they've done more work than the Tory party to actually identify where and how things will be paid for.
ETA: On the debate itself I do think Corbyn looked better, if only because he was reasonable enough to dispel his image as a bumbling buffoon the Sun likes to put across. May does seem to get very flustered and her repeated U turns seem to be coming back to bite her. The main mistake the Tories have made (although I think Abbott apart the Lab campaign has been strong) is to create a personality cult around TM and then realise she can't really engage with people/make a particularly convincing case for her policies.
Edited by TomTheTyke on Tuesday 30th May 03:32
SpeedMattersNot said:
...it's about which party will look after you...
It's a no-brainer...surely?
Yup. Don't vote for the party that destroys the economy every single time they get near it. You can't pay for services when 'there's no money left'. In any event no it's really not about which party will 'look after' me and my family, its about which party just lets me look after myself. It's certainly true that if you have no self respect and just want hand outs it's a no brainer. It's a no-brainer...surely?
Edited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 30th May 05:35
TomTheTyke said:
ETA: On the debate itself I do think Corbyn looked better, if only because he was reasonable enough to dispel his image as a bumbling buffoon the Sun likes to put across. May does seem to get very flustered and her repeated U turns seem to be coming back to bite her. The main mistake the Tories have made (although I think Abbott apart the Lab campaign has been strong) is to create a personality cult around TM and then realise she can't really engage with people/make a particularly convincing case for her policies.
Whilst I suspect we may disagree politically, I think the above is spot on. May just isn't very good. Edited by TomTheTyke on Tuesday 30th May 03:32
These tv debates are so pointless. We aren't voting for a president, we are voting for a party to run the country. These people for example http://www.labour.org.uk/people/filter/c/shadow-ca...
W124 said:
Whilst I suspect we may disagree politically, I think the above is spot on. May just isn't very good.
Which is presumably why she was advised to avoid a face to face debate at all costs?She does seem particularly flaky & not really composed at all. When you think about all the flack that Corbyn has taken since being elected leader, and the comparative free ride that May has had, she really should be pretty relaxed, not crumbling at the first sign of trouble.
zygalski said:
Which is presumably why she was advised to avoid a face to face debate at all costs?
She does seem particularly flaky & not really composed at all. When you think about all the flack that Corbyn has taken since being elected leader, and the comparative free ride that May has had, she really should be pretty relaxed, not crumbling at the first sign of trouble.
We only vote for the political party, not their leader, hence why the programme was fairly useless. Unfortunately, as leaders, they're both less than perfect but many won't vote Labour when they traditionally raise taxes - and then increase benefits to the workshy.She does seem particularly flaky & not really composed at all. When you think about all the flack that Corbyn has taken since being elected leader, and the comparative free ride that May has had, she really should be pretty relaxed, not crumbling at the first sign of trouble.
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